The Weekly Debate : #1

Hello, there fellow T11 members. Get ready to debate because the first debate topic is here and I am ready to see some discussion here.

This first question has to do with someone hopefully all of us have heard of before. David Blaine. He recently had his latest TV special " Dive of Death." After that special there was a lot of things being asked around here. People weren't sure if he was starting to do more escapes and less magic. Well, I've been thinking and I know myopinion. Here is the qestion:

"IS DAVID BLAINE A MAGICIAN STILL OR HAS HE BECOME AN ENDURANCE ARTIST?"
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My answer is below.
Dylan P.

THE GREAT DEBATER OF THE WEEK: VISUALARTIST
 
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I feel that at the beginning of Blaines carreer he was an amazing magician. One of a kind. He was great at street magic and got tons of people in to it. However, as his fame increased he wanted to do bigger things. So he beganb to do escapes. Slowly, these snuck into his mind and it became the bases of everything he does. He still does magic but I would say he is definetly more of an escape artist now.
 
Apr 27, 2008
1,805
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Norway
I believe David Blaine is still to be considered a magician, for he has, up to now - not techniqally 'escaped' form anywhere, he has simply proven his endurance by setting his body to it's limits.

This is just the technical aspect.

Dictionary.com states that
"an entertainer who is skilled in producing illusion by sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; conjurer." is a magician.

During the Dive of Death special, he showed various peroformance videos, and one of the most striking was when he went to New Orleans, where he performed to an unlucky family who had been direly affected by the drastic weather. It was one of the most impresive and heart warming magic I have ever seen, as he 'connected' with the audience on a level unatainable otherwise.

I believe that, although he was fascinated by Harry Houdini as a child (and presumably, still is), he has a true gift for connecting with his audiences worldwide on a personal level, be them Asian, African American, Caucasian - he reduces everyone to a state of emotional trance.
 
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Nov 4, 2008
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David Blaine is the person who got me started into the great thing called magic, and I would say he is still a magacian, but maybe we don't see him perform all of his magic, because on the whole people probably like seeing stunts more than magic. He was an amazing magacian, far better than Criss Angel (I shouldn't have said that lol), and still is. For all we know he could be doing a big magic only T.V. show next, or not. And whatever David does, I will still enjoy his magic, and his feats of strength, because he is likable like that.
 
Feb 27, 2008
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Grand prairie TX
Well the thing is,david hasnt really escaped from anything yet.
He is an endurance artist.
His new show had tons of great magic and from a laymens prespective,really amazing stuff.
Many of my acquintances have discussed his magic far more than his stunt.
His brand of magic is at a more personal,emotional even artistic level than most performers.
 
Oct 17, 2007
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Aussie NSW
I believe he is a magician but he pulls off endurance feets.

like said before he techniquely hasnt "Escaped" from anywhere.
He held his breath under water he stayed in icehe hung upside down.

He might attempt an escape we dont know but i would consider him a magician.
 
Aug 31, 2007
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David Blaine is a politician and will be running for president in 2012.

I think the real question to this is, what does it matter of his title? Can't he be both? Sorry to be a downer but this question has no real thought put into it.

Sypris - w0rd?¿
 
Sep 1, 2007
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Well, let's look way back to the largest semblance of a definition of the term "magician" that we know of. Jean Eugene Robert-Houdin, the father of modern magic, said "a magician is an actor playing the part of a magician." By that definition, I think that Blaine is no longer a magician. Because what Blaine does is not acting. It' real.

When he does magic he is a magician because what he's doing is not possible, and yet he makes it seem real. That's the magician's job.

So, in short, he is and is not a magician. He is full of contradictions, which I suppose makes him a sort of magical person.

That's what I think of him.
 
Aug 31, 2007
98
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David Blane is a magician by definition, and he is not an escape artist as he has never done an escape. I don't see what's left to debate.

That sums it up pretty much. I'm all for these great debates but put some time into the questions.

Sypris - Master Debater
 
Feb 27, 2008
2,342
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Grand prairie TX
Well, let's look way back to the largest semblance of a definition of the term "magician" that we know of. Jean Eugene Robert-Houdin, the father of modern magic, said "a magician is an actor playing the part of a magician." By that definition, I think that Blaine is no longer a magician. Because what Blaine does is not acting. It' real.

When he does magic he is a magician because what he's doing is not possible, and yet he makes it seem real. That's the magician's job.

So, in short, he is and is not a magician. He is full of contradictions, which I suppose makes him a sort of magical person.

That's what I think of him.

While i fully respect robert-houdin, I dont think that just because he said something,it automatically makes it right. Magic can mean alot of different things for different people. Or for this matter,the definition of what a magician is supposed to do. If he does magic then thats what he is.
 
David Blaine is the person who got me started into the great thing called magic, and I would say he is still a magacian, but maybe we don't see him perform all of his magic, because on the whole people probably like seeing stunts more than magic. He was an amazing magacian, far better than Criss Angel (I shouldn't have said that lol), and still is. For all we know he could be doing a big magic only T.V. show next, or not. And whatever David does, I will still enjoy his magic, and his feats of strength, because he is likable like that.

I really don't like his stunts at all. They all bore me to death to say the least. And I am going to point this out right now. That time he was frozen in ice, that was all one big setup and illusion. Enough said. I feel that people would rather see him do the coolest trick possible rather than hang upside down fom a building for 99 days and come down every hour for water and a med check.

Dylan P.
 
David Blaine is a politician and will be running for president in 2012.

I think the real question to this is, what does it matter of his title? Can't he be both? Sorry to be a downer but this question has no real thought put into it.

Sypris - w0rd?¿


Exactly! This is what I want people to do. Debate about everything in this forum. This is a greath question you asked and to tell you the truth I made this question up in 5 minutes.

Yes he could be both but what I should have said is "Is he more of an Escape/ Endurance Atirst or a magician.

Dylan P.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
A magician or an endurance artist.

I simply put this to you: Why must these two terms be mutually exclusive?

So he stopped performing magic for the camera. To suggest that he is no longer a magician is to suggest that he no longer performs magic at all, which I would say is not the case. If I performed rarely, I would still be a magician. Simultaneously, he performs feats of endurance. In this sense, he is also a performer, an "endurance artist" as submitted by the debate question.

He is hence neither a or b but a and b.
 
A magician or an endurance artist.

I simply put this to you: Why must these two terms be mutually exclusive?

So he stopped performing magic for the camera. To suggest that he is no longer a magician is to suggest that he no longer performs magic at all, which I would say is not the case. If I performed rarely, I would still be a magician. Simultaneously, he performs feats of endurance. In this sense, he is also a performer, an "endurance artist" as submitted by the debate question.

He is hence neither a or b but a and b.

Good point. So then, share your opinion of why he doesn't perform so much for the camera anymore. Change the direction of this debate and try and swing it in your favor. You have almost convinced me.
 
D

Deleted member 2755

Guest
I actually just recently had a discussion about this with a friend.

David Blaine is as much of a magician as he has always been. He has done many stunts in the past such as his "Frozen in Time" special. (I believe that was the name.)

Why does he do stunts? Why does Criss Angel do stunts? Why is it that the big TV magicians need to do stunts? The reason is simple.

Media Coverage.

By doing a stunt such as "The Dive of Death", he is obviously putting himself out there. He is just hanging upside down in Central Park where anyone can go see him. By hanging upside down for 3 days and saying how he is going to do "The Dive of Death", there is a sense of danger. Considering its done LIVE on television, its bound to get the media's attention. By getting the media's attention, you get more views for your show.

Blaine also likes doing different big stunts I believe to further connect to his fans. He can't perform card magic for everyone across the country. However, by doing these big stunts, you can come from 6 hours away just to see Blaine upside down, in a block of ice, or in a giant sphere of water... and in PERSON.

Blaine is the same magician he has always been. I think he does these stunts to get more attention/viewers.

-Doug
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
To be honest I don't really care why he does it. I just think it's his choice, and his prerogative, and if the TV execs are willing to fund that sorta stuff for specials, go ahead. Magic specials have been around for a while. It could be any number of reasons. It could be a personal choice based on interest, it could be because someone wanted a change from a magic special on tv - stunts give a different sort of publicity coverage, and in a performer's world, it's all about the media. Easier to get a bunch of reporters if you're standing still doing a feat than walking around in bars shooting magic tricks. It's hard to tell his specific decision choices, it could be a combination of factors, and probably is.
 
Aliright, I have seen enough posts that have convince me that David Blaine is just as much a magician as an endurance artist. I really don't want to give up on this debate but I think that there is no arguing with some of these facts.

Dylan P.
 
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