This post has been edited due to the amazing responses and assistance I have received here... you guys are awesome! Cheers...
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TheMagicCafe...
- Thread starter AshleyHall
- Start date
Because the Cafe desperately tries to establish an elite air about their forums by making every registrant unique to the person who creates it. By denying free web emails they, at least in theory, prevent users from easily creating false accounts or multiple accounts.
In my most honest and humblest of opinions the Cafe is about 10 years behind the technology curve, and offers nothing of service, gain, or advantage that you can't find here at Theory11 or other popular magician community websites, and find it in higher quality abundance.
The cafe may have a lot of magician members but the majority of them appear to be arm chair weekend wizards who are more amateur than anything else. The cafe also seems to have this stigma about it that kisses up to "names" in the industry all the while ignoring (or cutting down) anyone else. There is certainly an "old boys" clique there that isn't worth the time trying to penetrate. Honestly if I didn't use the cafe as a means of posting my reviews where I know buyers will read them I wouldn't waste my time with that place.
In my most honest and humblest of opinions the Cafe is about 10 years behind the technology curve, and offers nothing of service, gain, or advantage that you can't find here at Theory11 or other popular magician community websites, and find it in higher quality abundance.
The cafe may have a lot of magician members but the majority of them appear to be arm chair weekend wizards who are more amateur than anything else. The cafe also seems to have this stigma about it that kisses up to "names" in the industry all the while ignoring (or cutting down) anyone else. There is certainly an "old boys" clique there that isn't worth the time trying to penetrate. Honestly if I didn't use the cafe as a means of posting my reviews where I know buyers will read them I wouldn't waste my time with that place.
You forgot to mention that the place is a freaking maze (Do they REALLY need a subcategory for LITERALLY everything?), as well as a eye sore that looks god awful. What's sad about it is, a simple redesign of the cafe would take them 10 min at the most to turn into something that doesn't cause you to feel like you're developing a tumor from browsing it. It's rather ironic how I've seen websites and forums designed by 13 year old's based on Anime that probably took the kids around 30 min to design, and THOSE looked better than the cafe, which is supposedly designed by a "Professional".
I am signed up with the cafe but don't really post anything. People seem pretty angry over there. But I do look at the forums and search around. So knowledge is knowledge doesn't really matter to me were I would get it. I have learned some pretty nice things too. I found one of the best threads was the guest magician one. It has some good magicians like David Williamson and etc. I found that useful.
I find that the communities at say theory11, Blue Crown, Ellusionist, or Dan and Dave are much smaller. When I ask for help the advice I get are from people who are familiar with the kind of magic I do. People who embrace the changes that are coming over magic. I have a magic cafe account and without being too negative I have had very few meaningful experiences. Most the time I end up disagreeing with what seems like the majority of posters or reading about the latest argument about how we like the "old Sankey" but don't like the "new".
I agree with this, also if you are looking for reviews there are a handful of good and bad reviews on a variety of dvds and aparatus.
It is an interesting place. I only joined because I released my first book (a deck vanish) and the companies carrying my book encouraged me to join. So we start a thread about the book, comments start trickling in, reviews are good. The thread then starts really hopping and generating a lot of positive buzz. Then, out of nowhere, and with no explanation, the thread vanishes. about a day or two later a "special guest" shows up and it just happens to be a guy who sells a competing deck vanish. It could have just been a coincidence, perhaps some one showed up and started flaming on the thread, I really don't know? It did seem suspicious.
Sadly, if you want to start selling your ideas in magic you kind of have to play their game. So with some up coming releases and a new website I just keep my mouth shut and say, "Your house, your rules."
The good news is that there are a lot of really cool people over there and you get a very broad spectrum of magicians. So as a famous Taoist philosopher once wrote...
Sadly, if you want to start selling your ideas in magic you kind of have to play their game. So with some up coming releases and a new website I just keep my mouth shut and say, "Your house, your rules."
The good news is that there are a lot of really cool people over there and you get a very broad spectrum of magicians. So as a famous Taoist philosopher once wrote...
A Wee Bit of History . . . the Lord of the Manner started that site by first claiming he was on his death-bed e.g loads of people came to support him but at the same time he not only culled members registrations from other, well established forums, he totally reproduced their set-up --- the KJMagic Forum being hardest hit on this issue (I was a moderator for Kevin at the time). Adding insult to all this injury, Lord Fauntleroy the faux "I'm on my death-bed" host of the cafe wasn't just good friends with several noted thieves and bootleggers of top end magic (Major Illusions no less) the was one of their strongest on-line advocates and from that point forward the cafe has been a kind of protected haven for numerous others that have massive distribution and horse-trade networks via which tons of illegal copies of recently released material swamp the market, causing your up-front purchase prices to be excessively high in that authors know that they have roughly 60 days to make their cash before the bottom feeders win out.
While some of these negatives have been carefully restructured and better concealed one element hasn't -- the Brown Nosers Syndrome. The great PooBah leading the way when it comes to sticking his nose as deeply as possible up the hind-side of magic notables. Sadly his schmoozing and butt kissing has opened some doors for him including a feature in MAGIC which seriously turns my stomach. The funny side of this however is how there are two sides to this particular coin; the VIPs and now the lowly dude just starting out have all discovered the marketing power of the Cafe community which is why it is so popular; this is the place in which more books and new effects get introduced on line and the developers see the quickest and strongest initial gains . . . a fact already mentioned in this thread.
The Fascist Management Tactics and heavy-handedness alongside "rules" that seem more rigidly enforced on some over others and by certain "staff" members more than others as lead to more than a few "spin-off" sites as well as a tongue-n-cheek society of folks who are proud of the fact that they got booted off the Cafe because they spoke their mind -- the truth and the facts about things. While some, like Mark Lewis, have made amends and gone back to the cafe (to sell books) after a long and fun run of sneaking in under new identities only to stir mischief once again. . . let's say that it's become a hobby by many that know they were booted simply because they refuse the kiss the tukkis of various egos including the "host" of the site.
YES, there is a plethora of quality knowledge that can be found on the Cafe and yes, there are some great and quite experienced souls involved with the place. Sadly, for every one of them you'll find 5 know-it-alls who've never done a real show but know far more than any working pro and then at least 10 novices that fall prey to the B.S. over the facts. All of this before we start dealing with the "politics" of the place and how you may Mr. #1 great guy one day and find yourself booted out rudely, without the dignity of an explanation let alone a means by which to challenge said course of action. What's worse, any one of the "Management" team can boot you for whatever reason they so desire to do so. . . especially if you don't see things their way (and that includes politics, life-style situations and a handful of other odds & ends).
Smaller, more tight-nit forums are, in my opinion, the best. One of my "homes" on line is a little known site with about a dozen active members, all of whom have significant levels of experience and little tolerance when it comes to the time wasters -- "kids" that just want to learn a trick or pick your brain clean vs. those willing to do some honest footwork (I've seen a hint of the latter here and tremendous strides over at E, I can't say that about a lot of the sites that cater to the new generation, but that's why I choose to be a bit more active here vs. a few years ago when things were getting carved out).
Forums and their structures are changing for the better; the day of the mega-forum is in the wane as they would say, because YOUR generation has matured and is now looking for quality and validated resources vs. arm-chair experts and theory. You've matured in life as well and no longer have the time to waste, wading through the silliness and sublime just to find that one little nugget of insight that solves an issue or shines new light on things that take you well down the road in defining yourself as being more than a hobbyist or irritating trickster.
TO THE STAFF . . . sorry for my politically incorrectness here but when it comes to the Cafe I have a very pronounced set of reasons for not being supportive. I consider it a dangerous place rife with politics and a specific agenda.
While some of these negatives have been carefully restructured and better concealed one element hasn't -- the Brown Nosers Syndrome. The great PooBah leading the way when it comes to sticking his nose as deeply as possible up the hind-side of magic notables. Sadly his schmoozing and butt kissing has opened some doors for him including a feature in MAGIC which seriously turns my stomach. The funny side of this however is how there are two sides to this particular coin; the VIPs and now the lowly dude just starting out have all discovered the marketing power of the Cafe community which is why it is so popular; this is the place in which more books and new effects get introduced on line and the developers see the quickest and strongest initial gains . . . a fact already mentioned in this thread.
The Fascist Management Tactics and heavy-handedness alongside "rules" that seem more rigidly enforced on some over others and by certain "staff" members more than others as lead to more than a few "spin-off" sites as well as a tongue-n-cheek society of folks who are proud of the fact that they got booted off the Cafe because they spoke their mind -- the truth and the facts about things. While some, like Mark Lewis, have made amends and gone back to the cafe (to sell books) after a long and fun run of sneaking in under new identities only to stir mischief once again. . . let's say that it's become a hobby by many that know they were booted simply because they refuse the kiss the tukkis of various egos including the "host" of the site.
YES, there is a plethora of quality knowledge that can be found on the Cafe and yes, there are some great and quite experienced souls involved with the place. Sadly, for every one of them you'll find 5 know-it-alls who've never done a real show but know far more than any working pro and then at least 10 novices that fall prey to the B.S. over the facts. All of this before we start dealing with the "politics" of the place and how you may Mr. #1 great guy one day and find yourself booted out rudely, without the dignity of an explanation let alone a means by which to challenge said course of action. What's worse, any one of the "Management" team can boot you for whatever reason they so desire to do so. . . especially if you don't see things their way (and that includes politics, life-style situations and a handful of other odds & ends).
Smaller, more tight-nit forums are, in my opinion, the best. One of my "homes" on line is a little known site with about a dozen active members, all of whom have significant levels of experience and little tolerance when it comes to the time wasters -- "kids" that just want to learn a trick or pick your brain clean vs. those willing to do some honest footwork (I've seen a hint of the latter here and tremendous strides over at E, I can't say that about a lot of the sites that cater to the new generation, but that's why I choose to be a bit more active here vs. a few years ago when things were getting carved out).
Forums and their structures are changing for the better; the day of the mega-forum is in the wane as they would say, because YOUR generation has matured and is now looking for quality and validated resources vs. arm-chair experts and theory. You've matured in life as well and no longer have the time to waste, wading through the silliness and sublime just to find that one little nugget of insight that solves an issue or shines new light on things that take you well down the road in defining yourself as being more than a hobbyist or irritating trickster.
TO THE STAFF . . . sorry for my politically incorrectness here but when it comes to the Cafe I have a very pronounced set of reasons for not being supportive. I consider it a dangerous place rife with politics and a specific agenda.
I have found the coin section to be very helpful. I've posted a few videos to get critiqued and have found that most of replies were very helpful. They didn't all like my handling, but they explained why and posted many suggestions. I would even go back and forth with a few members via PM where they would send me a video of their handling, or simply just give me really good points, as they have been at it longer than myself.
I didn't post that video here, because there are very few people that frequent the coin section. Although I know that I would get great feedback from some (I did PM Draven and got his honest opinion..thanks again!)
That being said, there are plenty of things that aren't the best. I feel like I get a spam PM from the head guy every week! Apprently if he likes it, he'll PM all the members and let the know about it. Not my favorite.
Overall, I have learned a ton from some of the members over there, specifically the coin guys.
I didn't post that video here, because there are very few people that frequent the coin section. Although I know that I would get great feedback from some (I did PM Draven and got his honest opinion..thanks again!)
That being said, there are plenty of things that aren't the best. I feel like I get a spam PM from the head guy every week! Apprently if he likes it, he'll PM all the members and let the know about it. Not my favorite.
Overall, I have learned a ton from some of the members over there, specifically the coin guys.
I find it hit or miss, but the hits are monumental... Any time Whit Haydn talks about magic theory, it's worth its weight in gold.
The coin section and the busking ones are usually quite worthwhile.
I get far more from it than any other site.
The coin section and the busking ones are usually quite worthwhile.
I get far more from it than any other site.
You don't need the Cafe to follow and talk to the legends though... Facebook and Twitter have made antiquated forums like the Cafe obsolete.
Whit "Pop" Haydn is very VERY active on Facebook (and a good friend!). I would highly recommend you search him out and follow him on there.
Whit "Pop" Haydn is very VERY active on Facebook (and a good friend!). I would highly recommend you search him out and follow him on there.
Thete's far more from him on the Magic Cafe. His recent thread on character is brilliant, and not really anywhere else.
Whit is one of the more generous guys out there and a fantastic human being.
I hope everyone understands that I do give the slime pit credit where it is due; there are some great people over there and an uncanny sense of access when it comes to information. But in my book there's just too much pettiness and ego gumming up the cogs and far too many "questionable factors" tied to the place where Piracy and "black market" are concerned.
I hope everyone understands that I do give the slime pit credit where it is due; there are some great people over there and an uncanny sense of access when it comes to information. But in my book there's just too much pettiness and ego gumming up the cogs and far too many "questionable factors" tied to the place where Piracy and "black market" are concerned.
I usually find a glowing review about any book or dvd, I am considering purchasing, at the cafe. *rolls eyes*
I also found that people there tend to believe it is wrong to learn from a DVD. I guess they aren't aware of vark and the different learning styles.
I also found that people there tend to believe it is wrong to learn from a DVD. I guess they aren't aware of vark and the different learning styles.
I use the cafe for the Lets Make a Deal section. I have gotten some hard to find stuff there at good prices. There are some nice people on there but very few. I find myself reading the Not very Magical but Still section of the cafe. Less bull to deal with