theory11 deck disappointment

Discussion in 'Product Questions and Reviews' started by Bill Charlton, May 23, 2010.

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  1. I bought a few Guardians and Centurions from a very reputable card shop and I must say that they are of very poor quality.When I opened the Guardians , they clumped right out of the box and warped in all directions.I also could not fan them.After second thoughts , I opened the Centurions , with hope that it would be better than my Guardians.However , they still clump like the guardians but not as bad so I decided to put it aside on my shelf.About a few weeks later , I opened the Centurions , and to my horror , parts of the decks were warped like nobody's business and the deck was literally half-destroyed.

    I think that Theory 11 should at least use the BASIC printing press because these decks do not seem to even match the quality of normal Bicycle Rider Backs.I really hope that Theory 11 will produce better quality decks but for now , I am not buying anymore Theory 11 deck untill it can be proved that Theory 11 decks are quality decks.I do not mind playing more for Ellusionist decks because they are quality decks.Theory 11 can protest how high quality their decks are but in the end , these are all lies and over-hype to me.

    Thank you for taking your time to read this.
  2. i have both decks bought directly from T11 and have no complaints whatsoever. dont know man
  3. Then it looks like they failed to guarantee the quality of every deck they make.
  4. The first run of Guardians clumped badly, however, the centurions have always been fine as well as every deck of guardians after that I've used. Perhaps it has something to do with the climate you are in or if you left them somewhere were they experienced a rapid temp change? Not sure. Submit a ticket if you feel like you got a dud tho. I'm sure they will help you out.
  5. Bill,

    Appreciate your review and sincerity. However, to correct the statements made in your post, all of our decks - every single one since September of 2007 - is printed on the casino (web) press at USPCC. Unlike many other manufacturers, we do not utilize the sheet fed press (which is far inferior in quality and durability).

    However, that said, we only control the manufacturing process of those decks that we directly distribute. Several of our decks are sold in mainstream retail stores (Walmart, Target, Barnes and Noble, CVS, Walgreens), and those decks are produced under license by USPCC. We do not control the manufacturing process of those decks, as they are not printed under our authority.

    For guarantee of quality, as mentioned by jrobarts, we recommend purchase directly from theory11. For Guardians and Centurions especially, we print those decks in large runs on the web press and have seen nothing but impeccable quality. The two decks you mentioned could have been spoiled due to a number of factors - moisture damage, humidity, shipping - unfortunately outside of our control. They are, after all, made of paper - not steel - and can be damaged through a multitude of mediums.

    Nevertheless, we certainly apologize for the situation and encourage you to give our decks another shot. While you may pay twice as much for custom decks at other retailers, they're being printed on the same press in the same processes as ours. The only difference is that your wallet will be $5 lighter per deck. ;)
  6. #6 William Draven, May 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2010
    I've bought a few T11 decks before, and with no problems. So I guess I just proved that they can produce good quality.

    I don't know why you think you're justified in posting this high and mighty rant. Yes I know it sucks to pay good money for a product only to find out that it is defective, but your flying insults at a company that really isn't at fault.

    Mistakes happen. Sometimes a bad batch gets printed. That's life. It's not like Bayme is sitting there watching every deck get printed and cut. That's probably all done at the US Playing Card Company factory. In fact I really doubt T11 has much say in the quality control inspection that should be done at the local level. I don't see you going over to the US Playing Card Factory forum and complaining to them, hell they're the ones who are probably responsible for your defective decks.

    Further, How do I know you're not just making some BS up just for a chance to sound all cool on T11 forums? Maybe you should have to prove that you have a defective product? Of course that's about as asinine as T11 having to prove they can produce a quality product, but that was done intentionally to prove my point.

    If you really feel so rough about the entire thing, send a message to Bayme or anyone in customer service at T11 and see if they'd be willing to do anything to help solve this problem. In reality though, it's just a bloody deck of cards. You're out what... $5 bucks a deck? Oh godz no! That's a drop in the bucket compared to how much magic goes for these days. If you bought a disappearing tiger illusion and it's defective, then I could see why you'd want to complain, but really man.. Come on. A deck of cards isn't the end of the world.

    Hell I remember when I first tried to do Through and Through. Not only did I screw it up, but I damn near had to go to the emergency room because I nicked a vain, and my damn hand wouldn't stop bleeding. But I didn't hold Dan Hauss responsible. It's not his fault. Nor did I go running onto the T11 forums to complain how I'll never buy another Dan Hauss product because apparently he doesn't produce quality work because I didn't get the results I was looking for on one of his effects.

    I will say however, coming onto the forums like this and whining about your defective product with all that false righteous indignation just isn't necessary.
  7. #7 Bill Charlton, May 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2010
    Thank you for your input but I am still haunted by this incident.I live in Singapore and I think that the climate does not affect the cards because none of my other cards suffered damage except for wet cards while I was under the sun for hours.The box I had are the same ones that are sold here so I assume its produced by Theory 11 or whoever.Also , I do not think that it was shipping because the box was undamaged.I did not buy the decks from supermarkets but rather at a reputable card shop.I will buy Guardians and Centaurions and I will post my findings here.Also , I recomend that the Guardians and Centaurions use the stock and finish that the Bee Stingers have ( Aristocrat) because I find that your Bee Stingers are of very high quality.

    I also apologise for any inconvinience caused but I really believe that the Guardians and Centaurions can improve in terms of quality.Consider my suggestion about the stock and finish change.I do not blame your for the poor quality of the product but rather I think you can do more to ensure quality.

    Thank you for reading this.
  8. Isn't it kinda common knowledge that the climate in singapore does bad things to cards?
  9. I believe it is commonly known this way. Because of the extreme humidty that goes along with the really hot weather here, cards can spoil easily if not handled well (with or without sweaty palms) and left in the open for too long.
  10. Not applicable because my other decks were not spoilt by the weather.Also , my Guardians and Centurions clumped and warped all over the place right out of the box and were literally half-destroyed.
  11. Well that was mistake number one, you bought it from a second hand source. The lesson? Don't buy second hand, buy your red dragon decks at exo, vipers at E, Guardians at T11 and Smoke and Mirrors at DnD
  12. #12 Mat La Vore, May 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2010
    I've always bought directly from T11 and never had a problem with any of the decks I've received. Might want to look at that "reputable card shop" again. Perhaps they aren't taking as good care of their stock as they claim. Not saying it is so, but it is a possibility as this definitely is not the norm for T11, as I'm sure you can see from the responses in this thread.

    If the rest of your decks were fine, and nobody else seems to be having the same issue with T11's decks that you do, to me this says the cards you got were somehow damaged after they left T11 and before they got into your hands. In the future just order directly from T11; your situation is definitely not the norm--as you can see.
  13. hey dude, fellow singaporean here.

    the humidity does tend to make cards warp like crazy in this weather. especially custom cards. i suggest sticking to the usual cards that dont warp. bikes and whatnot. the new V4 dan and dave cards are pretty chill too. barely any warping.
  14. #14 Bill Charlton, May 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2010
    All of my cards did not warp or clump or anything for that matter under the hot sun.

    Also , the person I bought from orders directly from Theory 11 and the box was not damaged so I assume the USPCC put in faulty cards or so.

    EDIT : I do not order directly from Theory 11 because when currency is converted the cost of Guardians and Centurions here is much cheaper and also the shipping os not that cheap.
  15. We are not exactly talking about the sun. The humidity, water in the air usually does the trick with the decks.
    The sun+high water consistancy=warped cards. Most cards stand up to this, because they are designed to do so but some just crumble.

  16. I treated my Centurions and Guardians the same way as I treat my other decks and they were the only ones who clumped and warped all over the place.I consider thouse 'dead decks'.
  17. Bill,

    Just sent you a message via PM, but wanted to post as well here to keep others in the loop that have posted in this thread.

    Simply put - it's a deck cards. They're made of paper. Just because the box looked perfect doesn't mean the deck wasn't damaged in shipping, at USPCC, or left in a hot car by someone somewhere along the line.

    We store all decks we produce - including the Smoke and Mirrors - in a temperature controlled, secure warehouse. But other stores, understandably, probably do not. Our decks are printed on the same casino (web) press as standard Bicycle cards, Tally-Ho cards, etc - and our quality control and testing surpasses any other company by a mile. No one else has their cards tested by a team like ours prior to production.

    But mistakes do happen. And some cards just get messed up. In the future, if you purchase a deck directly from us and it arrives defective, let us know and we will absolutely replace it and do whatever we can to make things right.
  18. Red Dragon decks are Magic Makers
  19. Figures :rolleyes:
    Anyway, I can empathize for buying local by the way. I missed that point in your post my bad. I have to import items of a clove variety from Indonesia (Out of the country) so I can relate heh.
  20. I find that part quite puzzling as my Smoke and Mirrors do not warp or clump right out of the box unlike my Guardians and Centurions.If it is the way the cards are made and stored , you should make some changes and tweaks.

    I suggest that you try using Guardians and Centurions using the Aristocrat Finish and Stock.:D
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