Topping the Deck

[ScottH5]

I'm missing an important sleight (the palm) in my arsenal. So I have decided to rectify this promptly!

My initial go-to resource for something like this is Roberto Giobbi's well-known collection. So I started there. Giobbi describes the method beginning on p. 273 of Vol. 2, and he writes:

This method and handling were first described in print by the legendary card expert Dai Vernon. Although it was developed many years ago, it remains the best method for palming a card off the top of the deck.

So that sounded good. Let's see what we get?

First, we get this:

Push the top card outward to the right with diagonal pressure from your left thumb.

Well, that's not working well...

Then, we get this:

As you lift the deck [into elevated dealing position], press the tips of your left middle and ring fingers against the face of the top card, pushing it completely up into your right palm.

Say what? I tried this. I found it to be about as awkward as anything could be. So now I'm getting frustrated... What to do? Well, Giobbi does footnote Vernon's method and handling, which appears in Vernon's Select Secrets. Perhaps it is time to consult Vernon on the palm? This I do.

All suddenly becomes (or seems to become) clear. Giobbi's handling is found nowhere in Vernon. The thumb motion is clearly described in the pictures Vernon provides. It is not "outward to the right with diagonal pressure..." There is also no stuffing of the top card card into the palm with the other fingers. On the third try, Vernon's method works flawlessly in my hands! The top card springs up into my palm as if by magic. I am amazed at what just happened.

Every time I go back to Vernon or Erdnase, I am amazed by what I learn from these geniuses. I am mind-boggled that Giobbi has mangled Vernon's suggested handling (while citing him!) I'd expect him to have at least indicated that he was offering a modified handling of Vernon's method instead of misleadingly presenting his handling as Vernon's own.

Ok, that said, I'm sure many of you are experienced with this move. Do you prefer Giobbi's suggested handling (which is manifestly not Vernon's suggested handling?) Or do you prefer Vernon's? In your opinion, has Giobbi improved upon Vernon's handling, or is Vernon's handling the better of the two? I currently favor Vernon's handling, and have practiced it a fair bit. In a few months, I think I'll be pretty proficient. But should I look closer at Giobbi's handling before I over-practice Vernon's?

 

[RealityOne]

I use Giobbi's handling. Unfortunately, I don't have Vernon's version to compare. Giobbi's text is a little difficult to understand on this one. My handling is as the deck is brought up and begins to be covered by the right hand, push the top card to the right and slightly up with the thumb (so the angle of the card matches the angle of your right hand) then as I switch directions (pulling my right hand back after squaring the deck) the middle and ring fingers gently push the card up as they slide across (remember the deck and left hand are now moving to the left) thus pushing card into palm.

 

[ChrisWiens]

I have the German version of Card Collegue and it is very clear written. I had no problems understanding it and it works well. I also have the ebook which, if I remember right, comes with a short video of this action.
Don't nail me on this, but I think the differences are mainly in the finger positions and the thumb action you described.
In Giobbis I think you are pushing the card slightly to the right with the thumb, in Vernons you pull it upwards slightly and to the left while your thumb leaves the top of the deck to rest on the left long side.
In Vernon's version all four finger are at the right side of the deck (Vernon often held the deck like this for example in his version of his simulated multiple card pushoff) while Giobbi is using a standard mechanic grip with the second finger at the small upper side of the deck.
It doesn't make a huge difference to me because I will push the deck in elevated dealing position in the course of the action anyway.

 

[ScottH5]

I have the German version of Card Collegue and it is very clear written. I had no problems understanding it and it works well.

Hi Chris. I have no problems understanding the English edition. Giobbi is an excellent writer. In fact, he's one of the clearest. The man has excellent analytical thinking and communication skills!

Don't nail me on this, but I think the differences are mainly in the finger positions and the thumb action you described. In Giobbis I think you are pushing the card slightly to the right with the thumb, in Vernons you pull it upwards slightly and to the left while your thumb leaves the top of the deck to rest on the left long side.

I'm not trying to nail you! But on thumb action, it appears to me that Giobbi wants one to push the card to the right, while Vernon wants you to push the card up (and slightly to the left, as you note). Here, Vernon's version strikes me as clearly better. It causes the top card to pivot off the right hand's second finger in an incredibly elegant manner. As you rightly note, Giobbi wants the the left hand's second finger to be on the top of the deck (as opposed to the side), but he isn't using this as his pivot point (or at least, he says he isn't). He says he is using Vernon's pivot point, and pivoting the card around the right hand's second finger works much better using Vernon's method (at least in my hands). But this was not really my primary complaint.

It doesn't make a huge difference to me because I will push the deck in elevated dealing position in the course of the action anyway.

My main gripe with Giobbi's description was twofold. First, he wants you to stuff the palmed card up into your right hand with your left fingers while moving into elevated dealing position. Second, he claims this is Vernon's handling. The latter is demonstrably false. Vernon has no left hand stuffing action occurring. As to the first gripe, it seems to me that causing the card to spring into the right hand (Vernony-style, and so without any left finger stuffing) is much more elegant, simple and natural. But RealityOne says he uses Giobbi's handling to great effect, so I'll experiment with it a bit more before passing final judgment. Still, a few further remarks might be in order.

First, Giobbi's handling requires more finger action than Vernon's. Provided you can cause the top card to spring up properly, you don't *need* to stuff it up there. And not needing to to stuff it up there means less (left hand) finger action. This strikes me as a clear bonus (and I can definitely make it happen). Second, the left finger stuffing action occurring while moving into elevated dealing position involves a complex action that consists of raising the cards in one's hand while also raising one's fingers and trying to stuff an upward moving cards further upwards. It boggles my mind to try to figure out how to make this work, although again, RealityOne says he can do it. (And I'll think more about RealityOne's described handling, which I just glossed.) Now granted, it's not as if I spent hours trying to figure out how to make the Giobbi version work, and that for the simple reason that Vernon's handling worked instantly for me. And there may well be benefits to Giobbi's handling that I haven't thought of. I certainly don't want to pretend to be an expert on the palm!

Finally, I definitely think it is a good idea to move the deck into elevated dealing position. This gives the spectator a more exposed view of the deck which emphasizes openness and lack of subversion. But the move to elevated dealing position can easily be accomplished just after (and almost concurrently with) the spring of the top card (which happens almost instantly). So I don't think that following Vernon's handling gives up on the perceived openness of moving into elevated dealing position where the audience has a much clearer view of the cards.

Just some thoughts. Hopefully they aren't uninteresting!

 

[Josh Burch]

I want to say that I head Dai Vernon say that the best palm out there was the Erdnase Top Palm. I use a bottom palm and top palm from Expert Card Technique personally. Vernon teaches a nice cop as well that I have used on occasion.

 

[ScottH5]

Thanks Josh. I've actually been looking at the Erdnase Top Palm (First Method). I wonder when Dai said that, since the palm he published in Select Secrets is not Erdnase's. In Select Secrets, he writes:

One item I have included, "Topping the Deck", is an example of the type of magic that has been my speciality for many years. I would enjoy nothing better than to write a complete book upon the subject, but a work of this kind is a difficult task, and only the knowledge that a widespread interest exists could encourage me to tackle such a job.

This seems to suggest that he's a pretty big fan of his palming method, and that suggestion was made in 1941.

I confess that Erdnase's version is given me similar problems to those I have described with Giobbi's (which is much more Erdnase-like.) I have not yet managed to find a way to like these palms which include a "stuffing" action. I will keep trying, of course, but I think I'll focus more on Vernon's version for now. Maybe something will "click" with the other versions eventually.