Underground magic?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by bigredbergid, Apr 23, 2009.

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  1. Im not the best magician but i am a very dedicated . so i think when they say theory11 underground magic & cardistry epicenter there should be another website thats even more under ground like a special test/entry video something to enter the site . Im not the best magician but i am a very dedicated . so i think when they say theory11 underground magic & cardistry epicenter there should be another website thats even more under ground like a special test/entry video something to enter the site . everyone should have good amount of expierience and some years of consistant magic with the seriousness(is this a word lol) that it takes to have a true uunderground magic site. now thats a site! no offence to the best magic site on the web THEORY11! i love this site alot more than any other ,i just want i sight with atleast my skill level and up <is that selfish ? I dont think so but what does everyone think well not everyone you know who u are lol u concieded mofo's haha i know i am with all the memories if had of people comparing me to the pros anyhoo who's with me?!?!.............................. BigreD
     
  2. I have no idea what you just said.
     
  3. He wants a new site that people have to be accepted into.
     
  4. ah,gotcha.
    But what can we do?He can make his own site i assume.
    And I dont really think he is using the term 'underground' the way it was meant to.

    Unfortunately,Underground has become more of a brand among people here than a movement.
     
  5. yeah i have horrible literature skill srry but i dont want to make the site one out of the 11 magicians should deffinatly
     
  6. How do you know there isn't already one?

    o_O

    -Rik
     
  7. Exactly what I was thinking.
    In fact, I know of one which sounds close to what he was getting at
     
  8. Because what we need in magic is more ego and a less unified community, yep!
     
  9. lol i was thinking the same when i posted. where is this site? lol
     
  10. yeah i do actully i dont think performing magic should be experienced by millions all round the world its taking the magic out of it when everyone knows so much of the magic secrets and scince there capable of doing the trick and deff fooling most.and now were comin up with new slieghts that all these laymen now learn and watch criss angel now all of a sudden they too want to do magic indeed this is a art and a respected one by the artists who perform and are consistant and would actully become a professional magician for a living
     
  11. kvlt kiddie syndrome. Don't let it happen to you folks.
     
  12. lol jajajajaajajaja that was pretty sweet steerpike
     
  13. I think the point of Theory 11 is to be accessible, in contrast with the old ''If i tell you my secret i will have to kill you'' atitude, you know all that ''a magician never reveals his tricks'' bull****.
    It needs to be open in order to educate good professionals or just people with lots of free time like me :D
     
  14. Do you realize that there is not one capital letter in your whole thought? And most of the words aren't spelled correctly. If you are trying to get something across you should first visit the library.
     
  15. Magical ability and experience is shown through the forums by how one speaks, the advice they give and the questions they ask other 'younger' magicians, by this respect naturally comes but it cannot be instantly forced. I realize this is vague but I believe that if there was just one forum for experienced magicians then there would be less room for growth. Think of the older generation vs younger generation thread that was posted a little while back. Some magicians that I personnally respect on this forum are morgician, steerpike and chr!s.

    matt
     
  16. Which more or less makes Theory11 into the opposite of Underground.
     
  17. I think this is a terrible idea, the magic community is already divided enough as it is. It would serve no purpose and would encourage elitism. You've also completely misunderstood how T11 uses the term underground. There's nothing underground at all in terms of being difficult to hide or being hidden, you can easily find it on google. It just refers to a style of magic (which i'm skeptical about tbh, not sure that it really exists but it doesn't really bother me.)

    You also need to learn to use basic grammar and learn to spell, the average 8 year old could use punctuation better than you do. If there was an 'underground' forum I certainly wouldn't want you in it.

    If you're as dedicated to magic as you say you are then why not start contributing to T11, why ask for another forum when you haven't even used this one?
     
  18. I am not sure that being part of a separate group is a bad idea. Why should magic not have a form of elitism in it? Musicians have separate schools for those that are serious about their craft...actually, the concept of College and University is elitism, as you are making a statement that you are investing in your abilities. It doesn't mean you are smarter or better, but that you decided to go through a process to be officially declared as be able to make this achievement happen...as an equal number fail in the attempt…and a larger number don’t even bother to attempt it.

    I find that in magic. The designations for magicians seem to run like this:

    Magic Fan/Hobbyist – this guy just is a fan of magic, but with the ease of access of effects, he does some to be part of the circle…usually, he does them poorly. This guy will often say…well, I have a job, so I can’t work on my magic that much – or some form of this excuse to suck at his hobby

    Know-it-all-Newbie – New to magic, usually nervous and shy at conventions, but can turn into a loud mouth know it all on forums – they buy mainly videos, and have a business card before the act, he gets reactions from his friends, then he will spew his opinion like it is biblical verse…however, this same guy can become a great student of magic, IF he doesn’t take that path. For most, it is not even a coin toss…it is more like a roll of a nerd die with 20 sides, hoping for a 1…but it happens. This guy usually has more $ than brains, and buys and buys magic…as he thinks more knowledge is more power…which may be true, if he took advantage of that knowledge. *

    Nervous Newbie – not sure where to start, asks questions that seem so basic, but is afraid to make the wrong decisions. Oddly, these guys more often turn into really good magicians. They are new to magic, and are looking for guidance. They care for magic, but are unsure on how to treat it – they usually come to this forum and ask for soft questions, but in time, they will find the right books…read them, and grow better…to become one of the following *
    Kocky-Kid – These kids are usually technical wizards – they can do all the advance card techniques, or whatever they choose – but because of this, they feel no need to understand performance or magic theory on timing and other performance constructs. Put them in front of a crowd and they suck – they often don’t see it – because they are SO in love with themselves that they can’t take a good look at what the audiences sees. I really see this guy as an uneducated Pretender.

    Pretender – This guy does a show here and there…he has been in magic for a long time. He has read books in magic, he has watched video, and because of his exposure he seems to give solid book advice. However, when you see his magic…it contradicts everything he said. When you call him on it, he makes excuses. He thinks he is one of the better ones, but the only person he fools is himself. (This person can often disguise himself as “The Elite” because they publish something).

    Pre-elite – This kind of magician is similar to the guy above. He reads magic, watches magic, loves magic…however, the difference is that he actually puts much thought into what he is showing and why. He is the kind of guy to writes a meaningful script, constructs sets that are logical and wants to do strong magic. Again, he doesn’t always live up to it, but will continually make changes to achieve this goal.

    The Elite – These magicians are the ones we look up to in magic and have spent much time educating, sharing and thinking about magic. They have published well thought out ideas, that took them time to cultivate (opposite of Jay Sankey, that pumps out 8 DVD’s a weekend). They are far and few between, and many of the greats are dead, but consider guys like Darwin Ortiz, Juan Tamariz…and some of the crew from T11…to be a small part of this group.

    * Because these two groups are so influenced by marketed material, they never question the legitimacy of an effect. They aren’t critical thinkers, if it is in print; they think it is good…until told otherwise. The Know-it-all-Newbie at this point will call you an idiot…the Nervous Newbie may or may not make the change, but they will always consider your thoughts.

    What this comes down to is various levels of respect of magic (and seasoned magicians) and amount of care/effort that goes into one’s magic. The lower on either variable, the less I want to see this kind of magician around me…I think this is itself is felt by those that are at the higher level of these variables, and why would you want to hand with people that don’t have the same passion as you do. What would you learn from them, other than what you DON’T want to be?

    Tommy Wonder wrote an essay on this – talking about the so-called “brotherhood” of magic. He asks, why do I have to be nice to you, just because we share the same hobby, when I probably wouldn’t spend time with you if you didn’t? Too often people forget that the magic is secondary to creating a connection/friendship – hell, even I have forgot that early on. I have learnt many important things from other magicians, but one thing Lee Asher always taught me – It doesn’t matter how good you are at magic, just don’t be an jerk – I value his friendship and guidance, because he always treats those around him as equals in magic – regardless of their ability. I have found that the nicer the magician is, usually, his magic is superb, or well on the way to being that. Which is often why the ignorance in this group frustrates me…because I realize what kind of magicians I am sharing with, and it saddens me.

    Hence my lack of posts over the month.
    That being said - Flyinggazelle, thank you – you know what kind of magician you are…and you certainly know which one you aren’t.
     
  19. #19 bigredbergid, Apr 24, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2009
    w/e i know the the real meanings of magic especially my own pretty well and millions of kids at there schools showing there magic isnt in the plan. criss angel era is ruining magic as we know it. all im saying is magicians should be seperated to one and another with diff skill level .also its like awesome routines shouldnt be butchered by young magicians and exposed everywhere on the net the secrets are being exposed fast .there will be a another group that will save magic watch and if you practice really hard and prove your ready to be apart of that group then that will be the shiznit .I HAVE A DREAM mlk im not black lol nor am i racist i sure cant right but i amaze many with an art that i care for more than anything on this planet and with that i will suceed with my dream of magic.
     
  20. #20 RikAllen, Apr 24, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2009
    Difficult to read, you should try spacing it out more, or capitalizing words.

    I don't think Criss Angel is to blame when it comes to exposure through youtube by younger magicians. Respect is mutual, secrets are all the same, and most people learn from their friends rather than celebrities.

    If I want something to stay a secret, I tell no one. I'm good at telling no one, it's something I feel more people need to work on. I don't feel guilty by hiding secrets from people, if they don't need to know then I won't tell them. The same people revealing effects, mainly for attention I would presume, probably tell someone every secret they were ever entrusted with.

    Lack of respect is another thing you are either taught when you're young or beat into you when you get older. I can't blame children if their parents didn't teach them to respect other peoples ideas, products, or secrets. Don't tell me kids don't know any better, I knew from the time I could walk to respect (by not touching) things that didn't belong to me. It's a simple process, start teaching something before a kid can define it and it will become second nature.

    And last, friends influence. Peer pressure. I personally don't believe in peer pressure, I think people are either have conviction or they lack conviction. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. If I do a super-neat trick and my friends ask how I did it, I can either tell them or let them wonder. They won't hate me for not telling them and they won't be better friends just because I told them. It's just as easy to say no then it is to say yes. They're both single syllable words.

    Morgician did a great job breaking down the groups of magicians that exist. I'm sure everyone can be put into one of the categories he presented. I agree that how much respect and kindness someone shows everyone around them tells a lot about a person.

    Anyway, I just thought I'd throw in a few things, and end saying I believe in a hierarchy of some sort. I don't think 'elite' magicians should look down on others, but if we don't classify ourselves then we have nothing to strive towards.
    Without labels we all fall into mediocrity, and to be honest, most of society has already done that. What is it, 5% of the population control 90% of the wealth, they strove to be different-successful. 5% of magicians are talked about 90% of the time...why is that?

    -Rik
     
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