Up the ladder shuffle tips

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by Jimmy88, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. Hi theory 11.

    I've been working on the move for about a year now, I'm looking for tips anyone has discovered mastering Vernons shuffle.

    Anything that will help that I can try to help improve mine.

    Thank you and have a great new year.
    Gabriel Z. likes this.
  2. For Up the Ladder you'll want to ask @Gabriel Z. He's our local expert on that sleight.
    Jimmy88 and Gabriel Z. like this.
  3. Up The Ladder is a beautiful cut when executed properly... I started doing it back in 2013 and to this day I still practice it when time allows. Although you should learn both fluently, from trial and error I've discovered at least for me that the Expert Card Technique version works better than the one in Card College(I say this because you get a natural break in the back after 3 cuts). Which brings me to another point for a while I was doing 3 cuts and 3 cuts exactly as mentioned in Expert Card Technique this is NOT necessary you can mix it up and it makes it look way more convincing....If you post a video so send me one I would be happy to help anyway I can. Happy New Year!!!

    This is my first video ever on Up The Ladder ... You can see how my hands are struggling to get to each packet what it boils down to is muscle memory and repititions 7 years later I'm still finding ways to get to the packets quicker.... If you do at least 50-75 complete cycles a day you will be a good shape as far as Charlie Millers Up The Ladder is concerned.. You should also experiment with Vernon Cold Deck Cut and other variations. Hope this helps.:)

    Thanks for the intro @Scodischarge :cool:
    Jimmy88 and RealityOne like this.
  4. Jimmy88 likes this.
  5. @Gabriel Z. The man who always helps me out!
    I hope you've had a great xmas!

    I would love to talk about this with you in depth, as I realized my knowledge on this is incorrect, as in terms of the publication.
    I swear I remember reading this from Vernon, and I was completely unaware this was Mr.Miller.
    I know of him but never studied his work.
    I would love to IM you with a video of mine, maybe you could tell me what my version is and correct my knowledge and technique on this move.
    Thank you.
    Have a great new year!
    Gabriel Z. likes this.
  6. The hardest part about up the ladder is that there isn’t any real secrets to share other than practice.

    I would strongly suggest investing time in your standard strip so that you get your speed consistent but otherwise it’s all a practice game.

    just filmed this for reference. I’m no Steve Forte but it’s getting up to speed.

    video is of a standard strip followed by an up the ladder.

    let us know if there is anything specific you are looking to improve and we might be able to help otherwise, keep at it!

    Gabriel Z., Jimmy88 and DavidL11229 like this.
  7. So, I turned over the top card and did the shuffle slowly.

    I believe I mite have gotten confused with the move @Gabriel Z.
    As I see you're completely able to keep the whole deck in order while mine just keeps the very top stock, say 7 cards in order.

    Gabriel Z. likes this.
  8. Ignore the first replay!!!!

    So, I turned over the top card and did the shuffle slowly.

    @byronblaq and @Gabriel Z.
    please watch and advise.(I'll take down the video after a few days)
    With any tips or information you can.

    Thank you

  9. This shuffle does keep the deck in complete order.
    I've gotten abit confused.

    I've just come off a night shift at work.
  10. @Jimmy88 That is indeed an up the ladder sequence. And that will keep it in perfect order.
    Nothing wrong with that at all.

    The one that @Gabriel Z. shows above is the version published in Expert Card Technique and is attributed to Charlie Miller (although it wasn’t his move, technically). That particular version takes a few cycles to get back to where you started but both are accomplishing the same thing.

    The beauty behind the up the ladder is that it can be done in various ways. The we are doing it is the way the Steve Forte does his. I prefer it for the speed and similarity to a real stripping sequence.

    If you’re looking to improve the speed of the stepping, try using a metronome on a low setting and slowly work up the speed.

    I do that for lots of cards moves to keep pace. Bottoms, seconds, stripping etc. works a treat!

    Gabriel Z. and Jimmy88 like this.

  11. Thank you for the viewing and that tips!
    I really appreciate it and the information around it.
    I guess I picked it up elsewhere and never read it from Vernon.
    Steve Forte, thank you for telling me that name, cant wait to look into it.
    The metronome idea is fantastica and I will be 100% stealing.

    Thank you for time @byronblaq
    byronblaq and Gabriel Z. like this.
  12. If you're just remotely interested in gambling moves and anything related, you definitely should. Mr Forte first gained fame (outside of magic circles, that is -- he'd met with famous magicians like Bill Malone and Ed Marlo before that already) for his 1998 TV special in Hidden Secrets of Magic:

    Anyway, that's beside the topic :) I believe BB and Gabriel have provided you with all the info you need on the Up the Ladder (for now).

    Happy new year!
    Jimmy88, byronblaq and Gabriel Z. like this.
  13. Jimmy88 and byronblaq like this.
  14. @Scodischarge man, steve forte is seamless! I am very interested in card mechanics!

    It all started at university where in the UK a few years ago I met Richard Turner. 20200102_043612.jpg

    He was a man that not only ignited motivation in my personal life but a huge intereste in card mechanics.
    He is a great man mr. Turner, he spent a great deal of time with me, not only about magic but life and everything.
    Signed lots of stuff for me and is incredibly generous.

    I will definitely be looking into him.

    @Gabriel Z. And @byronblaq
    Thank you for looking and the critique.
    You both have been very helpful to me.
    The Top Change Man and byronblaq like this.
  15. Anytime @Jimmy88,

    Always happy to help where I can.

    Turner is in the same league as Forte. I have an incredible respect for both and worthwhile having all the material both have released.

    Jimmy88 likes this.
  16. That's incredible! In November he performed in London, and I seriously thought about flying there (for one afternoon from Germany -- Greta Thunberg's glaring at me already) to see him, but it didn't work out in the end. I hope he'll come to Germany one day; if he does, I'll be first in line for a ticket.
    His Fool Us performance is actually what ignited my passion for cheating at cards (the moves, not the actual cheating in games) 1 1/2 years ago, which later turned into a passion for magic -- though the gambling aspect still prevails.

    However ...

    I respectfully disagree. While it's true that Mr Turner can do things nobody else can (as Mr Forte himself stated), in my opinion Steve Forte is in a league all for himself regarding most gambling techniques, including those that are completely unsuited to a magic performance (e.g. techniques used to cheat in casinos).

    However ...

    Let's not get into a war over that. I'm nowhere near good enough to be a good judge on that (probably only two people in the world would be: Richard Turner and Steve Forte -- and both are too fine a gentleman to name anybody but the other person!), so there's only thing that's really relevant for mere mortals like us: That we can learn a tremendous amount from both of them.

    Regardless, @Jimmy88, you should definitely check him out. To me, there's nothing more beautiful in the world of cards than a deck in the hands of Steve Forte. You won't find much of him on YouTube (apart from the clip I sent you, there are four more, I think, one of them a "Cardmen's get together" with Richard Turner, Jason England and others), but his Gambling Protection Series is well worth the money. In fact, the bonus feature "52" is worth half of it!

    Noticing it just now -- we kinda got off-topic. Hope nobody minds :)

    Have a great day, everybody!
    Jimmy88 likes this.
  17. @Scodischarge Fair points.

    I would agree. Forte is in a world of his own in terms of capability.

    My point here in terms of league is that both men have mastered their craft. Not a dig at either.

    Certainly from @Jimmy88 ’s perspective, he would have more access to material from Turner than Forte if you don’t count the current books (which can be hard to find) or upcoming book from Forte.

    Either way, I agree!

    Jimmy88 likes this.
  18. @Scodischarge I do the same, being from England, any reason my partner and I can find to go to Berlin, we go.
    Most magic acts don't really come to the UK, but the best part about the EU is there is a country where they do go and its a cheap flight and an easy few hours :)
  19. Thank you both for the further information in the private convo.
    byronblaq likes this.
  20. Here you have my whole-hearted agreement.

    What about GPS? That's an incredible source to learn from as well.

    Really? I always lament that we don't seem to have any (living) magicians in Germany except for Denis Behr, whereas there are loads of great magicians and technicians in the UK I'd love to meet.

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