US Playing Card Company's paper quality

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by inedhowetrust89, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. maybe this is not the first time i saw people complain about the thickness of some playing card brand which is produce by US Playing Card Company.

    last December i just got package contain 605 fournier playing card and its my first time EVER buy the non-USPCC playing card. because i satisfied with USPCC quality.
    but when i feel the 605 stock i can feel that its so different with USPCC's, for a week or two i have been playing with 605 and leave USPCC card for a moment.

    another week i just arrived to my hometown and so happy because i going to open my package from T11 which contain almost 2 dozens of playing card contain 12deck of SnM, 3 sentinels, 3 D1, and 3 125's.

    the time when i open the sentinels and 125's i very surprise.
    i never feel playing card who very thin and so BENDable.

    i think that "is it the side effect that i playing with my 605 to much..? until i can bend the USPCC card so easily..??"

    but im wrong, only the deck which they day i open had the different stock and thickness..
    i try my expert at the card table playing card and they still thick also my SM V4 have the same thickness..

    but what happen to the SENTINELS and 125's that i just bought..??
    from that day, i afraid to open another deck which sent by T11 (im not blame T11 for this)

    3 days i never touch the deck at all until the next day i very surprise that sentinels and 125's are extremely bent so badly..its not just bent but its wave.. i can see the side of the deck like wavy, almost like W pattern in the abstract way

    and then another weeks im not went home because i have to work for a week and when i going back home my sentinels cant be FAN..:(

    i just cant believe that whats happen to my deck?
    maybe i just get BAD luck this time with my ORDER...

    its just my story that i want to share, not to blame anyone.
    but, i need explanation for this.
  2. First off, I would bet that if you actually stacked the Fourniers beside most USPCC cards you will find they are actually thinner. Hard to believe but true. Fourniers are still a much stiffer springier card however. You will also notice that most European brands will feel a bit stiffer than USPCC. Part of that is just various decisions card companies make when producing a card. The vast majority of USPCC cards printed go through a process that dimples the card. That is where you get that "air cushion" finish that most USPCC cards have. I believe that process tends to soften the cards as well. Both the "Ivory" (smooth finish) and the "Cambric"(air cushion finish) versions of the Conjuring Arts Erdnase cards are supposedly printed on the same stock, the Bee Casino Grade. After the dimples are pressed into the stock the Cambric Erdnase cards have a much softer feel to them.

    Secondly, at least in the case of the Fourniers, they use a varnish(heat treated coating) as opposed to a finish. This may also have a tendency to stiffen up the feel of the card.

    Finally,your original assertion could be absolutely correct. The Europeans may simply be using higher quality stock. If you get off card and magic forums and start surfing around in printing forums you will find that in those circles the most highly praised "black liner board"(card stock) on the market right now seems to be coming out of mills in Germany. Now I don't know exactly which mills provide which companies with their black liner board but my best guess is that Fournier, Piatnik, and Carta MundiMundi's European plants all have access to higher quality stock at a cheaper price.

    One thing to keep in mind though....stiffer springier cards are not necessarily better. A lot of that is actually a stylistic preference. For instance, if I was going to do an ACR with a monstrous difficult sequence of moves (say a Diving Board DL to Silver Surfer, throw in some one handed shifts, a clip-shift, and maybe a one handed pop-out for good measure) I would definitely choose a Fournier over any USPCC card. If, on the other hand, I wanted to perform a gambling set with a monstrously difficult sequence of moves (say tabled faros, push-through shuffles, riffle stacking and Greek deals) then there isn't a stock in the world that IMO can compete with the Bee Aristocrat. So when you really start exploring what stock options(no pun intended) that are available from different companies around the world it is best to keep an open mind. For durability and high end performance I have yet to find a card to equal Fournier but for smooth elegant shuffles and fans it is hard to beat a Bee.
  3. but the USPCC card i test it with spring card, bend it and its almost like 80gram paper...or maybe 100gram paper..
    its so different with my other USPCC card stocks...

    its just strange.....
  4. Wasn't Fournier acquired by USPCC?
  5. thats some history from the site..
    but actually i love 605 more now..

    its like 1 month im almost completely not touch USPCC cards...
    maybe just sometimes but not so long time...:(
  6. @inedhowetrust89- I see what you are saying and Yes...that to is happening. USPCC just had to cancel E's UV500 stock because it became to expensive for the mills to provide. I used to work at the ground, and I mean ground floor of this industry. I worked for the US Forest Service in Fire and Timber management. While I don't know much about the mills and the printing factories I know a lot about the timber industry and to put it blunt, the state of the US timber crop is threatened to say the least. I have heard that some card stocks are made out of cotton pulp and not wood pulp so I don't know how much the timber crop is effecting the mills but, intuitively at least, it seems that weaknesses there are spreading to the mills, which in turn is spreading to the printing companies. Also, there has just(within the last 2 years) been a big shift at USPCC from a plant in Ohio to a plant in Kentucky. We have all noticed lots of changes in various cards we have been getting...some good....some bad.

    @deckmastercards- It is more accurate to state that USPCC and Fournier share a parent company. Jarden Corporation. USPCC currently has very little direct control of Fournier. Furthermore, that would have little influence on the stocks provided by the mills. If USPCC had a plant in Europe, and the European Mills provided higher quality stock than the US mills, then our imaginary (Euro)USPCC- would be printing on better quality stock than the Kentucky plant.

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