Video making

Jan 3, 2008
58
0
Hi guys,

I would like to start a conversation about video making. Almost everyone of us have made a video of magic, but still mostly aren't made the way it is have to be made. So here I would like to you to share your thoughts about structure, music, background and so on...Also i would like to point it is YOUR OPINION that I ask and who wants to say that it depends on your taste should go elsewhere.

Thanks for your time,

Tomas Simkus
 
Oct 24, 2007
314
0
Well, I actually work as a documentary video editor. I have just started my journey in video editing (well, it's been 4 years and I've edited 15+ videos, but I still don't know a lot) so I don't know how much help I will be.

My thoughts about structure, well it really depends on what type of magic/flourishing you're making the video for. I'll do what I think is the structure for a flourishing video (since so many people make those) and a magic video (2nd most made). I'm just going to do a basic outline of what I would put on the screen.


Flourishing:

- Shots of the Location (locations are key, you want a good backdrop, not some living room with a couch behind you!)
- Quick Flashes of Flourishing
- Title
- Present Character (bring the flourisher into the shot)
- Flourishing begins (you want this to not be very energetic)
- Some shots of location flashing in a little
- Flourishing gets more energetic
- Flourishing ends with the coolest flourishes and the best movement
- Credits and performers name

Tips:

Break up your flourishes, what I mean is, don't have a constant video of one angle! Have multiple angles of the same flourish move. Multiple angles give it dimension. Build up the worst to the best flourishes so that the video has a climax. And always credit your inspirations!

Magic Video:
1- Shots of location
ALTERNATE OF 1- Shots of reactions to the magic
- Title
- Present the character (the magician comes into view)
- Show short shots of the magic
- Show full performances with good reactions
- End with the best trick you performed or reaction you got
- Credits and performers name

Tips:
Break up the magic (what I mean is show separation between tricks), unless you flow well with an audience! Also, try to get your camera person to get more angles. One angle gets the eyes bored, multiple angles are exciting and give off different spins of the views of tricks! This tip is important so listen up, NEVER PUT MUSIC OVER THE PATTER OF A TRICK. Build it up just like the flourishing video so that you end with the best leaving the people watching at the highest state of energy. Also, always credit the people who made/invented the tricks!

Music:
Music really depends on how the performer wants to cast his performance. MUSIC MOVES PEOPLE. It speaks to their soulz, so when you're picking out music, ask yourself what you want your music to say. Do you want it to say, this guy is weird? Or, this guy has skillz? Or, this guy is classy? (rofl) It all depends on how you want to cast it.

Tips:
No, and I mean NO, POP! Pop can only be used when there are not two things (1) lyrics in the music (2) a slow beat. With pop you want a fast beat. With all magic video music, you DO NOT want any singing in it. This detracts from your performance. The actual music speaks to people and bonds with your performance. A lead singer just detracts from your light.

Backgrounds: I usually pick out my music first, because then it tells me which kind of feel I want the video to have. Then I pick the best background to give off that feel. If you have a video that is going to have classical music, you definitely don't want your background to be some old abandoned brick building! After you've chosen the music, choose the background that fits it.

Tips:
There are several places where it's not good to shoot. (1) Inside your house or room (2) In the woods (lighting is usually horrible!) (3) Outside of your house with your house or other houses in view. If you're young have one of your parents take you somewhere! Abandoned buildings are open, DO NOT GO IN THEM, but you can stand with them behind you. Another thing, DON'T GO ALONE. Pick a good backdrop.

Anyway, those are my views from my video editing experience. They aren't the law of course and some might be wrong, I admit I'm not perfect, but most have some weight to them. Hope these are helpful! Peace!

Tyler
 
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C

clarrus

Guest
Man Tyler,
We should be paying you for advice like this. You take monopoly money?
 
Oct 6, 2007
612
0
GREAT ADVICE Tyler!!!

Thanks alot, it's really given me some ideas for a street magic movie/video I wish to shoot...sometime in the near future.
 
Well, I actually work as a documentary video editor. I have just started my journey in video editing (well, it's been 4 years and I've edited 15+ videos, but I still don't know a lot) so I don't know how much help I will be.

My thoughts about structure, well it really depends on what type of magic/flourishing you're making the video for. I'll do what I think is the structure for a flourishing video (since so many people make those) and a magic video (2nd most made). I'm just going to do a basic outline of what I would put on the screen.


Flourishing:

- Shots of the Location (locations are key, you want a good backdrop, not some living room with a couch behind you!)
- Quick Flashes of Flourishing
- Title
- Present Character (bring the flourisher into the shot)
- Flourishing begins (you want this to not be very energetic)
- Some shots of location flashing in a little
- Flourishing gets more energetic
- Flourishing ends with the coolest flourishes and the best movement
- Credits and performers name

Tips:

Break up your flourishes, what I mean is, don't have a constant video of one angle! Have multiple angles of the same flourish move. Multiple angles give it dimension. Build up the worst to the best flourishes so that the video has a climax. And always credit your inspirations!

Magic Video:
1- Shots of location
ALTERNATE OF 1- Shots of reactions to the magic
- Title
- Present the character (the magician comes into view)
- Show short shots of the magic
- Show full performances with good reactions
- End with the best trick you performed or reaction you got
- Credits and performers name

Tips:
Break up the magic (what I mean is show separation between tricks), unless you flow well with an audience! Also, try to get your camera person to get more angles. One angle gets the eyes bored, multiple angles are exciting and give off different spins of the views of tricks! This tip is important so listen up, NEVER PUT MUSIC OVER THE PATTER OF A TRICK. Build it up just like the flourishing video so that you end with the best leaving the people watching at the highest state of energy. Also, always credit the people who made/invented the tricks!

Music:
Music really depends on how the performer wants to cast his performance. MUSIC MOVES PEOPLE. It speaks to their soulz, so when you're picking out music, ask yourself what you want your music to say. Do you want it to say, this guy is weird? Or, this guy has skillz? Or, this guy is classy? (rofl) It all depends on how you want to cast it.

Tips:
No, and I mean NO, POP! Pop can only be used when there are not two things (1) lyrics in the music (2) a slow beat. With pop you want a fast beat. With all magic video music, you DO NOT want any singing in it. This detracts from your performance. The actual music speaks to people and bonds with your performance. A lead singer just detracts from your light.

Backgrounds: I usually pick out my music first, because then it tells me which kind of feel I want the video to have. Then I pick the best background to give off that feel. If you have a video that is going to have classical music, you definitely don't want your background to be some old abandoned brick building! After you've chosen the music, choose the background that fits it.

Tips:
There are several places where it's not good to shoot. (1) Inside your house or room (2) In the woods (lighting is usually horrible!) (3) Outside of your house with your house or other houses in view. If you're young have one of your parents take you somewhere! Abandoned buildings are open, DO NOT GO IN THEM, but you can stand with them behind you. Another thing, DON'T GO ALONE. Pick a good backdrop.

Anyway, those are my views from my video editing experience. They aren't the law of course and some might be wrong, I admit I'm not perfect, but most have some weight to them. Hope these are helpful! Peace!

Tyler





THANKS ! :)
 
Oct 24, 2007
314
0
I'm glad I was able to help so much. And no clarrus, I don't take monopoly money, but I will take Board Walk off your hands.

One other tip I forgot to include, USE A GOOD CAMERA. Webcams, Digital Cameras (ones meant to mainly take photos), are out of the question, DO NOT use them. Webcams and Digital Cameras take choppy video. The last thing you want is a choppy video! If you don't have a good camera, surely someone you know has one. Borrow it!

I just keep remembering stuff, and this is more about editing. DO NOT USE WINDOWS MOVIE MAKER. Windows Movie Maker is terribad. I keep seeing all these videos that have good potential, but look poor because they've been edited in Windows Movie Maker. You can't make good titles, transitions, or edit video well. If you are only planning on making one video, then by all means, use it! But if you plan to make videos of yourself and post them here, use something good.

A good cheap video editing program is Magix "Video Deluxe 2.0 Plus" (link to the product: http://cgi.ebay.com/Magix-Video-Deluxe-2-0-Plus-New-in-box-70002_W0QQitemZ290192834837QQcmdZViewItem)
which only costs about $15.00. IF, and this is purely IF, you are very interested in video editing your magic videos professionally (because Video Deluxe is an amateur program) I highly recommend Sony Vegas 7.0 (link to the product: http://softwarebackups.org/index.php?target=desc&progid=8238) which costs $250. This program is great because not only does it give you a video editing program, but it comes with professional DVD authoring software. So, if you are planning on putting a trick on DVD and selling it, you'll need this!

If I think of anything else I'll post it. PM me if you need any video help, I might be busy and not be able to help you, but if I am I'll help as much as possible! Peace!

Tyler
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nov 2, 2007
246
0
Norway
One other tip I forgot to include, USE A GOOD CAMERA. Webcams, Digital Cameras (ones meant to mainly take photos), are out of the question, DO NOT use them.

Oh shi- you just ruined it for 99% of the young magicians.

While I respect you for making a long list of advice. Most of it is pretty obvious. But definitely a good list of things to remember when making a video.

I've made quite a few videos of paintall, skateboarding, snowboarding, computer game videos aka frag movies etc. My brother had a 6000$ camera + fisheye lense and we had A LOT of fun with it.

My best advice is look up other videos. Find what you like with them and try to do some of the same(editing wise). But try to make it your own. Straight out copy paste from Dan and Dave is not cool.
 
I started a thread of Filming Magic a LONG time ago. Here is what I wrote:

Angles/Positions

The angles really depend on the effect, if there is an effect with bad angles, the most logical thing to do is to have your camera in the right position so nothing is exposed. The camera shouldn't be able to pick up any flashes, so everything must be planned out in advance as it is hard to misdirect a camera.

The first thing you have to realize when filming a performance is that the cameraman will have to act like a spectator because the people who are going to be watching the performance on film, are spectators. You'll want your camera man to be positioned close to the spectator (behind or next to). But under no circumstance do you want to get in the spectator's way, because they are the main viewers, and the magician's job should be to entertain the audience, not the camera, so if at that moment it would be hard to get a good shot of the magician, don't worry, there will be plenty of other times to get a great shot.

Different tricks call for different angles and positions, I am going to show you an example of where the camera should be. (Photo's taken summer '06)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...loridaedit.jpg

This picture is of me performing Stigmata by Wayne Houchin. The cameraman should be positioned to the left of the spectator (arrows) filming my arm. If possible, have the cameraman film everything (arm + bodies) to get a good view of facial expressions. If the cameraman was positioned on the right of the spectator, the spectator's arm would be in the way. The camera must have a good view of EVERYTHING so it benefits the viewers on the other side of the screen once filming is complete.

Attitude/Complexion

You have to make sure that the camera man is in the right attitude for filming. If not, things can go wrong during filming rendering the final copy useless.

Sit down with you camera man before going out to perform, and bring these points to his attention.

Stable Camera

You DON'T want the camera to be shakey, it takes away from the potential of the video. Almost nothing is worse than a shakey camera, make sure that the camera man is calm and cool so that the stability of the camera is normal. Throughout filming many things, I have noticed that there are two ways to eliminate shakeyness. Usually I see people holding cameras like this:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ing_camera.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ngPangMata.jpg

You DON'T want your cameraman to hold the camera like this, the camera wont be stable and it will shake. You want to have support at the bottom of the camera, so instead of hold both sides of the camera (or only one), simply put one hand into a fist, and rest the camera on top, the other hand will be at the side of the camera.

Another way to hold the camera is to hold it while looking down at it. To do this, instead of putting your hand up into the camera strap, put it downwards into the camera strap, I find this gets a lot more stability, but the angles are harder.

Quiet Cameraman

My biggest pet peeve and something that is totally unprofessional is your camera man talking while filming. You never see this in movies, short films, or TV shows, then what makes it right in a magic video? Even if it is your dad pointing out flaws, or saying where to move, HE SHOULDN'T beca-

**** WAIT STOP, let me emphasize on something...

"Even if it is your dad pointing out flaws, or saying where to move"

This should NEVER happen, your camera man shouldn't be the one telling YOU where to move, it should be vice versa, not to sound arrogant, but the MAGICIAN is in charge, the camera man should be taking orders from you, if your camera man is giving YOU orders, it makes you seem weak, you are the main act, you are the magician, the camera man should never be giving you tips. And if the camera man can't get into a good enough position, then it is his problem, your number one goal is to entertain your present spectator, not the camera. If

Now let's return to where we were. I know it might be hard to tell you friend, parent, or sibling to (lack of a better term) SHUT UP, but it is necessary for the sake of your video.

Lighting

I notice sometimes in people's videos, and even my own it is hard to see the face of certain cards, this is because of lighting. Cards are VERY VERY reflective and light just bounces off of it like there's no tomorrow. To avoid this, close your blinds so that no light can shine onto the cards, and turn the light off of your camera. Have the light shining behind you, not from in front of you, or the cards will reflect light.

"Your eyes and brain can quickly adapt to mixed lighting situations -- such as tungsten, daylight, and fluorescent -- but your camcorder has a much more difficult time. fluorescent lights often cause a greenish cast, while tungsten makes things orangish; even good ol' daylight can color your scene blue if you're in the shade or next to an open window.
How the heck do you deal with all of that?

The best solution is to try to limit your light sources, and then use your camcorder's white balance setting adjust for the dominate light source. So if you're indoors with lots of light streaming in the windows and bright fluorescents overhead, then either turn off the fluorescents and balance for the daylight, or pull down the window shades and adjust for the overhead lighting.

Once you start thinking about mixed lighting sources, you can take steps to avoid those situations. When you can't, try to limit the different types of illumination and adjust your white balance accordingly." (http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/ma.../dv_tips.html)

Sound

Sound is another very important issue, it is very unprofessional to hear background noise, and even the sound of the camera's mechanisms.

"Whenever possible, use an external microphone, either wireless or with a cord, to capture the audio during taping. Resist the urge to go the easy route and use your on board mic. Not only is it of less quality than a good external microphone, it will also pick up noise from the camcorder's drive mechanism." (MacDecCenter.com)

If you continue to hear background noise, I would pick up a good video editing software, or sound editing to eliminate the noise. I use Honestech Video Editor 7.0, it is free, simple, and comes with a ton of features.

EDITING

I am going to delve into the art of editing this time around, but I won't act like a spokesperson for specific editing programs (well maybe a couple) because all editing takes is time and patience. A good editor can make a masterpiece using Windows Movie Maker. It simply takes effort, don't think you can pop in a clip and edit it effortlessly. Editing takes practice.

I am studying Film in College right now, and we use every editing program. From Final Cut Pro to Adobe Premiere, but I ALWAYS eventually come back to Windows Movie Maker... why?... because it's what I'm most comfortable with. And I can say from experience, a lot can be done with a simple program like Windows Movie Maker. At home I use Adobe Premiere and WMM, but I use WMM 10X more than I use Premiere.

There are two vital features to editing, Splits and Cuts. Windows Movie Maker contains a split option and this option is the one needed the most. Using a split allows for a clip to be cut (or split) in any area of the clip. So let's say a split is need at 1:07, then stop the clip at 1:07 and click split. It's as simple as that. This will allow for cuts to different tricks, flourishes, and effects.

One thing I see in many magic videos is ridiculous special effects such as spinning or shaking of the film at the climax of the effect. You want the people watching the video to see what the spectator would see. The spectator wouldn't see a vivid complete colouration distortion of entire reality in front of their eyes, then why put those effects on film? It's O.K. to slow down the film at the climax because the person viewing the film will still see a clear shot of what is happening on screen. As long as the viewer can see the end or climax CLEARLY, then that part of the film should be fine.

If the editor wants to put sound, then it should be put at the right time. The film viewer wants to hear the patter, not the heavy death metal playing in the background. I am guilty of doing this and I have learned from my mistakes. It's O.K. to have music playing throughout the film but even with Windows Movie Maker it is possible to mute, lower, and raise the volume of a clip and/or song. So there are no excuses for not being able to hear patter.

I often hear many people complaining about compression, conversion, and the size of their files. (The size of my files are bigger than all of yours *Wink wink*). I found two VERY simple solutions to this problem. If your video is in finished editing in .AVI format, import it into Windows Movie Maker, put it into the time line and click "File -> Publish Movie" then click "Best format for playback on this computer". It will save it as a .WMV and a MUCH, MUCH smaller file. I also know many people complain about conversion, do not fret! Simply go to this site:

http://media-convert.com/

And choose the conversion file you want. If your file is ultra huge, I would recommend converting the file to .AVI and follow the previously mentioned steps for .AVI files. The site that I mentioned allows changes the quality of the video and sound. Simply choose the sound and video quality needed and the video should convert without any worries.

This is a very basic introduction to editing, but once again I would like to state, don't be angry if you don't have the highest quality video editing program. I use Windows Movie Maker daily because it is the most simple way to edit a video. It just takes time.

Happy filming and editing.

Mitchell
 
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Sep 2, 2007
1,182
119
31
Houston, TX
ok now im so hoping that noone will take this idea. im not accusing that anyone will its just that ive been sitting on this idea for a while and theres a video contest im going to do and i am using this idea and i think its really original but wanted to know what yall thought about it.

ok first all you see is the cards, in the box and my hands. as i open the box, the camera slowly zooms out and you see that im on the roof of my 2 story house, i then drop the box off the roof. the camera fades out, then back in and i start to do the molecule cut taught by dan and dave on 1-on-1 but with an ending i made up. then i flip the top card over and it says magicians.com. i do a snap change and it changes to say check it out then the vid goes back to a close up of the cards and i do a fan and them he zooms out and i spring the cards off the roof.

what do you think?
 
Jan 3, 2008
58
0
Oh my GOD! I am amazed by answers! This thread is pure gold to me....

Mitchell, Tyler, your advices are awesome, thanks :)

R.K. magician78, your idea is original, but wouldn't it be compicated to shoot everything from such a distance?

Tomas Simkus
 
Jan 3, 2008
58
0
guys, let's continue this thread, because I believe that it WILL give us much of information and ideas how to show our magic through video.

Everything is welcomed :)
 
Oct 24, 2007
314
0
ok first all you see is the cards, in the box and my hands. as i open the box, the camera slowly zooms out and you see that im on the roof of my 2 story house, i then drop the box off the roof. the camera fades out, then back in and i start to do the molecule cut taught by dan and dave on 1-on-1 but with an ending i made up. then i flip the top card over and it says magicians.com. i do a snap change and it changes to say check it out then the vid goes back to a close up of the cards and i do a fan and them he zooms out and i spring the cards off the roof.

Okay, you're idea is original. BUT, having you sitting on the roof doesn't really make sense. Having a house in the shot looks very unprofessional. Now, if you could find maybe a wall (concrete) you could sit on safely, that would be pretty sweet. Oh dang. I just thought of an awesome stink'n flourishing video! But, I'm not a good flourisher so I can't shoot it.

I would love to see it in action though. So, if anyone has the program and the ability, they should do it! Instead of dropping the box down, throw the box up in the air, but using Adobe After FX's, have the box just freeze in the air while you are still moving! That would be awesome!

Anyway, I could do something like that with magic. I don't know, I'm pretty busy. Peace!

Tyler
 
D

Deleted member 2755

Guest
Only you (the performer) and the person holding the camera are what is needed to make an amazing video. Of course we all want awesome looking videos like Theory 11, and as Mitchell said, Final Cut Pro and Adobe Premiere are great programs. Final Cut Pro is only for Macs though (which I don't use). Adobe Premiere and Sony Vegas are probably the best programs for Windows users. (I'm attempting to teach myself these programs.) Windows Movie Maker though, is so simple to use. I used it for every movie school project I have ever done. Of course Premiere and Vegas you can make the awesome looking titles, the great special effects, and more, but essentially all you need is Windows Movie Maker.

Look the media section of this site. Look at the videos. You will rarely see too many special effects. You may see some awesome looking titles, you may see some basic looking titles. In the end it comes down to your filming skills, and what you put into the video.

http://media.theory11.com/1008-Invisible-Deck

This is Mitchell's Invisible Deck video. I'm not sure what programs you used for this Mitchell, but this video as you can see contains no music, no special editing, or any of that jazz. (Yes... I said jazz.....) The only thing Mitchell did here was put in cuts to go from one performance to the next. I'm sure if you watch it, you will think "Wow. Mitchell is pretty good at that." You wont think "This video is terrible! He didn't even put titles into it!"

http://media.theory11.com/1003-Portable-Playground

Now watch this. You'll notice a bit of editing went into this. Sometimes between flourishes you'll notice a nice transition, and sometimes the video fades from black (which Windows Movie Maker can do). However, I didn't remember this video for it's semi fancy titles or transitions. I actually had to re watch this video to see if there was editing in it. Essentially, it is cutting the movie several times. This video looks awesome because of it's great angles and shaky/moving filming style.

So sure you can use programs like Final Cut or Sony Vegas, but you really essentially only need 3 things.
1. A performer
2. A good camera man (Doesn't even have to be amazing, just know some angles and how not to be too shaky (unless you are going for that).)
3. A very basic editing program

However, of course I wish I could use Sony Vegas like a pro, but again... it is not essential.

I hope Mitchell's and my input helped you guys out in your filming.

Cerca Trova :)

-Doug
 
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