What's new about Digital Dissolve?

Discussion in 'Product Questions and Reviews' started by joshua barrett, Sep 7, 2007.

  1. i hope one of the big guys can answer this.

    ok i watched the dvd and all of that and the problem im having is, i can't see, to figure whats different about DD from the steve deusheck routine C/S transpo or marketed version Ultimate copper/silver

    DD is good, but im disaapointed with the reselling of somthing already available
  2. i though of this as well ... even though im still planning of purchasing this effect i think that some ppl might not understand the difference from this effect or the classic C/S routines already out there .. and i think the main reason for this is the video on the DD page... the video is more of a "Trailer" rather than a "Demo" and there is big difference in those 2 ... the trailer has more cut scenes and shows the reactions etc.... and the demo shows the routine and on occations with minor parts missing as to not reveil the method.... i think we could get a better understanding of this effect if there was a Demo available as well.
  3. #3 joshua barrett, Sep 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2007
    no i own digital dissolve. and what im sayign is this exact routine was released by steve, and id like to hear from the theroy11 team if he is aware they duplicated his effect. the handling of the change and the same gaff all the same. they do credit steve so they are aware of its existance. i hardly think the "toss switch" constitutes a re-release as new
  4. Maybe because the GIMMICK itself is made by Jamie Schoolcraft, which makes it awesome automatically.
  5. im sorry but that was usless, there is not much difference in this gimmick and the oringinal other then a slick surface. i have another one of higher qualilty. its quite evident the gimmick was rush for quantity the way the teflon is cut. i don;t care who manufactures it. its the same
  6. Hi Guys I originally started playing with what is now Digital Dissolve after I acquired the “Gimmick” that the effect uses now.
    This crafted gimmick that got me playing with this was created by a Presley Guitar from Texas and predates Steve’s. Presley told me the idea predates him by many years and he mentioned crafting coins of this nature for J.B Bobo. Also Palbearers Review mentions the gaff. I have tried to chase down the history of this gimmick. Presley Guitar mentioned to me that he started creating many coins that were variations of this gaff; the one used is only one idea.

    From the routines perspective it was developed by trying to combine Bobo's handling of copper silver transpo and David Roth. After many trials with audiences the method simplified to what is shown today, even thought I still continue to play with many ways of creating this effect.

    It has not been my intention to rerelease as I believed this to be something unique and the approach I took on the effect differs. I hope this helps in the discussion. And again sorry if you feel you got something you already knew.
  7. thanks for the reply bj, helps loads
  8. #8 joshua barrett, Sep 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2007
    as im not one to let this go easy, im still not convience the handling is different then steve's that appear on his dvd from material form 1985, its been reported to me that he was selling the gaff for the trick as early as 1969.
    stright from the undergroud... im not so sure.

    sorry to be a heckler but i get tired of re-buying things from tarbells

    i don;t think when the gaff was created matter much, the problem lies in the fact the handling is the same
  9. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=163349&forum=3&start=0

    i think that says it all. i was mistaken in my initial impression of improved ethics of the operators of this site over others. the sale of this item should be removed if they care about beign a ethical company at all. its up to T11 now to decide if they want to expiot thier customers who don;t know the facts for finanical gain for a product they were not given permission to release. maybe the thought is who needs ethics when you got good marketing.
  10. #10 HarbingerOfDeath, Sep 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2007
    Wow that link you posted makes you really think a bit huh Josh? Makes me wonder about T11's ethical values over marketing strategies a bit. If anything I hope this is all cleared up in the end.
  11. #11 bjBueno, Sep 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2007

    Thank you for pulling the facts together. I am sorry that this created such a stir.

    To All:

    From a routine perspective, DD is completely different, and the effect to the your audience is not even close to C/S Transpo. I am of course not saying I don't like Steve's effect, but DD and C/S are not the same. C/S Transpo is much closer to the marketed effect "Scotch and Soda."

    Steve Dusheck is not mentioned in the printed record for creation of the gaff, but regardless, our intention was to give credit to all of those necessary in preparation of the Digital Dissolve DVD. If the claim is that Fulves did not credit him, why was that not changed later on in the record? How am I responsible for that? I can only credit what the printed record acknowledges, and I am sure a simple letter could have done the trick. Who invented the gaff? That is the only credit that I believe is in question.

    Here are what three very well known people give as credit to this gimmick:

    - Karl Fulves says the gimmick has been around a long time, and is much older than he is.
    - Presly Guitar, although came up with the gimmick on his own, later found out and acknowledged that the gimmick was also much older than he.
    - Steve Dusheck says that he is the originator of this gimmick.

    So the question here is whose gaff is it, and why was this not addressed and resolved decades ago? As anyone who has seen the Digital Dissolve DVD will notice, I have done my due diligence and credit all of those who have touched the gaff. As you know, it would have been much less expensive for us to create this gimmick ourselves, but it was very important to us for Jamie Schoolcraft to make the gimmicks for this effect-- as he is the only person in the world with permission from Steve Dusheck to create the coins. DD is not the same as C/S Transpo, and if you would like to try performing both of routines and show them around, you will notice the difference quickly.

    I want to clear this up because I do believe people are getting a great effect that is different and valuable.
  12. There's always two sides to a story. Basically BJ gave one side, Mr. Dusheck gave his, and then you stated your conclusion (quite harshly) about the ethics of this site without a chance of rebuttal. Could you not have asked the same question without calling someone a liar?
  13. This is the one thing that Magic will always have trouble with, giving credit where credit is due. Magic is a about secrets. I think all we can do is try to credit the best we can. If there is a problem, make sure we correct it. Don't point fingers at people. All the theory11 magicians here are respected and will do the right thing.
  14. If I understand it right, and from speaking with several people, the question is not about the gaff at all.

    The question is about the routine. From what I understand, it is the same routine that Steve Dusheck published in his notes back in 1982. They're also on his dvd. From what a few people have told me that have his dvd, it is an IDENTICAL routine. That is the main complaint about all this from what I've seen.

    And BTW, I'm not getting involved really. Just stating some info as I UNDERSTAND IT. :D

  15. Regarding all this ethical rah rah. My question is:

    Are we magicians or

    All this self-righteous holier than thou attitude is sickening. Instead of wasting time bitching why not go out and astonish more people with it (with the time spend and also the effect).

  16. ok guys ... this is the the last post i had on the cafe. forgive me if its hard to understand i spent alot of time tonight getting the facts. i talked to BJ on the phone and had some email correspondance with steve deuscheck.

    ok guys iv had quite the long night. iv spend some hours tonight with a group of magicians here locally discussiong this. iv had some talk with steve via pm and email. iv spent a hour on the phone with bj beuno.

    iv come up with some conclusion, and after alll of this im done with it. you have no idea the energy used to find out one thing. is the routine different?

    the answer is yes.

    do i think BJ should be able to sell the routine. yes

    after finally getting the information i was always looking for i found these difference. DD is done at the finger tips using a new original switch showing hands empty of extra coins showing both sides of the coins and a visual transposition/change. only 2 real similarities exist based on my research of the routine. 1. both a c/s effect 2. same gaff

    now my thoughts on the gaff matter is that permission was given to jamie schoolcraft to make these coins. to think that someone will only do ONE single routine with this gaff is a bit , i dunno... not reality? i am in no way questioning the creditbility of steve. i have mixed sources about the date of the coin but even bobo made mention of it for a sun moon effect, so even if steve marketed it first others thought of it before. im inclined to go on this patteren of thought as no one has questions karl's published routine with it ( that i do not have ) so even if steve thought of it before karl, it sets some precident with makeing routines using the gaff acceptable. if this is not a acceptable practice i beg those performming selling coin shell routines to find the orinator nad ask permission.

    now to back my conclsuion on this after much thought, steve gave jamie permission to make and sell this gaff. jamie did just that, and someone sold a good routine using it. im sorry if such a arrangment is now regreted.

    i can also say form talking to BJ he showed the routine and method to many people that every single one of you respects, if you want to know who ask BJ, he was very up front in saying that if you have a problem with this to ask him directly on T11 and he will address the issue.

    i have more thoughts on this but im tired. im satisfied with the information given to me, and i hope everyone else is too. im sorry it was such a up and down road just for me to get a answer to one simple question when all i wanted to know was the difference. im not sure it was worth the time, but at least in my mind i know.

  17. sean im not sure who you are refering, maybe me. however if you don;t ask the questions you don;t get the answers. i recieved many PM's from members here who wonder the same thing i did. sometimes that answer does not come as easily as one might think when you mix in mis-understanding, gossip and hear-say some is falicy on my part. but it now its clear i hope.

    like it for not its part of the buisness side of magic. as dirty as the policatics can be, it keep the good stuff churning out. like checks and balences. there is a positive and a negitve to it all. if you don;t wish to concern your self thats fine, but if someone don;t ask thw questions then no one will ever know. now people that wondered the same thing i did know, cause i asked the question.
  18. #18 joshua barrett, Sep 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2007
    possiably, my remark was made after a misunderstand as BJ thought i was questiong the use of the gaff, when i was asking about the routines. i took this as avoidance. thats mis-communitaction for you. i can't apoligzies for the remark as i feel i did what i need to get a answer. i am sorry for the miscommunication that help cause this to turn into a mess.

    on the fip side of things, bj was a real nice guy to talk to, and i could tell from chatting with him he's someone who cares alot about magic, as do I. if i didn't i none of this would have mattered to me and i would of just blindly accepted it all.
  19. #19 Bizzaro, Sep 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2007
    It's situations in magic like this that caused me to write one of my articles in SM magazine. Credit where credit is due sure, however the how and why doesn't matter so much as the effect it creates on your audience. If you do ambitious card with a Svengali instead of double lifts does that make it any less amazing? Nay.

    We tend to create new moves and gaffs for the sole purpose of not only ourselves but for other magicians to marvel at our own magnificence. We have to create. It's in our blood. Sometimes our paths cross. No reason to get up in arms over it. Life is short. Everyone relax.

    Take the blue pill.
  20. I've been looking at the 1982 Steve Dusheck DVD for Copper/Silver Transpo that uses the SAME gaff (accepted as Steve Dusheck's invention) and his handling.

    You can buy Steve's DVD $10 - it includes a HEAP of material and is excellent value.

    Simple question really

    What is "different" about Digital Dissolve that warrants BJ Bueno calling himself the "inventor" of either the gaff OR the handling?

    Dr. G. Keith Still

Share This Page

{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results