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What's the most advanced card sleight?

First off, I'd like to apologise for 2 things:

1st: This should be in the card section, I know. But let's be honest, nobody looks there anymore, kinda sad, but true.

2nd: I haven't been around here much lately. That's because I've really started to focus my life on magic, and a main part of that is spending less time on forums. I swear every minute I spend on here is equivalent to an hour of standing in the middle of a circle of magicians screaming at you, saying you're wrong, over and over again. I want my magic to be about the audience, not about myself, and if I'm wrong, I couldn't care less, just as long as I give them a good time.

Ok, now for the point of this thread.

What, in your opinion, is the most advanced card sleight in the world? And, of course, why? This stems from an interesting discussion I had last week at a convention with David Regal.
So go ahead, I'd love to hear what you guys have to say :)
Oct 17, 2007
Aussie NSW
Ahh Those conversations with Regal were AWESOME.
But Honestly i think it really depends on who you are and your skill like for example you and i know we will probably see a few people saying Raise Rise.

Like for example Didn't David say the Double Lift? because of what we were talking about? It was a great conversation either way.

I will have to think about what sleight i think is.

Whats your opinion?

Jan 16, 2008
IMO, a LOT of Ineski's sleights are pretty hardcore (especially in his "Unnatural" video).

First off, Tumbleweed how would you define "advanced"? Perhaps it could be the most difficult to perfect, perhaps the one that accomplishes the most (e.g. controls 16 Kings to the top of the deck while switching them from face-up to face-down):p, or the one that could be accomplished right under the spec's nose without them noticing?

Just some questions...sorry if I didn't provide you with a satisfactory answer...
The Pass is pretty darn difficult for me.
Nov 20, 2007
Sydney, Australia
It's an interesting perspective to say the double lift. I think that they way you phrased it, it comes down to this: advanced is not the same as technical difficulty necessarily. And you definitely see way more bad double lifts than bad raise rises.
Oct 28, 2007
Sydney Australia
Well advance could mean quite a few things.

Most advance being most versatile: Double Lift
Most advance but being completely useless: Antifaro and Center Deal (Oh Go ahead and flame me if you must)
Out of Shear Difficulty that I can do: A riffle faro, Raise Rise sequence
I would say that the double lift is probably the most butchered move in card magic. So many people think they have it down-pat but unintentionally have so many tells and unnatural "get-readies" that make the sleight completely transparent in a set. The key to a perfect double turnover isn't the alignment of the cards. In my opinion, it's actually the rhythm of the action. I find that the most distracting tell to a double lift is the slight break in rhythm prior to the move. It's a very, very, very difficult habit to break-- especially among more exprienced card handlers.

With that said, following along similar lines-- I believe the pass is probably one of the more difficult sleights to accomplish as well. So many variations of the pass look so contrived and awkward. Unnecessary table taps, wrist movements, shuddering fingers, etc. I believe the pass is just as versatile as the double lift, but it has more significant and more visible tells as well. It's hard to make the move invisible because it has to be done SO naturally that it looks like you're merely squaring the deck. I think people seem to miss that point. Most handlings of the move are so convoluted with unnecessary fidgeting to hide the sleight that they don't resemble the original POINT of the move to begin with.

Talking shop with David Regal must've been a productive experience. What else did he have to share? What were his thoughts?

Talking shop with David Regal must've been a productive experience. What else did he have to share? What were his thoughts?


Mainly he just taught us more tricks than we'll ever need to know :D

But he also went through different types of presentation. There was a lecture and also a workshop. The workshop was for more personal tricks and presentations :)
Mar 2, 2008
Diving board double (arieal)

It is not that hard to learn but to do it infront of a audince and know your going to hit it... thats hard

Even Lee Asher can't hit it 100% of the time.
Sep 3, 2007
Diving board double (arieal)

It is not that hard to learn but to do it infront of a audince and know your going to hit it... thats hard

Even Lee Asher can't hit it 100% of the time.

That's why Lee Asher doesn't, and STRONGLY recommends not to, perform the Acrobatic Version in front of spectators, simply because it's impossible to do absolutely 100% of the time.
Sep 2, 2007
What do you mean by "advanced" :S ..

If you mean in terms of physics, I'd go with the S.W.E, very unorthodox.

On that basis, I'd go for the Erdnase One-Hand Shift, performed with no cover from the other hand, since that's basically the mechanics of the SWE Shift executed in one hand.
Sep 1, 2007
Houston TX
The Anti-Faro

all the others are not really advance,
clip shift- bring card from bottom to top
raise rise- push one card in and push one card out.
diving board double- bending the card and releasing it to launch it in the air.

Granted those moves are hard, at first, to learn. Once you know them they become more and more easy.

The anti-faro is "advanced" because of what is happening. You are springing the cards, and using air pressure and the shape of the cards as they fall to make them land alternating to be able to do a reverse of a faro.
Even if you learn how to do it, you will never get it down every time because it it is a science that has not been perfected yet.

P.S. this is my opinion, I'm not saying that what i just said is the only answer.
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