What's the point?

Sep 1, 2007
172
0
Edmonton, Canada
So recently I saw one of zach's (zachmonkey) videos it was all erdnase sleights done perfectly and I thought what's the point I mean it's cool and stuff I myself am
guilty of practicing bottom, center and top deals but isn't it useless unless you plan on performing it at some point infront of people. Same thing with flourishing it's performance but shouldn't you be practicing to entertain people not people sitting behind a computer screen. Tell me what you guys think.

edit: all thoughts are appreciated.
 
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Aug 10, 2008
2,023
2
33
In a rock concert
So recently I saw one of zach's (zachmonkey) videos it was all erdnase sleights done perfectly and I thought what's the point I mean it's cool and stuff I myself am
guilty of practicing bottom, center and top deals but isn't it useless unless you plan on performing it at some point infront of people. Same thing with flourishing it's performance but shouldn't you be practicing to entertain people not people sitting behind a computer screen. Tell me what you guys think.

Whats the point of playing games?


I for instance enjoy practicing hard sleigths and tricks just for the fun of doing them, althought I know Im not going to perform them :)
 
Jul 1, 2009
648
1
29
Austin,TX
Like RDChopper said we magicans have no social life.

All we do is shot ourself performing, practicing, and on these forums reply to threads.:(
 
Aug 5, 2009
13
0
I don't have much experience to ground this thought in, but I always believed it was the thinking behind the methods, which was conveyed in describing them, that made Erdnase important for all card magicians, even those who may never perform a bottom deal (the people around him unknowing or otherwise). The approach to the technique, seeking a purpose and then creating something for it, is a general idea I think anyone can use.
 
Oct 15, 2008
826
0
Tennessee
i have a social life =DDDD

but ill tell you the point.

because we can

why did you start magic? because you wanted to.

it all starts with YOU, not the people you perform for.

I didnt start magic because i wanted to impress people, i started it because i enjoy it. entertaining people is the by product (dont think i spelled that right)

if you dont have fun practicing, something wrong.
 
Feb 28, 2008
354
8
It's a hobby like any other. I know many people that play instruments that don't perform for anyone but themselves in their bedroom.

The point is, if it interests you, then do it... work on it... love it.
 
Sep 1, 2007
172
0
Edmonton, Canada
I personally have always had the mentality if I'm practicing somthing I mean I enjoy practicing it but always plan on performing it I've never really thought about it like That Rmana
 
Sep 1, 2007
319
2
USA
Why do I spend 2 hours practicing juggling a soccer ball just to improve my touch on the ball?

There's no way I'm going to be pro someday.

Why do students in school go for that 105 on a test when they know that a 94 is as good as a 105 on a college transcript (both look like this 'A')?

Hope this helps

ZG
 
So recently I saw one of zach's (zachmonkey) videos it was all erdnase sleights done perfectly and I thought what's the point I mean it's cool and stuff I myself am
guilty of practicing bottom, center and top deals but isn't it useless unless you plan on performing it at some point infront of people. Same thing with flourishing it's performance but shouldn't you be practicing to entertain people not people sitting behind a computer screen. Tell me what you guys think.

edit: I'm not just posting this to help myself but everyone on these forums so all thoughts are appreciated.

The study of magic should include a well rounded education. Slights, techniques, patter, and the like should be practiced, and learned for the sake of the development of knowledge and expanding your personal skill base.

You will never know what you can take from these slights and apply to other areas of your career.

While learning to perfection may be a bit unecessary, Technical knoweldge and practical working experience should be a requirement.
 
Sep 1, 2007
172
0
Edmonton, Canada
Oh! thanks for shining your light over us mortals.



be humble.

Your welcome lol, jk, I didn't mean to be rude, disrespectful or condescending I just wanted more then one opinion.

you guys gotta admit though it's not a cheap hobby just to learn somthing and never use. I guess you could relate it to toy collecting or somthing along those lines though.
 
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May 9, 2008
603
0
Some of us like to do it because it's fun. We are in a community that shares a common interest. We can talk about the latest flourishes and tricks with each other because it's what interests us. We probably wouldn't discuss these things with laymen. It's not all about performing... it's about building yourself personally. It helps me feel at one with things.
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
There is good and bad to the cliché advice of “studying magic” for the “sake of development” and “learn as much as you can”, below are what I think the pros and cons to learning all you can.

The pro – learning sleights and practicing ones you may or may not use will come in handy. It will allow you to exercise your hands and be more proficient a magician. There have been many times that I have had to think quickly to recover with “sleight B” and still achieve an effect when “sleight A” has gone amiss. Like when you perform a pass and bring an accidently brought it to the bottom or second to the top…moves you may not have used would allow you an out. It may help your creative process too, as you will know more solutions to a given problem - knowing 5 ways to reverse a card, could come in handy when working on something, more so than just knowing one. I think Draven sort of touched on this when he said, “You will never know what you can take from these slights and apply to other areas of your career”, which is true, but because he didn’t really explain how, and someone asking the kind of question you are,I figured you may not be able to read between the lines to understand the importance of the statement. (not calling you stupid, but Draven's post took me a couple reads and I am still not sure I grasp the ambiguity, yet concise, nature of his statement - ha - I bet you missed me Draven.) On a similar note, I don't nececssarily agree with Draven's last statement that "While learning to perfection may be a bit unecessary, Technical knoweldge and practical working experience should be a requirement." But in hoping to agree, that he meant that you should strive for perfection of method, (that being that a keen observer could not detect method) that you should also focus on having entertainment value in your magic. That perfection is a goal, but one that you will strive for, for the rest of your time in magic - as even the best performers of any given sleight still work constantly to improve it.

Anyhow - it reminds me of a line in Sherlock Holmes - Knowledge is it's own reward - as learning more will help you progress. That being said...

The con – Learning moves for the sake of development, would be like thinking you had to memorize all your times tables in math to be able to do math. Some sleights you won’t want to learn – not because they are a waste of time, but because they are not efficient. This is where you have to be…here it comesA CRITICAL THINKER…you have to think! For example, the “ego change” has been a popular move in the last year, but is this the best change if your audience is seated? How about standing? Surrounded? So, you should be thinking about your venue, and how the method affects the effect. Can I do the ego change? Yep. Do I ever use it? Not really. I learnt it for me, to experiment with it, but there are many things I haven’t learnt and don’t intend to as the effort to learn and master the sleight is far greater than the impact it will have - a good example for me is Ray Kosby's Raise Rise. The move is not easy, and the amount of time it would take for me to make it look natural and moveless, would be great, and I don't find it that versatile a move. I use other methods to create the same effect, that are more efficient and versatile.

I would rather see you be amazing and 20 sleights, then mediocre with 50.

The way I learnt sleights was of necessity. I would read or see an effect I like, then learn and master what I had to be good at to perform it. As I grew in magic, I would learn the extras as weapons to add to my arsenal, if needed. Also, learning new techniques challenges you – and since magic is a large part practice – this helps prevent you from getting bored.

There are many talented magicians that think to be considered good at cards you should learn these things, then variations of these 7 things.

Control to top and bottom
Double Lift
Top Change
Colour Change
False Shuffle
Palm top and bottom
Force


I would add to that list a few false counts, like the Elmsley...at least then you could do many store bought packet effects, if that is your thing.

If you can do these things well, and 2-3 variations of each well, then you are in the top 10% of all card handlers.

Hope it wasn't a waste of my time writing this - and it helps you with your magic.
 
Oct 13, 2008
46
0
Forgive me Morgician, i have no time to read through your post so i hope i dont repeat any of it here in my more succint reply.

Put simply, if you're questioning why you're learning the sleights then the simplest thing to do is stop. If you're asking why it suggests you're getting irritated by them and see them as pointless. Do something else instead. If you love magic but are beginning to tire of cards, try coins or even something completely original.

When i learn a sleight i try and figure out a way i could use it, either with an exisiting effect or maybe a new one. If you can't, and this is just my opinion here, it does strike me as a bit of a waste of time if you're not enjoying it. Me? I love messing about with sleights and seeing my hands get better at them over time.

Of course there are no laws about what you have to learn or how you have to learn them. The focus is on the spectator and you the performer. Sleights are just the journey to the effect. Some, like the Invisible Deck, require little practice and easy sleights, but the effect is knockout if presented correctly.

There's some footage of Blaine somewhere on Youtube doing a routine that's pretty much all DL's. He still floors them. Chris Kenner used the Second Deal to great effect in Election, and that's the only time i'd use that sleight as i dont show off gambling moves. I doubt i'll ever need the centre deal so would rather work on something else.

Hope this advice helps. Remember thats all it is.
 
Hello my name is Mikk and i have no sexlife.
*looks around everyone is laughing im not getting the picture, reads other posts*

Damn, i knew i didnt understand something.
Anyway, i too practice Magic sleights every once in a while and read magic related stuff. But i dont really perform magic anymore.
I sometimes show some stuff to friends and buddies but that does not happen much.

I think that others made all the other points as well as this clear so do listen to them :).

Mikk.
 
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