Where Are We Advancing To?

Apr 27, 2008
1,805
2
Norway
We all speak of furthering the art of magic; Whether we say it because we care, or because our friends do, is often discussed, yet where we want it to go is unheard of.

Where is it that magic should advance to? By furthering the art, where exactly is it that we would be taking ourselves?

Point is, we worry so much about the fact we want to go there, we don't even know what is actually there!

Where the f!ck are we supposed to be headed?
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Youtube-free seclusion?

G
 
Nov 16, 2008
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In the not to distant future
There is always talk of advancing the art, yet little ever gets done. I'll use t11 as an example. Go.out.perform. was huge when it started. People took interest in it. Now, it's rare to see someone to post a single video in it. We tried to start intelligent discussions, but those wound up lost in the pointless threads. People are refusing to take criticism anymore as it damages their ego. People agree with these ideas because they don't want to be left out of the next big thing.

I've said this before, people make a mess and refuse to clean it. They expect the next person to fix it for them. Is that the right attitude when it comes to magic? I'll let you ponder that for a moment. Remember, talking about doing something rarely accomplishes anything. It's only when those ideas are executed that change will come.

Hopefully, this will give people the understanding of what magic really can be.
 
Apr 27, 2008
1,805
2
Norway
Talking about things doesn't make them done.

It does, however, bring rise to new ideas.

And really, DO WE NEED TO ADAVANCE THE ART RIGHT NOW?
No. We are doing good

Are we doing good? Really?

I know a hell of a lot of people who would slap you in the face for exclaiming something like that ;)

change comes with the time, not time with change.
Ponder that, friends.

Interesting. So you're saying we should stand by and let it all change on it's own?

Nothing ever changes on it's own. Something sets off change.

Who's to say it shouldn't be set off now?

People are refusing to take criticism anymore as it damages their ego. People agree with these ideas because they don't want to be left out of the next big thing.

Wanting to join in can be blamed on simple human behaviour. I'm afraid that is something we can't change. So wherever it is that we want magic to go, other, not so like-minded people will follow.

I've said this before, people make a mess and refuse to clean it. They expect the next person to fix it for them. Is that the right attitude when it comes to magic? I'll let you ponder that for a moment. Remember, talking about doing something rarely accomplishes anything. It's only when those ideas are executed that change will come.

Hopefully, this will give people the understanding of what magic really can be.

And then...?

What 'change' is it that you speak of? What are we trying so haphazardly to do?

That's what I'm trying to figure, because it seems to me like only those who really want change can tell me what change is.

Thanks for taking time to write it out Jon and Ozzy;)


G
 
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RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,637
471
46
Louisville, OH
For magic to advance I believe that many of the arm chair magicians / you tube only magicians need to get out and start doing magic for live audiences. They then need to start taking some constructive criticism to grow professionally. Even the best magicians around the world need to learn to be humble, yet confident in what they do. Everyone can learn. It is called being a life long learner.

We need to quit looking at pointless posts about the next best deck. Personally I think the mods should just start deleting the pointless posts asking for someone's opinion...especially if it isn't even posted in the proper location. I agree with Sinful's post a few days ago. This place used to have some great info / ideas being shared and now I find myself coming on here less and less because of the junk that the teens decide to throw up on the board.

For those of us who currently do perform paid gigs...maybe we need to see in what areas we need to grow. For example: I do not have my own website so in the next few weeks I plan to meet with a few guys to get one up and running. I have talked about it, I have planned what I want it to look like, and now I am following through.

If everyone on here sets little goals for themselves and aims at accomplishing them...then I think magic as an art and we as a community / whole will begin to advance as well.
 
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The thing is that if you're not satisfied with what you have, you can't help it.
You have to be happy with the art to be able to help it.
But the "change" that we're speaking of, is known by none. Most people assume no more reveals, but that's never going to happen.
There is no change, just the delusion that we need it.
 
Apr 27, 2008
1,805
2
Norway
I think some of you are missing the point - I'm not asking how we should advance, moreas where to?

The thing is that if you're not satisfied with what you have, you can't help it.
You have to be happy with the art to be able to help it.
But the "change" that we're speaking of, is known by none. Most people assume no more reveals, but that's never going to happen.
There is no change, just the delusion that we need it.

So in essence, you think we've reached the peak of the art? There is nowhere left to go?

I'd like to know what change you assume would happen. The limit of your imagination is not the limit of mine.


G
 
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Apr 27, 2008
1,805
2
Norway
If this is the peak, I'm tempted to quit magic. Either way, it's not what the original question was about.

Well, in a way it is. Seeing as though Ozzyschach thinks there is no change, it would be logical to assume this is where he thinks magic is supposed to be.

I completely disagree, but it is a valid point nonetheless.

G
 
Jul 13, 2009
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*casully walks into the thread*

Good morning, afternoon, evening,
I personally am wondering why humans are so close-minded. It would seem people look for inspiration inside of the magic community. Although that maybe helpful to a point, I encourage people to branch out to different subcultures and outside influences. This is not the topic of the thread just my opinion onto why the magic community around forums is stagnant, stagnant water is dangerous and so can this amazing technology known as the interweb. If you want to know more why I think the interweb is dangerous pm me and I will continue the discussion there.

Now where do I see magic advancing *Takes a seat, tail swaying*, I see magic in the future looking less like magic and more like science, or at least more theatrical. The magicians that you see on youtube are not a threat to me because, *looks around the thread* I feel they will die off. I do not mean literally I mean it figuratively; these people rarely go out and strengthen there performing abilities. Now the future of magic is going to be very diverse because there is going to be defined original styles. *Puts paw to his chest* take me for instance, do you really think I am a wolf? No it is just myself adding a subculture to my favorite thing to do performing.

I have high hopes for magic in as a whole, I hope to see the rise of Wizards, I hope to see the rise of Witches, and then I also hope to see the rise of Technology wizards. That would be outstanding, seeing magic presented as a science.


This thread has potential I think I may camp out here for a while.
*Takes a seat on the floor preparing some tea*
 
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Sep 1, 2007
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The thing is that if you're not satisfied with what you have, you can't help it.

Bull****. That's like saying people shouldn't exercise, vote, or... well pretty much do anything remotely proactive.

You have to be happy with the art to be able to help it.

No, you have to accept that things are the way they are now and then affect change. You have to embrace an ideal of constant self-improvement and evolution.

You are looking at the situation, shrugging, and muttering, "Eh, good enough."

Well, I guess we want to advance to less reveal and more street preformers.
To be more well known.

If that's the limit of your imagination, then you're not much use.

On a more positive note, what I see is a need to bring the theatricality back into magic. Sam Keen wrote in the 1990's that the current generation of men and women are consumed by post-modernist archetype. The Post-Modernist seeks instant gratification in favor of a purpose and path. They pursue individualism, but is a way that leads to self-destruction and a lack of long-term fulfillment.

In bygone eras, the goal was less to live in a series of moments with no regard for the previous moments or any in the distant future, but to become larger than life by having a clear path. Hell, even Jack Kerouac had more structure to his life than most people today have.

Magic is ostensibly an art of mystery and wonder. It should be larger than life.

My first recommendation for magicians to begin improving is to start reading not only magic performance theory, but also the history of theater as well as books on psychology (and in particular archetypes and the collective unconscious) and the works of Joseph Campbell.
 
when i heard advancing the art, there are a few things i think of. Either A: making new tricks and new ideas to bring to the table and have them help advanced our learning. Or B: bring the magic to people who have yet to witness magic. most Everyone has seen a painting, or a picture of a painting, and heard music, or seen a clay pot. But not everyone has seen Magic. to advance the art we need to go out and "spread the word" of magic. we need to go to someone who maybe has heard of magic, but has never seen it. to show them the possibilities of what magic can do to them and others. not saying that we should have magicians at every resturaunt and grad party, but we should atleast be able to go to someone and be like, have you experienced magic? and hopefully the person can say yes.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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when i heard advancing the art, there are a few things i think of. Either A: making new tricks and new ideas to bring to the table and have them help advanced our learning. Or B: bring the magic to people who have yet to witness magic. most Everyone has seen a painting, or a picture of a painting, and heard music, or seen a clay pot. But not everyone has seen Magic. to advance the art we need to go out and "spread the word" of magic. we need to go to someone who maybe has heard of magic, but has never seen it. to show them the possibilities of what magic can do to them and others. not saying that we should have magicians at every resturaunt and grad party, but we should atleast be able to go to someone and be like, have you experienced magic? and hopefully the person can say yes.


*ear perks*

I like your thought, but that won't necessarily advance magic. Showing people whom otherwise do not see magic is good. But it doesn't advance our magic because no advancements have been made.

Now this goes back to my original post with the outside influences, if you were to influence people of a different culture to become magicians. I am certain that they would come up with there own styles of magic and with the creation of new styles will come with new magic, effects, and methods.

Look at China Lian Bian,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep3jRiISTO0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAAyUO_9r1o

India magic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv7YNGwtCE8 (awesome video, he even shows how to handle a heckler)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBLed3VIp2U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rx-gwylXlA (Great example of presentation)
 
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G when I yelled opinion that was at a guy who said delete all fourum opinions, not you dude.
No we havn't reached the peak, but at the moment we're at the best.
People want to see more preformers, mroe generics, so that they can outshine them.
And no youtube reveal.
STEERPIKE
Dude,what I meant by satisfied is, you have to be able to withstand it to make it better. Tolerance=change, I'm not saying don't act, I'm saying be pprepared not to.
I'm not saying good enough, i'm saying I COULD LIVE WITH IT.
I could live in the forest, with noone but myself and rotten eggs with bettle juice, forever.
I COULD, but I WON'T. You have to be prepared for the worst, by being comfortable with it, to change the best.
THINK about it before you reply.
 
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