Where to go from here?

[Gabriel Neeld]

Hello readers of this thread. My name is Gabe and I've been doing magic for approximately 3 years now. I've recently come upon an issue. Where do I go from here? What do I learn? How do I progress? Magic has been my life since I started but I need direction. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

re: Apologies if a thread like this already exists, I really couldn't be bothered to search at this moment in time.

 

[Zombz]

Send me a pm we can talk about it

 

[Tower of Lunatic Meat]

Let's start with this:

What books do you have? What magic are you into? And what are you currently working on?

 

[Gabriel Neeld]

Let's start with this:

What books do you have? What magic are you into? And what are you currently working on?

I have various books. TEatCT, Modern Coin Magic, The Tarbell Collection, and various others. I do primarily close-up; cards, coins, sponge, chop cup, and a bit of mentalism. I'm currently working on larger illusions (mostly andrew mayne) but its so hard to know where to look and what to do. Motivation/inspiration is another big problem.

 

[Tower of Lunatic Meat]

You say you do close up. Have you looked into any Ring magic?

Larger illusions: parlour magic? Or stage magic?

 

[RealityOne]

I really couldn't be bothered to search at this moment in time.

So why should we spoon feed you information that you likely will ignore because you can't be bothered to put in hard work?

I have various books. TEatCT, Modern Coin Magic, The Tarbell Collection, and various others.

Again, if you can't be bothered to list what books you have, any DVDs you have, what you perform -- why should we bother to provide you with any guidance.

From what you said, my advice is READ the books you have. If you have the Tarbell set, you have enough material to last a lifetime - IF YOU COULD ACTUALLY BE BOTHERED TO PUT IN THE EFFORT.

Motivation/inspiration is another big problem.

Nothing in life comes easy. To move to the next level you need to put in the hard work. Set a goal for yourself. Do you want to have a stage show, do you want to perform in restaurants, do you want to do a talent show, etc. Then work toward the goal.

 

[Gabriel Z.]

Hey my name is Gabe too...... weird. Anyhow, much of what I was going to say has been said. Like Brett said , you have to ask yourself what you want to accomplish and what kind of magic are you into? Is it cards if so what in particular do you want to do with cards. I would recommend reading and re-reading The Royal Road to Card Magic, Expert Card Technique, and The Expert at the Card Table. From what I have read when you fuse these three books together , and learn them inside and out you can become a top-flight card man. It's almost like a chemical formation of Hyrdrogen and Oxygen making water....Pretty neat stuff. This does not mean that you can expel all the other literature from your shelf , you need those to grow as a magician. For instance you said you have Tarbell , there is a lot of stuff in there that you can learn; cards, coins, spongeballs you name it. Hope this helps a little.

 

[DominusDolorum]

Practice your technique. Effects mean nothing if your handling is unrefined. You should be putting in hours of practice, and your enjoyment of magic should come from the practice you put in. RealityOne is correct in saying that you should be putting in the effort to look over the material you have, because your resources are right there. You need to really buckle down and work at it.

Reading magic books is key, but knowing how to read them is extremely important. Look over the following link:
http://dananddave.com/editorial/read-magic-book/

If you want to talk more, pm me. Zombz and I talk all the time.

 

[ladexterite]

TEATCT alone can do you good for a long period of time.

 

[Gabriel Neeld]

You say you do close up. Have you looked into any Ring magic?

Larger illusions: parlour magic? Or stage magic?

I do some basic ring magic (that being finger ring). I do a bit of parlour (Egg bag, chop cup, cups and balls, and mentalism again.) I also have been working for larger illusions.

 

[Gabriel Neeld]

So why should we spoon feed you information that you likely will ignore because you can't be bothered to put in hard work?



Again, if you can't be bothered to list what books you have, any DVDs you have, what you perform -- why should we bother to provide you with any guidance.

From what you said, my advice is READ the books you have. If you have the Tarbell set, you have enough material to last a lifetime - IF YOU COULD ACTUALLY BE BOTHERED TO PUT IN THE EFFORT.



Nothing in life comes easy. To move to the next level you need to put in the hard work. Set a goal for yourself. Do you want to have a stage show, do you want to perform in restaurants, do you want to do a talent show, etc. Then work toward the goal.

I have have many, many books. I have DVD's. I'm not asking what to do to learn better tricks. I said I couldn't be bothered to list them all because that's irrelevant. I'm asking for help knowing how to structure my learning so it's not detrimental. I want to know what to practice and where to go from here. I've done beginner and intermediate stuff. I perform for people often. I need to know HOW to practice and how to progress.
Furthermore, I've read my books. I get the "tricks." I get magic. I don't get how to know what I know. Or how to practice so I'm ready. I need help developing my personality.
I have goals. I'm working towards a restaurant gig. How do I structure my routines? How do I present myself?
What I need help with is taking myself from a kid who knows magic tricks to a performer.
I put in hard work. Hours of it. It's just gotten to a point that I feel like I'm circling back on information and instead of PROgressing I'm REgressing.

 

[Gabriel Neeld]

TEATCT alone can do you good for a long period of time.

I know cards. I know magic. I need to know how to progress as a magician, but also as a character and entertainer.

 

[RealityOne]

I have have many, many books. I have DVD's. I'm not asking what to do to learn better tricks. I said I couldn't be bothered to list them all because that's irrelevant. I'm asking for help knowing how to structure my learning so it's not detrimental. I want to know what to practice and where to go from here. I've done beginner and intermediate stuff. I perform for people often. I need to know HOW to practice and how to progress.
Furthermore, I've read my books. I get the "tricks." I get magic. I don't get how to know what I know. Or how to practice so I'm ready. I need help developing my personality.
I have goals. I'm working towards a restaurant gig. How do I structure my routines? How do I present myself?
What I need help with is taking myself from a kid who knows magic tricks to a performer.
I put in hard work. Hours of it. It's just gotten to a point that I feel like I'm circling back on information and instead of PROgressing I'm REgressing.

Now that's alot better. I'm sensing some passion rather than laziness. Notice how you've refined your questions. Notice how your response lets us actually sense your frustration.

Start your journey with the best book on performing -- Ken Webber's Maximum Entertainment. Next, I'd recommend Larry Haas's Transformations -- the subtitle tells it all "Creating Magic Out of Tricks." The first 20 or so pages are pure gold. Larry's ideas about how to create a performance piece are what you are looking for. Depending on where you want to go, there are a lot of other great theory books by Eugene Burger, Robert Neale, Jeff McBride, Juan Tamaritz, Peter McCabe and others.

The books and DVDs that you have are the building blocks. In there are the effects that speak to you - the effects that you just love to perform. I'm sure you are drawn to certain writers and magicians -- for me it is Giobbi, Tamariz and Steinmeyer. There is a reason you are drawn to certain magiciains -- they present magic the same way that you view magic.

I think the key question you have to answer is WHY? Why do you want to progress in magic? If your goal is a restaurant gig, then exploring stage illusions is a waste of time. If your goal is kids parties, then exploring bizarre magic really doesn't move you forward. If your goal is a close up card show, then the egg bag is a distraction.

I'm willing to help you, but only if you are willing to put in the work necessary to focus on your goals.

 

[RealityOne]

TEATCT alone can do you good for a long period of time.

So can banging your head against a desk. EATCT is poorly written, difficult to understand and at times technically inaccurate. Without a sufficient foundation in card magic, you are setting yourself up for frustration and failure.

 

[Timewise64]

You are getting some good stuff here.....

Let me add my $0.02 worth! As far as how you can improve your techniques and presentation many on here talk about using a mirror when you practice, of course you already know that. Also, many on here record themselves doing a routine or particular trip. Then study and learn from that. If you are really brave and have thick skin, post your recording on this website asking for feedback. It is all free and you can take it or leave it, but you will learn from that....

Good Luck...show us what you got!

 

[Gabriel Z.]

You are getting some good stuff here.....

Let me add my $0.02 worth! As far as how you can improve your techniques and presentation many on here talk about using a mirror when you practice, of course you already know that. Also, many on here record themselves doing a routine or particular trip. Then study and learn from that. If you are really brave and have thick skin, post your recording on this website asking for feedback. It is all free and you can take it or leave it, but you will learn from that....

Good Luck...show us what you got!

Well said timewise64...... criticize this suckas j/k lol ....

 

[Rev]

So can banging your head against a desk. EATCT is poorly written, difficult to understand and at times technically inaccurate. Without a sufficient foundation in card magic, you are setting yourself up for frustration and failure.

I'm glad someone finally said it!

It really irks me when people recommend Erdnase to beginners. A cult seems to have formed around it despite it being everything you said. At most, it's an interesting piece of history and worth reading if you into that sort of thing. I've read it, but wouldn't perform anything from it in the same way as I wouldn't perform anything from 'The Discovery of Witchcraft' (if you don't know what that is...look it up).

Rev

 

[Gabriel Neeld]

Now that's alot better. I'm sensing some passion rather than laziness. Notice how you've refined your questions. Notice how your response lets us actually sense your frustration.

Start your journey with the best book on performing -- Ken Webber's Maximum Entertainment. Next, I'd recommend Larry Haas's Transformations -- the subtitle tells it all "Creating Magic Out of Tricks." The first 20 or so pages are pure gold. Larry's ideas about how to create a performance piece are what you are looking for. Depending on where you want to go, there are a lot of other great theory books by Eugene Burger, Robert Neale, Jeff McBride, Juan Tamaritz, Peter McCabe and others.

The books and DVDs that you have are the building blocks. In there are the effects that speak to you - the effects that you just love to perform. I'm sure you are drawn to certain writers and magicians -- for me it is Giobbi, Tamariz and Steinmeyer. There is a reason you are drawn to certain magiciains -- they present magic the same way that you view magic.

I think the key question you have to answer is WHY? Why do you want to progress in magic? If your goal is a restaurant gig, then exploring stage illusions is a waste of time. If your goal is kids parties, then exploring bizarre magic really doesn't move you forward. If your goal is a close up card show, then the egg bag is a distraction.

I'm willing to help you, but only if you are willing to put in the work necessary to focus on your goals.

Thank you for this feedback. I try not to come off as harsh, you're correct about frustration. My goal isn't exact yet but maybe it should be. My goal would be to be able to make magic my income for now. Being a teenager that means only a few gigs a month but that is what I would like to work for.
As for why? Well I suppose because magic not only makes me happy, but its infectious in that it does that for everyone. I like to share that.
I'm willing to put in work. I've just been cautious of wasting time lately.

 

[Fredrick H.]

I would second everything RealityOne said. Larry's book is fantastic and if you have a passion for magic it will really get the fire going.

For me I think what helps is finding what not only the end goal is but how you want to be perceived as a magician. Do you want to be funny, serious, silent, unpredictable, a little off, sarcastic, etc. This is the idea of magic character which helped me a lot in choosing what type of magic to work on. Know how I wanted to present allowed me to see what works for me and what I can put my originality to.

I would say too, look at videos of well known magicians that perform well. Find ones you like the style of because that will help to. I love Tommy Wonder (as I am sure many here do) as well as Tom Stone, Guy Hollingworth and Jonny ACE Palmer.

 

[RealityOne]

Thank you for this feedback. I try not to come off as harsh, you're correct about frustration. My goal isn't exact yet but maybe it should be. My goal would be to be able to make magic my income for now. Being a teenager that means only a few gigs a month but that is what I would like to work for.
As for why? Well I suppose because magic not only makes me happy, but its infectious in that it does that for everyone. I like to share that.
I'm willing to put in work. I've just been cautious of wasting time lately.

So the question is, how do you make income from magic? More specifically, where would you perform? What type of performance would it be (close-up, parlor, stage, kids, etc.)?

Once you answer those questions, I'd be glad to help you develop one or more shows. A show is more than a collection of tricks, but rather is something that is tied together with your character .