who else doesnt want the dvd?

[Phenomena]

i think of myself as a smart fellow...a smart fellow with a budget

this of coarse is about tricks such as panic and distortion, being avaible without the dvd...like just the gimmicks

i havent baught them yet, i know the secrets of both tricks however...and in my opinion, dont really need the dvd's to tell me what to do to make the trick effective

now some may argue otherwise for various reasons, but im confident in my skill and social skills to pull this stuff off...

as id love to get both tricks, im in no situation to fork out 60$ when i believe i dont even need the dvd's

so the question is...(and probably wont be answered with 100% certainty, and yes i know this topic was probably made before)
is...are, and if so, when will the separate gimmicks be avaible?
and if so, what is the price range for each approx?

i dont believe it should be mandatory to have the dvd's in order to purchae the gimmicks alone...

will they be avaible on october 1st (or whatever the next release dates are for the effects) or will it be much further down the road (as i really wanna get these tricks asap....)

jaja ty
Phenomena

 

[Jack The Magician]

will they be avaible on october 1st (or whatever the next release dates are for the effects) or will it be much further down the road (as i really wanna get these tricks asap....)

The Distortion gimmick can be bought, separately, on October 1st. However, it is only available to those who have already bought the DVD. The same will apply to the Panic gimmick, but, I'm not sure when that will be made available.

I don't think that the gimmick and the accompanying DVD should be mutually inclusive. However, the DVD does offer valuable advice and tips to enhance to the use of the gimmick and the performance of the effect. Further, it helps prevent bad management of the effect and gimmick, which would then be performed on youtube or on the streets, so poorly that the trick would be revealed.

Cheers,
JTM

 

[Dizzi]

the reason only DVD holders will be able to get the gimmick is because people wpould buy it and learn it wrong, screw up etc. Niot to mention youtube3 exposure....

 

[Phenomena]

well as i said, im a smart guy lol

i always practise twice as much and think of many patter lines of each tricks depending on the situation
but honistly i really believe that for myself, i dont need the dvd to utilize the skills properly...

and i dont expose...

 

[Jack The Magician]

well as i said, im a smart guy lol

i always practise twice as much and think of many patter lines of each tricks depending on the situation
but honistly i really believe that for myself, i dont need the dvd to utilize the skills properly...

and i dont expose...

Not everyone is as skilled as you are -- you're the exception, not the rule .

With the Distortion gimmick, the DVD offers some valubale tips that if I did not follow, would have led me to ruin the gimmick. However, that's me. But the improper use of gimmicks and their subsequent destruction would be a head-ache for theory11 and its customer service department. Moreover, it's more profitable to sell the gimmick with the DVD, and then sell additional gimmicks to those who already have it .

Cheers,
JTM

 

[Cardmagic12345]

OK theres no way you know how to do distortion with out some sort of exposure so buy the dvd and get the gimmick.No one is that smart

 

[drorange]

they do this to stop people from uploading the dvd for anyone to download as the dvd is useless without the gimmick. It also makes more money if the gimmick alone was avalible i would only purchase it and work the trick out for myself.

 

[Jack The Magician]

No one is that smart

Well, the guys who came up the effect must be. So, I'm sure that some people will be able to handle it, but not most.

It also makes more money if the gimmick alone was avalible i would only purchase it and work the trick out for myself.

I'm not sure about that -- lets say that there 10 people; 5 people buy the effect with the DVD for $125 (5 x $25), 1 of the other 5 people decide to buy the DVD because they cannot buy the gimmick separately, bringing the total revenue to $150. Also, consider the option of buying the gimmick separately for $12.50 (half the price of the DVD + gimmick) and all ten people buy it, bringing the total to $125. Thus, selling the DVD with the gimmick is more profitable than selling the gimmick separatly, even though more people buy it.

they do this to stop people from uploading the dvd for anyone to download as the dvd is useless without the gimmick.

I agree with that to an extent -- there would be an incentive for people to download the DVD, if they were able to buy the gimmick without it; however, most of the people who buy the gimmick without the DVD do so not only to save money, but also because they don't want it.

I'm not sure if there is a correct answer to whether the gimmick must be sold with the DVD.

Cheers,
JTM

 

[Phenomena]

but thats just it, it should be up to the customer to decide what he or she wants to buy, not be forced to spend another 20$ when they feel they dont need to

OK theres no way you know how to do distortion with out some sort of exposure so buy the dvd and get the gimmick.No one is that smart

umm it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out how its done
i even created my own gimmick, needless to say its not close to the quality of the professional one (created it without seeing the gimmick/dvd)

 

[black_dove]

getting a bit close to exposure there buddy... lets keep it clean ok?
Yeah im for and against selling the gimmicks by themselves, it has its
pros and its cons.

 

[cklam]

but thats just it, it should be up to the customer to decide what he or she wants to buy, not be forced to spend another 20$ when they feel they dont need to

OK theres no way you know how to do distortion with out some sort of exposure so buy the dvd and get the gimmick.No one is that smart

umm it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out how its done
i even created my own gimmick, needless to say its not close to the quality of the professional one (created it without seeing the gimmick/dvd)

and the panic gimmick is quite obvious too, just have to rule things out

50 cards disappear
can be done naked
hmm, maybe he didnt have 50 cards in his hands?
ok so if he didnt have 0 cards in his hands, how did it look like he did...
LIGHT BULB FLASHING

Just go make your own gimmick and stick with that then. It's not close to the quality of the professional one? Well then, improve it till it gets to professional quality, since you emphasized so much that you are smart.

Give some respects to those who created the effects by buying their dvds if you want to perform them.

 

[Jack The Magician]

Just go make your own gimmick and stick with that then. It's not close to the quality of the professional one? Well then, improve it till it gets to professional quality, since you emphasized so much that you are smart.

There's no need for hostility, or any reason to attack him. He, as a customer, is suggesting how theory11, in his opinion could improve. I'm sure it's welcome.

Aaron Fisher posted this, and it's a great response to whether the DVD should be mandatory, if one wants to buy the gimmick:

Hey Guys,

As you may guess, my very first Panic was handmade - i was afraid it wouldn't fool people. Of course, I'm always concerned about that when i have a new trick, so that's nothing new. As i found out, homemade gaffs will work - sort of. i got away with the trick, but i was always paranoid. i knew when i had the props assembled professionally, i'd feel a great deal better.

When the props arrived i was thrilled.

Ultimately, the gaffs are only a small part of what makes the effect work. The other issues i talk about on the DVD are the key to making the trick a real miracle.
After you learn THOSE lessons - the props you use (in general) won't make much difference any more - because you'll be able to do magic.

Gratefully,
Aaron

 

[AntonHolmes]

Honestly, why do you think that the Gimmicks are going to be that much less than the cost of the DVD?
Think about it, how much does it cost to make the coins for Digital Disolve compared to the price that they charge you?
If you buy quality hand made card and or coin gaffs, you are going to pay almost the same amount as the DVD anyhow. You can pay up to $10 a card or more for good product, and a lot more for good coin gaffs.

Besides that, it's not really ethical to just watch the performance and think, I know what to do, and then only buy the gimmick, especially for something like Panic where (as far as I'm aware) the routine is original to Aaron.

Aaron spent a long time working on the routine and needs to be paid for that time, if you intend on using his ideas, is what it comes down to.
Otherwise come up with your own gimmicks and routine.

 

[Jack The Magician]

Honestly, why do you think that the Gimmicks are going to be that much less than the cost of the DVD?
Think about it, how much does it cost to make the coins for Digital Disolve compared to the price that they charge you?

I understand that, but if the DVD with the gimmicks is $24.95 or $34.95, then the gimmicks by themselves wouldn't cost more than that because it wouldn't make sense as a business decision. For example, if I want to buy a replacement for my Distortion gimmick and it costs $24.95 or more, as you stated, then I might as well by the DVD with the gimmick for $24.95. That's why it's a forgone conclusion that the gimmicks will cost less than the package with the DVD. But, I guess we'll have to wait until October 1st to find out.

Aaron spent a long time working on the routine and needs to be paid for that time, if you intend on using his ideas, is what it comes down to.

If the gimmick, without the DVD, is being bought Aaron Fisher is still getting paid, but not as much. But, as a magician, let's say I want to create my own routine, and not follow Aaron's, shouldn't I be able to buy the gimmick and then make it my own? But, I guess Aaron Fisher answered that question above.

(I have Panic, with the DVD, and I love it; but, I'm playing devil's advocate to reveal the other side to the debate. )

Cheers,
JTM

 

[Phenomena]

Just go make your own gimmick and stick with that then. It's not close to the quality of the professional one? Well then, improve it till it gets to professional quality, since you emphasized so much that you are smart.


theres a difference in being able to figure out a trick know how to construct the gimmick
and being able to aquire the resources needed

mayb its just me, but nearly every magic dvd i have seenfor a trick, when talking about performance and angles etc is just common sense
as i said, to each his own, but i dont think its right FORCING people to buy stuff they dont want/need in order to accomplish a single trick.

If the person chooses to buy just the gimmick, and ignores the dvd, and his performance suffers because of that, then its his fault...but one should be given the choice

as much as i dislike E, this is one area where i like what they do
u can buy accessories for tricks without buying the dvd's

box monster, gaff deck etc

 

[AntonHolmes]

I understand that, but if the DVD with the gimmicks is $24.95 or $34.95, then the gimmicks by themselves wouldn't cost more than that because it wouldn't make sense as a business decision. For example, if I want to buy a replacement for my Distortion gimmick and it costs $24.95 or more, as you stated, then I might as well by the DVD with the gimmick for $24.95. That's why it's a forgone conclusion that the gimmicks will cost less than the package with the DVD. But, I guess we'll have to wait until October 1st to find out.

I understand what you're saying, but from a business point of view the refills may be only slightly less than the cost of the DVD, say $20 or $30, as you are really paying for the secret, which the gimmick holds as well as the DVD, and the physical items which you receive.

(I have Panic, with the DVD, and I love it; but, I'm playing devil's advocate to reveal the other side to the debate. )

Cheers,
JTM

Somebody has to I like doing it too.

 

[aznofspades]

well as i said, im a smart guy lol

i always practise twice as much and think of many patter lines of each tricks depending on the situation
but honistly i really believe that for myself, i dont need the dvd to utilize the skills properly...

and i dont expose...

u sound kinda like me
what u should do is try to reverse engineer the tricks
not to be cheap, but to get your creative juices flowing

try it

 

[AntonHolmes]

theres a difference in being able to figure out a trick know how to construct the gimmick
and being able to aquire the resources needed

Then maybe you are not quite as smart as you need to be in order to not need to buy the gimmick and DVD.
Think about it this way, if you buy the gimmicks for $25 or $35 then you are getting the DVD free. As far as refills go, once you have paid for the secret, and already using the gimmicks they give you a discount to keep you happy.

 

[AntonHolmes]

u sound kinda like me
what u should do is try to reverse engineer the tricks
not to be cheap, but to get your creative juices flowing

try it

I really think that you guys are going down the wrong path.
This is why all the best magic should be released and kept in books and not DVDs. To sit down and read it takes more effort and imagination than to just watch a DVD or clip and think that you know how it is done.

 

[The Dark Angel]

I really don't think that 30 dollars for a DVD that comes with the gimmick, teaches you an alternate routine, and goes in depth into the subtelties that makes it better is too expensive.