Why are Jason England's downloads so expensive?

I realize he has been doing a lot of card technique, but feel just because you are experienced, that you have to charge more.. I mean.. I get it.. your buying his experience.. but honestly.. I just want to learn the sleight and could care less about paying for his experience. I am not saying I want to learn from somebody that doesn't know, but I think it might be a good idea for him to re-evaluate how much he charges. Sometimes I want to make multiple download purchases and look at his and think to myself.."**** that.. 10 bucks??" and would rather spend 12 dollars on two. I think one of his 1-on-1s in almost 13 bucks... for a ****ing zarrow shuffle? Really..

He seems like a nice guy who knows his ****.. but as a magician who would want to buy more of his stuff.. the ****'s way overpriced man...
 
Aug 19, 2009
84
0
I have purchased nearly all, if not all, of his 1on1s, and have been highly satisfied with them. Each has gotten progressively better in teaching methods. I especially appreciate the history of the techniques he teaches, and many tips on how to learn/practice the move. In the bottom deal he actually shows several bottom deals as a progression of learning, explaining the pros and cons of each. I expect it will be years before I'm interested in additional resources, aside from the source books he mentions.

To sum it up, I'd say they are well worth the money and underpriced if anything.
 

Deryn

Elite Member
Sep 4, 2007
655
13
Tampa Bay, FL
www.instagram.com
I don't think it's expensive at all. You said it yourself that you're buying experience. He's one of the best around when it comes to mechanics like this and you have the audacity to sit there and cuss up a storm because YOU don't want to pay for it?

He goes very in depth on all of his 1on1's and for you to just complain about the price makes me think that you don't want to learn properly, from a true seasoned professional, like Mr. England.

Put yourself in his shoes: you've had over 20+ if not 30+ years of experience and made a HUGE mark in the magic world. For you to invest your time in putting together a 1on1 for others to learn, sharing your knowledge you've learned in the decades you've dedicated to the art, would YOU sell it for $5?

I mean, seriously, it's $10... maybe $13? Too expensive? or are you to cheap?

He puts out quality. If you want crap, venture to youtube where all the jokes of our craft learn.

What you did was just disrespectful to him, T11, the rest of us that actually give a damn about it and not complain about the price.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,773
2,882
If you don't like the prices, don't get them. Easy as that.

The 1on1s are those prices because knowledge is valuable. Experience is valuable. Expertise in obscure skills is also valuable. Jason England has all of those, thus the products he puts out are valuable.

Personally, I'm surprised he's letting these things go for so little. Were I in his place, I would probably not be so generous to the online community, as it's pretty obvious how that community repays such efforts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sep 2, 2007
87
0
Las Vegas, NV
Why so expensive....? Let's see....

He bought multiple resources to learn each slieight and learn other's thoughts and variations on the move.

He put in the hours learning them.

He went to different conventions and venues to seek out those who were the best at these sleights, got their respect and trust to where they'd show him the moves and nuances. by the way, old school teachers, if they didn't know you from Jack, you ask about a bottom deal, they'd just demonstrate, ask "did you see it?". If you didn't, they'd tell you to come back tomorrow. Says a lot about Jason in that they confided their secrets to him, not to mention how dedicated he was to card sleights that he'd even put the time and resources into learning them.

Ya know, you can always come to Vegas and ask him to give you a personal one on one... flights out to vegas from Florida are going for $400-$600 now... not including room and board, transportation and food, or his fee for a private lesson.

... and Jason traveled to multiple venues to get the information. Why would he devalue his investment by giving it out for $5?

Look at it another way: the 1-on-1's that are "cheap" aren't the mainstay of any of the T11 artists current acts. Would you give your best stuff for $5/download? Where some kid can get your download, at best, do your trick justice; at worst, perform it poorly; or even worse, expose it on YouTube. The current 1-on-1's probably reflect most of the artists good but simple stuff. If you want the great stuff, they're going to charge you much more.

moreover if you watch his one-on-ones, you can see that what's on the video is how he performs the sleights/tricks in his professional card shark demonstrations.

maybe we ask jason for a 1-on-1 that he'd value at $5, and see what he puts out in regards to complexity of the trick/sleight.

Me? I'm absolutely happy about every JE purchase I've made here.

If you want a $5 bottom deal download, I'm sure you can find one somewhere... I know I wouldn't. As complex of a move it is, just the fact the artist is giving it away for $5 will make me skeptical. 'Cause it will either be too good to be true, meaning "I got a crapload of info for cheap!" or... it 'll be a plain $5 download.

I'll let you buy it first, then read the review you post in the forums.
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
Well his most expensive one is the bottom deal and that is only $15. Whilst this is a lot of money for one move it is taught for half an hour. I have seen DVDs that teach everything on foundations that total not much more than half an hour. Remember Jason is one if not the worlds best at performing these technequies and for him to teach them to you it is truly learning from the best.

If you are worried about the cost you should just save a few more dollars and get foundations. I am sure that Bayme will release foundtions two when Jason has some more 1 on 1 s to fill a second DVD.

Ultimately if you think they are too expensive do the simple thing and not buy them.
 
Feb 16, 2009
217
0
South Bend, IN
I realize he has been doing a lot of card technique, but feel just because you are experienced, that you have to charge more.. I mean.. I get it.. your buying his experience.. but honestly.. I just want to learn the sleight and could care less about paying for his experience. I am not saying I want to learn from somebody that doesn't know, but I think it might be a good idea for him to re-evaluate how much he charges. Sometimes I want to make multiple download purchases and look at his and think to myself.."**** that.. 10 bucks??" and would rather spend 12 dollars on two. I think one of his 1-on-1s in almost 13 bucks... for a ****ing zarrow shuffle? Really..

He seems like a nice guy who knows his ****.. but as a magician who would want to buy more of his stuff.. the ****'s way overpriced man...

The center deal is available as a download for a mere $9.95

Just read the above sentence again.

You know the whole story behind Dai Vernon and the Kennedy Center Deal right?

Do you have any idea how much Dai Vernon spent to travel multiple times to Kansas city in the hope of finding Allen Kennedy? Neither do I, but it must have cost much more in today's dollars than $9.95. Also, imagine the investment of time and energy that he had to put in.

Jason England and theory11 are giving you access to a secret that was once so jealously guarded many people thought it was impossible. You are getting it for peanuts my friend.

Also, if you look at the other 1 on 1's he has released, many of them are fundamental techniques that will enable you to do absolute miracles if you master them. Things like the Second deal, the bottom deal, the push through false shuffle, the diagonal palm shift and the classic pass will take you years to master on your own. With Jason's 1 on 1's you might be able to cut down a couple of years in your learning curve. That kind of guidance is available for a pittance on this site.

In short, Jason's 1 on 1s are definitely worth it because they are fundamental aspects of card technique that open up millions of effects to you. Such things used to really expensive 50 years back and as a student you had to show real dedication and put in serious effort to have any access to them. We guys have it very easy in the internet age. Let's not forget that.

P.S. Your comment about the Zarrow Shuffle is a really uninformed one. The Zarrow shuffle is a very hard sleight to do convincingly IMHO. Too many people mess it up because they think the mechanics are easy. Jason's 1 on 1 might enable you to actually do the move right, unlike 95% of people out there who are only fooling themselves with their shoddy execution.
 
Nov 7, 2009
502
0
WHAT THE HECK!
There unpriced if anything!

Long ago if you wanted to learn a move like the bottom deal you would have to travel across the world to find someone like Jason and gain his trust (could take 2-3 years) before he would teach you it. And know your moaning that you can get it for 10 bucks. Its a steal there easily worth 30 bucks for each of them.
 

RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,638
469
43
Louisville, OH
I have learned a lot in magic thus far but one thing that I have noticed is that most of the time you get what you pay for.

If you buy a $5 magic prop and whine because it breaks after two days...you probably should have bought the $20.00 version that was constructed better.

Experience is VERY valuable as many of you have stated.

Our ring Wed. night was having a discussion about Doc Eason's lectures and how the price is outrageous and they are always kept on the down low for the very serious magicians.
 

Mike.Hankins

creator / <a href="http://www.theory11.com/tricks/
Nov 21, 2009
435
0
Sacramento, Cali
Steve Forte, another of the world's finest gambling experts out there, had a VHS tape set that was priced at $300 and I THINK that was PER tape. (It has since been remastered and put out on DVD, for $99 now.) But here is the thing...on those tapes, DVDs, whatever...the moves are actually NOT taught. So you can see how well guarded these techniques are/have been. And while you CAN learn these techniques from other various DVDs out there, I seriously doubt that you will get such lengthy instruction on one technique alone as you do from the 1on1s found here. Though I would like to point out that another great resource for learning the Zarrow would be well, Zarrow's DVD. Though I did find the 1on1 here a lot LESS boring. :)

Mike
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,773
2,882
If you just want technique, just download the EATCT.

Actually I own EATCT. I bought the bible edition because I like to have physical books to read instead of being stuck in front of my computer.

However, you're over simplifying things. Yes, you could get the book and learn the techniques, then study them for ten years and be good. Or you could get the book, learn the technique, watch some videos, talk to other people and get tips, and maybe, just maybe get some face time with someone with a lot of experience and cut that down to maybe two to five years to get pretty good.

See the difference?

Only a fool would overlook such valuable resources as instruction from experts that have already figured out what the student is trying to figure out right now.
 
Dec 12, 2009
273
0
London Uk
me personally I take these 1 on 1s as alternatives, I have NEVER ever needed a video resource for any sleight in till I started working on the bottom deal, the 1 on 1 helped me a lot!!

I would not recommend to use the 1 on 1 as your only sole teaching resource and nor do the artists that make these 1 on 1s.

The price is reasonable I have not seen anywhere where the teacher focuses on one move for 35 minutes in so much detail.
 

Mike.Hankins

creator / <a href="http://www.theory11.com/tricks/
Nov 21, 2009
435
0
Sacramento, Cali
me personally I take these 1 on 1s as alternatives, I have NEVER ever needed a video resource for any sleight in till I started working on the bottom deal, the 1 on 1 helped me a lot!!

I would not recommend to use the 1 on 1 as your only sole teaching resource and nor do the artists that make these 1 on 1s.

The price is reasonable I have not seen anywhere where the teacher focuses on one move for 35 minutes in so much detail.

Never, EVER use a 1on1 as the ONLY source of information to learn a technique. (That is, unless the 1on1 is the ONLY place to learn it...lol)

For that matter, don't JUST rely on books to learn your magic either. Videos are out there to help the student, not to take away. Learning from BOTH books and videos is where it is at!

Plus, if you live near an actual magic shop or a local SAM or IBM ring, join or go! Meet up and trade off moves...as Sidekick said: Talk to other people, trade off secrets and get help with other ones. Just do NOT use YouTube to do this...PLEASE!

Sidekick, there are actually a few resources out there that focus on just one move. Herb Zarrow's Zarrow Shuffle DVD is but one of many.

Mike
 
Dec 14, 2007
817
2
And you wonder why many 'old timer' magicians seem reluctant to associate or help some younger hobbyists.

I remember when one book came out a year and we were thrilled.

To learn something like the bottom deal you had to find someone who could do it - you might be able to find a guy a couple states away who sort of could.

I'd be willing to bet that Jason has been working on this move longer than you have been in magic and maybe longer than you have been a live.

It is because of this experience that he has not only mastered the technique but can share it in a way that is clear and instructive.

And to say that $20 or whatever is too much to pay for someone's lifes work, to suggest that the experience and technique are somehow seperable is a combination of ignorance and arrogance on an offensive scale.

Want to be respected by those who know more than you?

Try showing some respect for the dedication and investment made by them in order that you may benefit from THEIR work.

Spoiled little child.
 
Nov 7, 2009
502
0
And you wonder why many 'old timer' magicians seem reluctant to associate or help some younger hobbyists.

I remember when one book came out a year and we were thrilled.

To learn something like the bottom deal you had to find someone who could do it - you might be able to find a guy a couple states away who sort of could.

I'd be willing to bet that Jason has been working on this move longer than you have been in magic and maybe longer than you have been a live.

It is because of this experience that he has not only mastered the technique but can share it in a way that is clear and instructive.

And to say that $20 or whatever is too much to pay for someone's lifes work, to suggest that the experience and technique are somehow seperable is a combination of ignorance and arrogance on an offensive scale.

Want to be respected by those who know more than you?

Try showing some respect for the dedication and investment made by them in order that you may benefit from THEIR work.

Spoiled little child.

Well said :)
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
It's 10 bucks. It's not exactly going to break the bank and really it's a lot less money than you'd be spending on other magic DVD's or downloads. Hell the video for the Zarrow Shuffle was like 10 bucks, and the book that goes into extreme detail on the move is around 130 bucks.. So think about that.
 
Sep 6, 2009
285
0
Cincinnati
Oh sh!t, dude, don't you know? You can't criticize Jason England here. It's Theory11. If you do, people will bash you and get their little training-bras in a twist.

(and yes they're over-priced. But, I'm not saying this. You didn't hear it from me)
 

S.G

Feb 9, 2010
664
1
Oh sh!t, dude, don't you know? They only "bash" when you make retarded comments. You should really keep some comments to yourself.

-G
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sep 6, 2009
285
0
Cincinnati
Nice post edit man :D

Please, I don't want to start an argument. It's ingorant to tell me to keep a comment to myself, this is an open forum, meant to express opinions on products. Since when could I only say something if it was praise? Sometimes people need a little wake-up call.
 
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