Retention Vanish

[SpillsAndPills]

Hey guys, (I'm new to this forum), but anyway, I am having a bit of trouble with the retention vanish. I've been practising on and off for the last 2 months now but I can't get it too look the way I want it to look. Sorry- my camera is broken atm but I will make a video of it. Just some good tips about timing and speed etc would be great EDIT- My retention is sort of like this guys here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80A_R6c-7h4 but in more of a horizontal position with a slight angle. Thanks!

 

[SKSleighofHand]

I am not a coin expert, but gosh, you have serious sleight of hand going on. (It's a good thing). But, you fooled me quite good. However, you may want to hear from other coin experts.

 

[True2Coins]

You definitely have WAAAAYY too much action going on with both hands. You don't need to flex your left hand when you draw the coin back, all you need to do is get it into finger tip rest position. Then when you put it into the right hand, you put it square into the palm which gives you more room for error because they can see you steal the coin out. If you put the coin more into the crotch of the thumb, it looks more casual. Next, if you close the fingers together, don't start the actual move until your pinkies touch. THat was when you are actually covered to do the move and they don't see the index finger flaring like I did.

 

[SpillsAndPills]

You definitely have WAAAAYY too much action going on with both hands. You don't need to flex your left hand when you draw the coin back, all you need to do is get it into finger tip rest position. Then when you put it into the right hand, you put it square into the palm which gives you more room for error because they can see you steal the coin out. If you put the coin more into the crotch of the thumb, it looks more casual. Next, if you close the fingers together, don't start the actual move until your pinkies touch. THat was when you are actually covered to do the move and they don't see the index finger flaring like I did.

Sorry if you guys misinterpreted what I said. This is not my video, I just said that I will give you a link soon and that my retention vanish looks a bit like that. I will have a video for you to view in no time. Thanks!

 

[Chicken]

The retention is nice, but it's not too natural. It doesn't feel like you casually put a coin into the other hand, since the "putting" hand doesn't relax after the "put."

 

[lorenwade]

The retention is nice, but it's not too natural. It doesn't feel like you casually put a coin into the other hand, since the "putting" hand doesn't relax after the "put."

It truly depends on how you do it. There are many, many variations. Some look better than others. They each have their pros and cons. But there are quite a few that look very relaxed.

 

[Chicken]

I meant his retention. the retention of vision was nice, but the hand that placed was unnatural. Sorry for the awkward wording.

 

[scottbaird]

Agreed with the above comments.

But in actuality, a retention vanish should look like you transferred an item (or coin) from one hand to the other.

And, done naturally, this is both a PUT and a TAKE. Both hands meet in the middle.

Try to make your retention look less like a move, and more like your own personal natural movements.

Scott.

 

[Mr.Ection]

Its tuff to give you any pointers without actually seeing you do the pass. But off the top of my head i'll just say that its mostly about the timing. It'll take a while to get the timing down. Its not really something you can just learn and do. It takes trial and error. As far as the action of the retaining hand is concerned (the right hand in my case), like mark said you want to let it fall onto fingertip rest. There are other versions of the pass that leave the coin in other places and im sure some of them are great but for me it looks best and the hand looks most casual and relaxed ( like its supposed to) when you go straight into fingertip rest and let your hand hang limp like liberace.

Here is a video of me doing it several times just incase you'd like to see what i'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvuGKxgKFTI

In the video i almost instantly reproduce it so there isn't much time where i'm holding out and have to make my hand look natural. But Hopefully you can get a sence of the timing. I let it burn for a somewhere between a quarter and half a second right up in the crotch of my thumb then close my hand pull away and let it pop onto fingertip rest. You might also notice i sort of rock the coin forward then back as a put it into my hand. I do that to make sure that it catches the light and really burns the image into your brain so that i can get the best rov possible.

Hopefully you can get a video up and then we can all see what needs work. Good luck.

 

[SpillsAndPills]

Its tuff to give you any pointers without actually seeing you do the pass. But off the top of my head i'll just say that its mostly about the timing. It'll take a while to get the timing down. Its not really something you can just learn and do. It takes trial and error. As far as the action of the retaining hand is concerned (the right hand in my case), like mark said you want to let it fall onto fingertip rest. There are other versions of the pass that leave the coin in other places and im sure some of them are great but for me it looks best and the hand looks most casual and relaxed ( like its supposed to) when you go straight into fingertip rest and let your hand hang limp like liberace.

Here is a video of me doing it several times just incase you'd like to see what i'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvuGKxgKFTI

In the video i almost instantly reproduce it so there isn't much time where i'm holding out and have to make my hand look natural. But Hopefully you can get a sence of the timing. I let it burn for a somewhere between a quarter and half a second right up in the crotch of my thumb then close my hand pull away and let it pop onto fingertip rest. You might also notice i sort of rock the coin forward then back as a put it into my hand. I do that to make sure that it catches the light and really burns the image into your brain so that i can get the best rov possible.

Hopefully you can get a video up and then we can all see what needs work. Good luck.

Oh hey acebrawler73 I've seen so many of your vids on youtube they're pretty cool. I'm ac/dc4life36 so I can add you if you want. And yeah I will have a vid up soon, just my camera is broken

 

[SpillsAndPills]

Hey also where did you learn your retention vanish- wich books or dvds. I just learnt it off coinvanish.com in the foundations sections. It's actually a very good description, you should check it out.

 

[Mr.Ection]

Um. Well i've taken in a lot of information on it. David Stone's Coin Magic Volume 1, David Roth's Expert Coin Magic Made Easy Volume 2, jay sankey's revolutionary coin magic. I toyed around with a lot of different right hand action to eventually just come back to the pretty standard david roth style retention pass. There are other sources too that i wouldn't directly credit my retention pass too but they probably influenced it. Like a few of the new york coin seminar dvds and the palms of steel dvds. I wouldn't recommend learning your retention pass from silver dream like somone above suggested. I thought the way justin taught it was quite weird. It was almost like david williamsons retention clip but....well, just learn it from roth and you'll be good. And the timing and little touches will come with time.

 

[Chicken]

ahaa, I actually learned mine from silver dream. The one of the David Roth tapes is... different. I actually like the silver dream one more, since when working with silver dollars, the edge grip that the clip flows smoothly into is easier than the classic palm that the Roth vanish goes into.

 

[SpillsAndPills]

Thanks for your help guys and you I've practiced in front of the mirror and it has turned out to be loads better. I'm using a technique like yours Mr.Ection and watching your video really inspired me. In just a little bit of time it is all starting to come together! Also, since I am on school holidays i have plenty of time to burn lol. ( I do have a life ). Anyway thanks oh yeah and one last thing. How long did it take you guys to get a good retention vanish? Days, weeks, months. Thanks.

 

[Chicken]

Years. Years of thought.

 

[Mr.Ection]

haha yea. I'd have to agree with chicken. I've been working on it and different variations of it for 3 years. Im not quite sure when it started looking like it looks now but probably around a year ago. So.... i guess 2 years. But that was with a lot of trial and error and trying different things. If you just sit and practice roths method over and over you may speed up the learning curve.

And chicken, im sure the way justin taught it (essentially wiliamsons method) can look good. Making it look good is all about the timing anyway. But it was just a little too fiddly for me.