Good kind of exposure?

[Eddie]

Hey guys,

I was just wondering if it's cool to have a public video on giving tips on a well known sleight?
I made a private video on my own tips on improving your elmsley's count(if you're having trouble with it) and I do go over and expose it a little bit to give a better explanation to it. If I made it public(via Youtube) will it be bad?

The reason I want to make it public is I'm seeing the elmsley's count being butchered when it is so easy to make it look more deceptive. I just want to help everyone who is doing magic or starting magic instead of bashing them. It's better to help than start a riot.

 

[MagicianGA]

Eddie,
If you really want the T11 comunity to se your improvments for Elmsley Count, why not to post the video in the Media Section of the site. If you do it like this, it's not exposure, because our comnuity is well trained Wink Wink
If you upload it on the Tube, then yeah, it's a fukin exposure.
Thank You, MagicianGA!

 

[Eddie]

It's not just the T11 community that I want to show, it's the whole magic community in general.

Also... wow I was hoping for more help than just 1 response. Why is it that everytime I make a thread seeking help here, I barely get any?

I must've(once again) came to the wrong place for help...

 

[FOO:L]

"Also... wow I was hoping for more help than just 1 response. Why is it that everytime I make a thread seeking help here, I barely get any?

I must've(once again) came to the wrong place for help... "

usually id say whiny.. but no, i'll help.


the exposure that youre talking about is what we aim to stop. Just because the sleight is "well known" doesnt mean that it is known by everyone. Hell, the double lift is well known, but we all look down on the kids "teaching" DLs on youtube because its not ethical to our art. It is not your move to teach.

I do see your good intention, but the count is not your sleight and therefore, it would not be right to teach it, especially on something as open as youtube.

 

[copperfield 14]

Well I don't find anything wrong with teaching an elmsley's count. Laymen can't do it or remember it and new magicians can't do it. These tutorials for double lifts and elmsley counts will help alot of magicians. They helped me and I know they help others. Although it's wrong to make a tutorial for a trick like indecent.

 

[FOO:L]

dude i was going to cite indecent as an example in my post. haha

anyway, i see your point about how it helps new magicians, but surely, the exposure will not help in the long run. Already, there are too many magicians whos source of knowledge comes not from mentors or books or dvds or videos that most of us pay money for, but from the horrid teachings of 10year olds on the tube.
Sure, many who watch the tutorials on youtube will eventually find sites like E or penguin or t11, and progress,but i still feel that exposure of sleights or tricks and whatnot is wrong, i cant do much to stop it, but its still ethics.

 

[Eddie]

"Also... wow I was hoping for more help than just 1 response. Why is it that everytime I make a thread seeking help here, I barely get any?

I must've(once again) came to the wrong place for help... "

usually id say whiny.. but no, i'll help.

Of course I'm whining. You expect me to sit here with just 1 response in over 11 hours when I really need advice? You expect me not to do anything?

Thanks for the help though.

 

[blahblah]

I think its a good idea, I think you should put it on as many magic sites you can, some of em are gonna refuse the video probabbly, but just try it

 

[Jack Webster]

Hey guys,

I was just wondering if it's cool to have a public video on giving tips on a well known sleight?
I made a private video on my own tips on improving your elmsley's count(if you're having trouble with it) and I do go over and expose it a little bit to give a better explanation to it. If I made it public(via Youtube) will it be bad?

The reason I want to make it public is I'm seeing the elmsley's count being butchered when it is so easy to make it look more deceptive. I just want to help everyone who is doing magic or starting magic instead of bashing them. It's better to help than start a riot.

well i think it is so for easy starter tricks. Also tricks that aren't being sold any were, people pay good money buying something than they can just get it free on youtube. also its not good for people who are starting to have hard tricks, because they won't be able to do them wright than do it to people and they will see how the trick is done, than when people like us do the trick well they will know how to do it. Some people say that there should be NO expoursure at all on youtube, i disigree and agree at the same time, Some tricks are ok.

 

[BlueCuzco]

I think posting explanation material is perfectly ethical as long as the effect explained is not being sold by the magician who created it or the magician who has proper rights to it. Of course, there's also the bit about the fewer magicians who know a certain sleight the better it is, but I really don't think that magicians who have any sort of skill are common enough that such would actually effect laymen.

 

[Eddie]

Well aren't most sleights and tricks(except if it's your own creation) already explained in other books and DVDs? So I'm guessing it's not right to put my tips on the Count right?

 

[FOO:L]

actually,i think you can put up your tips on the count or variations on various magic sites, but not the basic teaching.

 

[praetoritevong]

I dunno man, it's a tricky question. On one hand, you have very good intentions - on the other, numerous people are right on several accounts; it's not your move, the questionable nature of posting videos of this sort of thing to begin with... To be honest, I really don't know, I'm torn about the moral argument. You're not teaching the actual move, there's a little bit of exposure but it won't help the people we don't want to expose magic to.

So I'm gonna look at the practical effect. Honestly, the amount of people who would look at such a video and actually benefit from it, (and this may be a cynical opinion) would be very little. In fact, the ones who would look at it, and either discard it, or make a half-attempt, or just be disappointed you didn't teach the entire move, would far outweigh the former. So in fact, I feel as though putting it in such a public arena would benefit very few people.

What do people do when they want tips on sleights? They ask, for example here. So a suggestion might be to make the video, and simply make it available for magicians who show interest. The consequences of exposing a little of the Elmsley to many outweighs the very few who genuinely want to learn - and of these, if you want to find something, you will. These guys, that want to learn, are the awesome guys who genuinely research help. And that, is where your video should come in in practical terms. I know that my Elmsley is terrible. I know the moves as such, but I've never ever had to use it (perhaps a reflection on me as a magician ). I just don't have many effects where it has been necessary to false count, and in the one or two that do require counts, I have others I can use.

Anyway, the point is, I think that in reality, the benefits of placing such a video on YouTube would not go very far; nonetheless, it's great that you want to help.