Trick answers

Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
^^That's one of the most immature things I've ever heard. I don't really give a crap if you're working your way through college: would it hurt you to save up, and respect the creator and the distributor?

So if your worried about people steeling your tricks then heres an idea: create something original and people wont figure it out.

I love it when people say this. Magic is created for LAYMEN, not for magicians. It doesn't matter if magicians figure it out; if you steal it, then you obviously like it enough to perform it, so like I said before... does it really hurt you that much to respect the creator and marketer? :rolleyes:
 
Dec 10, 2007
204
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^^That's one of the most immature things I've ever heard. I don't really give a crap if you're working your way through college: would it hurt you to save up, and respect the creator and the distributor?



I love it when people say this. Magic is created for LAYMEN, not for magicians. It doesn't matter if magicians figure it out; if you steal it, then you obviously like it enough to perform it, so like I said before... does it really hurt you that much to respect the creator and marketer? :rolleyes:


im not asking for your empathy im just explaining my view on the situation. And as far as the originality i fully understand who magic is intended for, but if your so called original trick only consists of 2 double lifts and a pass... its not really original. So if im using my own patter and a reproduction of every other card trick ever invented what am i paying for. If you arent bringing anything to the table you dont deserve the money. If you make something woth paying for i will buy it, but if its that obvious i may just show it to a couple of friends and be done with it.

Will it kill me to save my money, well no but i have priorities and my books and food come before magic sorry. And if i am going to save my money for magic i will save it for something worth paying money for something original that i feel will be wothy of adding to my routine. For example i know the clipshift (the correct method) but i will still be buying the DVD because its an original move that i feel is woth the money and there will be several tricks that utalize it.

Im not asking for you to empathise im just stating my case and my views on the matter.
 
Sep 4, 2007
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im not asking for your empathy im just explaining my view on the situation. And as far as the originality i fully understand who magic is intended for, but if your so called original trick only consists of 2 double lifts and a pass... its not really original. So if im using my own patter and a reproduction of every other card trick ever invented what am i paying for. If you arent bringing anything to the table you dont deserve the money. If you make something woth paying for i will buy it, but if its that obvious i may just show it to a couple of friends and be done with it.

Will it kill me to save my money, well no but i have priorities and my books and food come before magic sorry. And if i am going to save my money for magic i will save it for something worth paying money for something original that i feel will be wothy of adding to my routine. For example i know the clipshift (the correct method) but i will still be buying the DVD because its an original move that i feel is woth the money and there will be several tricks that utalize it.

Im not asking for you to empathise im just stating my case and my views on the matter.

The creator made something. He made it worth your practice and your performance. In essence you're using what he created.

It doesn't have to be some completely new and original material, for crying out loud. What's with the obsession with new sleights? You don't need someone to tell you when to do a double lift? Well, here's why you should give credit to the creator: he put the sleights in a sequence that creates a routine which you like.

An example. Poetry is not just words. It's the right words in the right order, just as magic routines are the right sleights in the right order, granted that you put a reasonable amount of focus on your patter as well. The poet didn't create the words. He didn't write the dictionary and doesn't have any ownership over any word unless in special circumstances. Certainly not "I own 'you'!" at any rate. In magic, routines are important.

Wanting to use someone's material means that it is already worth it to you. If you want it so much, respect the creator and buy it. He came up with it first. His performance was the source from which you got inspiration to perform the effect. Not acknowledging and giving your thanks for that would be a slap in the face.

I feel that if you don't do so, you need to review your ethics in magic.

Edit:

I have something to add, something to ask.

Let's say you have a friend who is into magic as well. He shows you an effect in which he performed well, but you figured it out. He doesn't give you permission to perform it; in fact he says he'll be selling it, but you do it anyway. How, then?
 
Nov 25, 2007
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my opinion is that if you can get the trick from the demo, good job. They put the demo for you to see the trick. If you went outside, and saw wayne perfoming stigmata, and you figured it out, your not ripping him off. Be like E, t11 and edit/edit out the parts that may have revealed to much.

Its the creators fault if people can see the video and understand it.
 
Jun 10, 2008
921
1
Newcastle upon Tyne
my opinion is that if you can get the trick from the demo, good job. They put the demo for you to see the trick. If you went outside, and saw wayne perfoming stigmata, and you figured it out, your not ripping him off. Be like E, t11 and edit/edit out the parts that may have revealed to much.

Its the creators fault if people can see the video and understand it.

This, is the downfall of modern magic.

I'm sorry, but this kind of attitude is disgusting. It just doesn't make sense. Using this logic, somebody with a fundamental knowledge of magic can stroll down to the magic store and get one of the guys there to demo a few tricks, and steal them, with no remorse. and it is theft, okay, 'intellectual property'.
The pathetic thing is, it doesn't help anybody. It impacts the creator, obviously, but it also impacts the thief. without the actual instruction, published after countless performance's of the effect in question, the thief misses out on the subtleties, and finesse that has been developed in order to make the effect really work. Of course, if you are willing to carelessly steal from somebody who actually contributes to the art, then i guess you're probably not much of a magician anyway, and so won't really see the value in these intricate touches.

I'm sorry, but magic is not, i repeat NOT created with the intent of 'fooling' magicians, it is created for laymen, who don't have a knowledge of sleight of hand, so the whole 'it's your fault if it's easy to figure out' argument falls flat, i'm afraid.
I, among others, have tried talking sense. But so far, it looks pointless.

you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can lay down a paragraph of what should be obvious advice, but you can't make an idiot think.

Transmission end.

C!
 
Dec 10, 2007
204
0
This, is the downfall of modern magic.

Of course, if you are willing to carelessly steal from somebody who actually contributes to the art, then i guess you're probably not much of a magician anyway, and so won't really see the value in these intricate touches.

I'm sorry, but magic is not, i repeat NOT created with the intent of 'fooling' magicians, it is created for laymen, who don't have a knowledge of sleight of hand, so the whole 'it's your fault if it's easy to figure out' argument falls flat, i'm afraid.
I, among others, have tried talking sense. But so far, it looks pointless.

you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can lay down a paragraph of what should be obvious advice, but you can't make an idiot think.

Transmission end.

C!

Using a trick that you have been able to figure out in no way has anything to do with your skill in magic. Just because you arent willing to spend a bunch of money on things you already know how to do does not mean that you are incapable of performing at the same level as someone that does pay for it (which in many cases is some 12 year old whos parents bought him the dvd for his b-day and performs it after watching the DVD the first time). And as far as the "theif" being hurt as well, it only hurts them if they feel that the "subtleties" are worth the 30 dollars for the DVD. As i have said before if the trick is worth the price of the DVD i will pay for it.

An example would be Steve Freeman's Time machine. Excellent trick i love it. But i know with out a doubt how its done. Now im not going to go out in search of how to perform this trick as i already know how. I dont think that there is much more to it. Would i ever perform this in a show i was doing? no. I just like to perform it for some friends and family because i enjoy magic and i enjoy practicing. I do it because its fun, not because i need this trick to take me to the next level of magic.

So say i have the money for the book that it is in or DVD, i could spend it on that a trick i already know how to do, to give money to the guy that created it, or i could spend it on another book or dvd for something that i may not know how to do or i feel has more material to my liking in it. Well im sorry if im more concerned about my financial status than Steve Freeman's. Yes I'm grateful he created the trick but if i want to continue to practice new things i wont waste money to learn something i already know.
 
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
^^You realize that it's people like you that make magic creators want to stop releasing their material, right? :rolleyes:
 
This is going nowhere...

Look, there's nothing inherently wrong with figuring out a magic trick by the preview video. I wont lie I've done it a few times and I'm sure others have as well. The thing is that you're only making your own magic worse by doing so. What you learn in the preview video is a general idea of how its done. You only learn a minuscule fraction of what is taught on the DVD.

Great, you learned it for free. At a cost, you don't get the in depth teachings of the original creators. You get a one angled method that really wont have much benefit to you. I've done the exact same thing and went out to perform the trick that I learned from the preview video to no avail. It was probably the worst performance I had ever given.

So congratulations for figuring out the trick! You've just got a general idea. No in depth teachings and original ideas by the creative mind of the creators.

Mitch
 
Sep 1, 2007
457
0
San Diego
A baboon will learn to eat, but we cannot teach it to use silverware.
Someone lock this thread.

............riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiightt.......

magic is for laymen, if you figured out somethign by the demo video, good job. technically you can feel free to go out and perform it (if you can).

all youre missing is the in-depth teaching that makes the trick THAT much more powerful, youre missing sublties that improve the reactions. you miss out on altenate methods and routines.

the only thing youre doing is being highly unethical

DAVID J CASTLE WANNA-BEES!!!!!!!!!
 
Nov 17, 2007
20
0
i figure out about 85% of the perviews i watch(which is a lot) about whether u can then perform it is something different. i am got between 2 minds because i believe that the creator should get respect for his creation but if you know straight away how its done then the trick wasnt that creative. i personally dont perform tricks i have igured out myself(most of the time), this isnt because i didnt buy it its because i only perform tricks that have fooled me. thats where i get the joy of learning from. buying a trick and waiting for a few days dying to find out how to do it so you can perform it. i have to say though that i have perform a few tricks i figured out. i see a lot of people talking about missing the presentation and patter etc, but i never use them anyway. i dont use patter except in story tricks because i just go with the flow and interact with my audience except having a script and i always completely change a tricks presentation to make it my own and not me doing someone elses trick its me doing someone elses trick my way. so if i figure something out i dont use it because it didnt fool me or complete change it to be my trick using there method. an example of this is a sucker is born every minute for me is a card trick.
 
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
i figure out about 85% of the perviews i watch(which is a lot) about whether u can then perform it is something different. i am got between 2 minds because i believe that the creator should get respect for his creation but if you know straight away how its done then the trick wasnt that creative. i personally dont perform tricks i have igured out myself(most of the time), this isnt because i didnt buy it its because i only perform tricks that have fooled me. thats where i get the joy of learning from. buying a trick and waiting for a few days dying to find out how to do it so you can perform it. i have to say though that i have perform a few tricks i figured out. i see a lot of people talking about missing the presentation and patter etc, but i never use them anyway. i dont use patter except in story tricks because i just go with the flow and interact with my audience except having a script and i always completely change a tricks presentation to make it my own and not me doing someone elses trick its me doing someone elses trick my way. so if i figure something out i dont use it because it didnt fool me or complete change it to be my trick using there method. an example of this is a sucker is born every minute for me is a card trick.

I refuse to respond to that until you invest in a spell checker, or type like you're above the age of two. :rolleyes:
 
Sep 3, 2007
1,231
0
Think about standing face to face with a creator of an effect and telling him "I learned your trick "answers" by watching and figuring it out. It's really easy you must not have done it good enough..." I doubt you'd say it because you KNOW it's the wrong thing to do. You are insulting the creators by doing this and when it comes time that you buy an effect from the creator you already ripped off you're insulting them further. Who wants to sell something to some kid who has a history of ripping them off?

The reason I cheated on my college exam is because I couldn't afford the textbooks... That makes it okay right Professor? Right???
 
Sep 3, 2007
1,231
0
The whole title of this thread "trick answers" is a display of pure ingenuity. So then you do this, then this, and turn over the card... Surprise you're tricked! The "question" is this, then this... The "answer" is Magic.
 
Nov 25, 2007
95
0
if you see a preview and figure out the trick thats good. case closed. I think its idiotic to think that the creators putting demos on their vids, and you figuring it out is bad. IF THEY DIDNT WANT THE DEMO TO BEEN SEEN, THEY WOULD HAVE WRITTEN IT OUT, OR NOT INCLUDED IT. Its not like they HAVE to put one on. It helps sell the effect.

Its your opinion of whats right and wrong, and if you make a trick you will see.
I would like to ask david misner how he feels if someone learned a trick from his pdf, just bye the video.
 
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