Consecutive Bottom Deal with full deck

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by Cardeyron, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. Hi,

    I need to get a consecutive bottom deal with a full deck for different magic and gambling effects, and also cause I do all my false deals with full deck...

    That was my first attempt:


    In fact, this video was the answer to a question I wondered: Why Erdnase put so many energy to describe the top palm whereas his mastered technique was the bottom deal ? I found the above answer...

    But back to the consecutive bottoms, in this video, I use something Marlo described as "modified Erdnase grip", a kind of master grip. Moreover, I know Jason England recommand the Gene Maze Grip for that, but I don't feel it very natural in my hands, and hard to do with full deck.

    Have you a recommandation to get this false deal as natural as possible.
  2. I am not a gambling expert, but I thought you did fabulous on your first attempt. I admire your overhand shuffle skills, too!
  3. Nearly every mention Erdnase makes of the bottom deal is in the context of having known cards on the bottom. He also says:

    "Bottom dealing is little used with a full deck."

    As for dealing consecutive bottoms, Erdnase says:

    "When the bottom cards must be taken consecutively, it is an aid to crimp them very slightly, or to jog them a little, i.e., to allow them to protrude about an eighth of an inch at the side. But neither of the manoeuvres is desirable, or necessary to a good performer."

    It seems highly doubtful to me that Erdnase advocated or used a top palm and replacement to control a top stock in order to then deal consecutive bottoms from a full deck. Much more likely he preferred controlling cards to the bottom, palming them out and replacing them after the cut, and then bottom dealing at the appropriate time.

    Finally, while you posit that your solution must be the reason why Erdnase spent "so many energy" to describe the top palm, you seem to ignore the fact that he spends just even more energy describing the bottom palm.
  4. Yes, I agree, and my video was just a simple idea and in no case a claim on Erdnase. Moreover, that's not the principal thread's subject.

    In the first part of the book, erdnase speaks all the time about real cheating, and in this case, I agree with him on all his words, but i speak about cheating demo or magic effect, not the same thing.

    But anyway, thanks for your comment. Thanks to SKSleightofHand too.
  5. That was pretty good for a first attempt I must admit. You have a some knuckle flash on the take and the get ready but that just comes with practice, and you nearly have to have knuckle flash for an Erdnase type push out.
  6. Your first attempt is good =]
    I just started to do bottom deal, and I am also using the modified Erdnase grip right now.
    I start with that grip instead of Gene Maze Grip because, in my opinion, I may be able to handle the Greek deal easier in the future.........
    (If I am wrong, please correct me~ I saw, or I should say I "remember" that the grip of the Greek deal is also using the modified Erdnase grip.......)
  7. I push out bottom cards with my left fingers, but I do it diagonaly, so we can't see the movement in detail. For the knuckle flash on the get ready, I tried long time ago to hide it, now it's virtually invisible (at least for a regular bottom deal)

    poonchingyip, I think modified erdnase grip is poor for a greek deal. In my opinion, the best for that is the mechanic's grip.
  8. I'm not trying to diss you or anything, but you wanted thoughts, but I don't think its virtually invisible. It's definitely better than a lot of other i see try to bottom deal, but i wouldn't say its invisible. I have some finger flash on my deal too. I have been working on it myself.
  9. Yes, I just wanted to told the video dated 5 month ago, and that I improved the problem of the knuckle flash. And of course, all comments are welcomed, I don't wanted to appear rude.

    But it's my fault, I forgott to tell something important in my firt post, when I asked for recommandation, I asked particularly about grips.
  10. Ah I'm sorry, I thought you said the video was recent. For grips, I have known people to say, and i have asked laymen myself by displaying both grips, that laymen don't find it odd at all. The Erdnase grip, or modified, is a great grip for bottom dealing because the diagonal pressure is very important to supporting the cards and the middle finger is better at keeping this pressure than the index finger in my opinion. It's really a lot about getting used to the grip in my opinion, and I know others have said the same.

    And the best way to make a false deal to look more natural is like any move, do what you are simulating a few times, and try to either make your bottom look more like your top, or make your top look more like your bottom, or meet somewhere in the middle. I know people who deal tops naturally but when they bottom deal they do a huge wrist kill, which doesn't look natural at all because it doesn't line up with how the other cards are being dealt. So I think grip wise, you are doing quite well, if the grip feels natural in your hands, it won't look unnatural to laymen. Now just work on making all your deals look the same, which you are definitely on your way of doing.
  11. Ok, thanks a lot for advises.
  12. #12 JDENredden, Nov 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2010
    Wait what, we can embed videos now?

    I thought it was pretty good. You will get better with practice.

    Some suggestions are, the deal at the start of the video was a very different style to when you did the bottom deal. They should both look identical. It also looks like you are taking the card in a very deep grip in your hand, and when you put it on the table, it looks odd. I'm not sure, if thats whats going on. It just looks like the card is appearing after you move your hand. haha.


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