Derren Brown Shows

[eostresh]

Yes, in fact, what I aim about is to be able to demonstrate in a "real" game of poker (wich by the way I don't play) that we can spot, memorize and stack card. My ultimate goal, if possible, is to be able to memorize a deck of card just by peaking at it while shuffling. Maybe impossible, I don't know, but that's what I want to do ultimatly (and that was why I wanted to check the "speed reading" technic by Derren). But first, I want to be able to memorize a deck of card spread around the table in , let's say, 20 second or less and after that, control and stack the card to have a good poker hand.

It sounds to me that you really need to be studying some good gambling magic. Everything you say you want to do can be accomplished from a memorized card stack. That's one stack of cards you must learn that will last you the rest of your life. From that point forward it is a matter of controlling the deck. Also learning to add particular cards in and palm them out can help you here. It is great that Derren inspired you, and make no mistake he is an excellent card guy himself, but his particular brand of card magic is more influenced from styles like Guy Hollingsworth. That is a beautiful, elegant, and almost "Victorian" style of card magic but i'm not sure that is what you are after.

You need to go to youtube and look for gambling demos from guys like Steve Forte, Ricky Jay, and Richard Turner. That sounds more like of what you are after.



***Edit*** on further reflection Ben Earl may be more specifically what you are after. But I'm pretty sure he studied the guys I listed above before developing the style he has today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97b2qCVBykI

 

[Jay Adra]

Yes, in fact, what I aim about is to be able to demonstrate in a "real" game of poker (wich by the way I don't play) that we can spot, memorize and stack card. My ultimate goal, if possible, is to be able to memorize a deck of card just by peaking at it while shuffling. Maybe impossible, I don't know, but that's what I want to do ultimatly (and that was why I wanted to check the "speed reading" technic by Derren). But first, I want to be able to memorize a deck of card spread around the table in , let's say, 20 second or less and after that, control and stack the card to have a good poker hand.

That's ambitious, and if you were able to succeed at doing that, then you would be one of the few in the world who could do that.

However, as magicians, we know ways of making look like that's what we're doing, when we're actually using a much simpler method.

My recommendation would be to just memorise a stacked deck and then false shuffle it. Then you would know the order (because you've had all the time you want to memorise it before the 'trick') and you can do what you want from there. If you stacked the deck so it deals a good poker hand, you can simply deal the cards out after false shuffling. Or if you've memorised the stack, you can perform some effect using that information as a basis of the method.

If you want to do it during an actual game of poker, if you've got the same deck type, you could do a deck switch for your stacked deck and then go into it.

If however you want (and I fear it is) to legitimately be able to memorise a deck by riffling through the faces, I will just tell you now that it will be near impossible. I'm afraid I don't know enough on the subject to offer advice on where to start researching for it, but Google is always my starting point.

Good luck.

 

[Goldmos]

Thank you for your advice. For the record, I did think about a memorize deck, but the thing is I can't do it impromtu, or at least to a certain degree. That is why I want to learn some good memorization technic. I will ,however, probably begin with a memorize stack to train myself to false shuffle, stack, cull and other manoeuver to control the card where I want them. I ask Jason England for some advice on gambling demo and he said: learn the basic, go for Card college vol 1 and 2, after practice false shuffle, false cutting and false dealing. He also point out, because I show him a youtube video about a guy with an incredible routine, and he said: go check Darwin ortiz, Guy hollyworth and Andrew Wimhurst. They all have some similar routine ( I did some reasearch before asking . But ultimatly, I really want to be able to memorize the card to simulate a real poker game.

If you are curious about the routine that I talked with Jason, here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK_O8G5V_Tc

Enjoy!

EDIT: I did also check the book from Daniel Madisson How to cheat at card and I think there is some peak technic. I ask about this book to Jason, but he didn't red it so he couldn't comment on it. And if you want, you can check a French guy named Franky le tricheur, he can memorise a complete deck of card within 15 sec.

 

[eostresh]

Okay this is good. You gave us something to work with...chiefly among them some performances that have inspired you to pursue this path. Okay first, realize that there are other ways to do this without quickly memorizing a deck. They are not easy but more practical than actually memorizing a deck in a few short seconds. There are effects in which you spot a four of a kind in a face up spread and then work your way to a production of the four of a kind. That is probably what you want to work for to begin with. Regardless, all those controls, false shuffles, false cuts, and false deals are generally prerequisites for those types of effects.

Next you have to understand the concept of pseudo-methods. Pseudo methods have become quite handy for magicians who present themselves as normal people(no magical gifts) who give the appearance of magical feats only due to the fact that they have become masters of a particular type of skill. Pseudo-methods are things that are sort of true but mostly B.S. So for instance, Derren Brown does some effect in which he claims he can pull it off because he has studied quick memory techniques for years. No in truth, the effect does require a bit of memory to perform but generally there is also a clever method behind it that takes care of 70% of the success of the effect. The same can be done in card demos, and in fact I do things like this. For instance, I have a bottom deal that will get past laymen but it is not good enough to get by them if they are really burning me at the moment of the bottom. Since half the point of a gambling expose' is that people get to burn your hands and try to catch the move I flat out lie about what I'm doing. I claim I'm dealing bottoms when I riffle stack instead. When I say I'm going to riffle stack a hand of poker I deals bottoms. If I were to claim to stack a full deck into new deck order, I'd routine in an opportune time for a cold deck.

I am not saying that those are any of the techniques DelGaudio uses. Indeed if they were they are so well honed that I couldn't see it. But then that is why he is landing TV spots and I only find opportunities to demo gambling moves to a live audience once every month or two.

So just remember that magicians lie. Heck deception is at the heart of what we do. You probably don't believe that David Copperfield can actually fly, so why do you believe Derren Brown can determine your birth date from miniscule body language quirks you are giving off? Why would you believe a card magician can memorize a randomized deck in 15 seconds when he could simply use a stacked deck and learn some false shuffles? As James Randy loves to say, "If (insert famous Psychic here) is really doing that with a sixth sense, then he's doing it the hard way!"

 

[Goldmos]

Okay this is good. You gave us something to work with...chiefly among them some performances that have inspired you to pursue this path. Okay first, realize that there are other ways to do this without quickly memorizing a deck. They are not easy but more practical than actually memorizing a deck in a few short seconds. There are effects in which you spot a four of a kind in a face up spread and then work your way to a production of the four of a kind. That is probably what you want to work for to begin with. Regardless, all those controls, false shuffles, false cuts, and false deals are generally prerequisites for those types of effects.

Next you have to understand the concept of pseudo-methods. Pseudo methods have become quite handy for magicians who present themselves as normal people(no magical gifts) who give the appearance of magical feats only due to the fact that they have become masters of a particular type of skill. Pseudo-methods are things that are sort of true but mostly B.S. So for instance, Derren Brown does some effect in which he claims he can pull it off because he has studied quick memory techniques for years. No in truth, the effect does require a bit of memory to perform but generally there is also a clever method behind it that takes care of 70% of the success of the effect. The same can be done in card demos, and in fact I do things like this. For instance, I have a bottom deal that will get past laymen but it is not good enough to get by them if they are really burning me at the moment of the bottom. Since half the point of a gambling expose' is that people get to burn your hands and try to catch the move I flat out lie about what I'm doing. I claim I'm dealing bottoms when I riffle stack instead. When I say I'm going to riffle stack a hand of poker I deals bottoms. If I were to claim to stack a full deck into new deck order, I'd routine in an opportune time for a cold deck.

I am not saying that those are any of the techniques DelGaudio uses. Indeed if they were they are so well honed that I couldn't see it. But then that is why he is landing TV spots and I only find opportunities to demo gambling moves to a live audience once every month or two.

So just remember that magicians lie. Heck deception is at the heart of what we do. You probably don't believe that David Copperfield can actually fly, so why do you believe Derren Brown can determine your birth date from miniscule body language quirks you are giving off? Why would you believe a card magician can memorize a randomized deck in 15 seconds when he could simply use a stacked deck and learn some false shuffles? As James Randy loves to say, "If (insert famous Psychic here) is really doing that with a sixth sense, then he's doing it the hard way!"

Wow, I really like to read you. There is indeed some very valid point in that. I though in one point to only spot some card (like a royal flush) and stack/control/shuffle them in an order to deal them to me. And trust me, I'll practice this for sure because it's the "simplest" way to do it. But the problem I see with that is, you can only do that in a "set up" situation. I would like to devellop some technic that I can use in an impromtu setting. For example, we (friends and me) are playing with card at a certain time and after some game, they ask me to perform some poker demo. This would probably put me in an "hot water" situation if I can only do that by looking directly at the card. I know they probably wont mind if I do that because it will be a "demo", so they will know that I do some things to control the card. But, I would like eventually (and remember it was for that reason that I ask about some speed reading technic or memo technic) memorize some of the card that was dealt before I begin the demo and arrange them in a way to put me winner. I'm not aiming to produce a royal flush everytime, but a winning hand wich is a little more "credible" if I show them whenever I shuffle and deal the card, I'll always be the winner. But of course, I'll study some routine and use some "BS" from time to time because it will clearly amaze them. By the way, do you recommand some book from Guy or another good "poker" magician to learn routine from? I must say that I didn't actually begin my research in that category yet...

Oh, and for the info, I also downloaded the false overhand shuffle from T11. It's amazing the reaction I get with only that.

Edit: BTW, eostresh, I loved your throwing star sandwich effect, great performance

 

[eostresh]

I think eventually you will get to the point where you can do similar demos from a spectators shuffled deck. Gaining the skill takes time. You first figure out ways of spotting one card and controlling that around the deck, then two, then four of a kinds and on and on. It will take you years of dedicated practice to get to something close to what DelGaudio is doing but I can assure you, practicing your card controls will get you there quicker than memory feats. For one, spotting specific cards in a shuffle is not a memory skill. It is a combination of precise control of the deck and having a good peek. I'm not trying to discourage you from learning memory skills. They surely can be a benefit, in life and magic, but if good gambling demos are what you are after you should focus on card skills first.

Funny story. There was a guy who posted on another forum a few months back showing off his dead cutting skills. He was doing a cutting to aces routine by spotting locations of aces and legitimately cutting to them. I give the guy props for honing this actual skill. The problem was that the routine didn't look any different than any other cutting to aces routine. Probably took him a year to get to the point where he could actually do that and he could have spent a month or so practicing a good "Cutting to Aces Routine." So there you are....lot of extra effort for not much extra gain.

Anyways it sounds like you are on the right track. No matter what it is going to take a long long time to get there so remember that their are plenty of amazing effects that you can be doing between here and there. Enjoy the journey!

P.s. Thanks for the kind words on the Throwing Star routine.