For the Flourishman, we are ''CUTCLONES''...

[trashmanf]

some misunderstanding

Just in case you haven't noticed, any one of the Virts can pwn any of the SH/HL forum members. Not to mention Dan and Dave. Don't believe me?

I don't believe you if you're talking about a live performance. As in, real life, Virts VS HL XCM tourney winners. If you are using editing skills, then yes, Virts/DnD can definitely put together a really exciting, high energy, montage of clips. But if we're talking about uncut battles, saying that the SH/HL forum membrs will get pwned is just crazy talk. BOTH "groups" are very skilled at what they do. But let's examine what it is that they do, in order to understand why Jerry would feel the way he does.

All year long, we get proof from the HL members of their LIVE performing skill. Virts/DnD are awesome, but they rarely (never?)post long, uncut, live routines. I think it is HIGHLY probable that they could be formidable live battlers, but we don't see that represented in their videos.

It takes WAY more skill to get a crazy aerial at the end of a two minute routine, filled with risky moves, than to just try the risky move until you nail it, and then edit it into a montage.

Since Jerry has been around cards for a looooong time and has been performing (and watching others performances!) for many many many years. So he has come to appreciate the uncut routines and the variety.

But - it's just his opinion - we should all be entitled to our own - just as you guys are to yours - so why get so mad just because jerry doesn't it?

It is totally ridiculous to say ANYONE will pwn "any SH/HL member" I mean come on we are talking about pros here. It'd be an epic battle but I don't think either side would get landslide pwned, really. they're different styles but both show real devotion to an art (or to a certain aspect of an art).

throughout history, many manipulators have devoted (limited?)themselves to a specific aspect; For example, fanning artists Goodlette Dobson and Edward G Love even get mad props from jerry in the encyclopedia for the "sheer relentless precision" as they were obsessively insane about fans!!!

DnD and their um, very loyal fans, have done a GREAT thing for the card community by obsessively exploring multiple packet cuts. However, the opinion that Jerry is trying to get across is that, it's unwise to limit yourself to such a small niche of flourishes. It's just someones opinion and no one has any right to say it's wrong or rude...

 

[UnknownEnemyZero]

UEZ,

No offense dude, I'm getting sick and tired of people like you coming to other people's forums and offending them. You don't ever see anyone from other forums bash what you do, why do you feel you need to do it to other people? If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say it.

You're so busy to criticize other people that it hurts you to the point of preventing your own progression..not to mention you're just about the most stubborn bigot that I've ever come across. You're so close minded you don't even give YOURSELF a chance to look at things from other people's point of view.

Just in case you haven't noticed, any one of the Virts can pwn any of the SH/HL forum members. Not to mention Dan and Dave. Don't believe me? Take a look at the tournament videos. The only people I have respect for are Jrunsten, Max, Ciappi, and Fatz, they are artists of my liking and caliber. Compare that to every other talented cardist that frequent forums like Decknique or dananddave. See the difference?

Speed? Don't you dare tell me speed shouldn't be the focus, Jerry's live routines are based on speed. Jerry said so himself that in his stand-up routines he aims to perform an X amount of moves in an X amount of time. That is HIS style, and if that doesn't require speed then I don't know what does. If you were an artist yourself you would know that things done fast are not only much harder to do, they are much more pleasing as well. Why doesn't Jerry do his Deck Twirls slow.......hmmmmmmm..........same reasons Sybils aren't. Dee dee dee.

Now on to the main point of your argument...why should people focus on videos that entertain laymen? This is the internet if you haven't noticed, and it's NOT a place where laymen come to get entertained!! This is a place where artists of high caliber come together to entertain and showcase their skills and ablities!! (even De'vo's website says so!!) Are you a layman? By the sound of it...I'm guessing!! That point alone should shut you up. Quit *****ing about what people do just because they can do it better.

You don't like it? Then go back to where you came from and stay there. Don't come into other people's business and tell them how it should be done when they know how it should be done.

I hope that helped clear your confusion,

-Andrei

1. I'm not here for people like you.
2. I'm here for the people who wouldn't mind looking at stuff another way and who enjoy OTHER aspects of the art.
3. Your usage of "pwn" is total fail and proves what kind of child you really are. This isn't a Counter-strike pub, this is a forum about cards.
4. Apparently, you can't get over the past, so keep working on your fans by the way.

 

[Andrei]

Actually everyone has the right to say that somebody is rude, especially coming over here and posting a comment like that coming from UEZ.

Secondly, if Jerry is whining about the Virts and others not being able to do uncut routines...why doesn't he whine about De'vo? Have you ever seen him do anything lasting for more than his CTG routine? Which by the way is a sybil...which is exactly what you complain is "overdone" and only good in videos.

I stand by my comment of "pwn"...yes the Virts can put out dazzling videos that are highly edited...but don't for a second think they cannot do Giant Fans, Deck Twirls, Armspreads, Cobras, complex formations, Sculptures, and everything else "XCM" encompasses. Watch their earlier videos if you don't believe me...but I guess you haven't been around long enough to know what I'm talking about.

"DnD and their um, very loyal fans, have done a GREAT thing for the card community by obsessively exploring multiple packet cuts." -Trashman......Ok De'vo, Jerry, and his um..religious fanatics have obsessively bashed others to seek very much needed attention to promote the art of Flourishing which is a GREAT thing for the card community. If you want to play that card.

I don't compare artists, I would never say an artist is better than another. That's why I said I stand by my comment of "pwn" because HL/SH has VERY few artists. Hence an artist..."pwning" someone who isn't.

 

[Andrei]

Ok UEZ, that made sense. Go back to SH and continue to worship. You're doing great.

 

[trashmanf]

I have seen your 21 ace video andrei and was totally amazed at your mastery of the material. I know that you and all these other guys are totally skilled and could put on a killer show if someone came up to you in real life and asked to see your chops. but to say that de'vo doesn't put out uncut routines is ridiculous because he performs live, all the freakin time. so he must have literally tons of routined material. rather than making it into an argument, I think the virts should meet the challenge head on, and make a really bad ass uncut routined video.

rather than argue about right or wrong, make a continous video showcasing variety, originality, and amplitude, and it would effectively prove the argument invalid!

 

[Andrei]

Well thanks and all but bro...if you can defend De'vo with saying he puts on shows and that is definately uncut routines then..how can you say that the Virts or D&D don't do the same? They have shows, they perform for real people too. Online, people should do as they please, and I don't think it's right when someone from that other place comes here to criticize and bash other people.

When things get live, everything changes.

 

[copperfield 14]

Just want to say that Dan and Dave have done shows and live performences. It says so on there website. Here is what it said, and I quote "In 2001 at the first MAGIC Live! convention, Dan & Dave Buck were the only ones who received a standing ovation after they performed their flourish act at the Close-Up show! Even David Blaine was impressed!"

As for the virts there have been earlier videos of them doing a few.

 

[Aris.SA]

Andrei I luv the way u shut HL and SH people up ahahhahah its funny man..

I think that if the virts or DnD make an uncut routine maybe if they dont use armspreads or something like that, HL and SH will complain about because its just about cuts.. they like cuts they are GODS with only cuts and fans, and like andrei said, u dont know if they do uncut routines, they arent like de'vo saying that they perform live at parties, it doesnt mean that they dont do uncut routines..

 

[Aris.SA]

Just want to say that Dan and Dave have done shows and live performences. It says so on there website. Here is what it said, and I quote "In 2001 at the first MAGIC Live! convention, Dan & Dave Buck were the only ones who received a standing ovation after they performed their flourish act at the Close-Up show! Even David Blaine was impressed!"

As for the virts there have been earlier videos of them doing a few.

there u go trashmanf and UEZ and all SH followers..

 

[UnholyGodn]

Andrei, you are worse than the HL/SH members that you insult so blindly with your immature mocking. I am often annoyed by trashmanf's constant praise of armspreads and things other than cuts, but I accept that because that is his style. He has actually provided a very open minded response to the childish rantings here.

While his points about lack of routining abbility may fall short on the people being targeted originally (Dan and Dave, Virtuoso), it is true about many of the people here that just learn bog standard flourishes and do nothing else. Heck, most people see Jackson 5 as a flourish, guess what?! It is a routine, yet because people are so unused to actually linking cuts together without Vegas Studio, people go "Oh wow, new cut".

Both sides have very valid points, unfortunately it seems that the SH/HL people are actually acting far more appropriatly than those who claim they are the 'good guys'. There is no war people, how can people not see that? It doesn't matter who is better than who, or who's style impresses laymen more, or anything.

Flourishing is an art, or so we like to believe, so the art is dependant on the personal style of the artist. Some artists like Abstract, others like Portraits, neither is better than the other, it's just thier preferance so that is what they do. It's like arguing that Apples are better than Bannanas, anyone taht got this heated over such a discussion would be declared insane. I feel insane having to try and explain it.

 

[drorange]

i think you are wrong in the insults between the HL/SH team and DnD as i remember last time this thing happened and the time before it was always the SH/HL starting it with DnD not even responding

 

[UnholyGodn]

i think you are wrong in the insults between the HL/SH team and DnD as i remember last time this thing happened and the time before it was always the SH/HL starting it with DnD not even responding

I never said anything about who started it, De'vo and Jerry always make comments like this, most people just ignore them, while others go crazy and start insulting them and making even worse ignorant claims back. All it does is prove their point, if people just left things alone we'd all be better off.

 

[copperfield 14]

Both sides have very valid points, unfortunately it seems that the SH/HL people are actually acting far more appropriatly than those who claim they are the 'good guys'. There is no war people, how can people not see that? It doesn't matter who is better than who, or who's style impresses laymen more, or anything.

SH/Hl have always been saying they have peace then they start the fight again. We never insult anyone of them, they start insulting us and the bucks. THere the ones not acting apprpiatly. Even if Jerry says he's sorry, he or one of the HL/Sh members will bash us again. It's really stupid how they don't appreciate Dan and Daves creations since they are so much alike. Jerry does cuts, fans, and so do the Virts. Jerry says the lepaul spread sucks and can't be long. Just becaus he can't do something dosen't mean it sucks or is wrong. Pressure fans bend cards more than lepauls. Same with side spring fan, and flower fan. Jerry and Devo have to stop acting like kids and act there age. I f they really want to spread the community then they have to start respecting others.

 

[UnholyGodn]

SH/Hl have always been saying they have peace then they start the fight again. We never insult anyone of them, they start insulting us and the bucks. THere the ones not acting apprpiatly. Even if Jerry says he's sorry, he or one of the HL/Sh members will bash us again. It's really stupid how they don't appreciate Dan and Daves creations since they are so much alike. Jerry does cuts, fans, and so do the Virts. Jerry says the lepaul spread sucks and can't be long. Just becaus he can't do something dosen't mean it sucks or is wrong. Pressure fans bend cards more than lepauls. Same with side spring fan, and flower fan. Jerry and Devo have to stop acting like kids and act there age. I f they really want to spread the community then they have to start respecting others.

Hello, it's the internet, people insult people for no reason all the time, suck it up. Insulting them back solves nothing, I was not defending the actions of the HL/SH members that start such wars, but was merely pointing out that of the SH/HL members that have replied to this thread, most were relatively level headed rather than ignorant bashing that came from the others.

 

[Philip]

I never knew this was going on KAHAKHAAK!!!! I always thought Jerry was a better guy than that.

 

[Genesis]

Guys... All of you. Who cares who's better? Who cares if someone makes a remark at you? Jerry was stereotyping you. If anyone here tells me they've never stereotyped everything, I'd tell you to go hit your head against a wall because everyone knows that's completely untrue.

Leave people to their own styles. If you don't like it, that shut up and keep your comment to yourself. As the common internet slang goes and since I can't actually say it... stfu. No one cares. Stop bickering.

The ONLY people who have a right to actually feel offended by this are the virts. So to the rest of you, stop arguing. It's getting you nowhere. Go and practice magic, or flourishing, or XCM. Go do work. Go SOMEWHERE where you're NOT posting useless threads like this crap.

For crying out loud, this is going back to the thread about Brad Christian from the other day. Go read my post there and get the damned concept... and people here bash the E forums for being too controlled. This thread wouldn't have lasted more than an hour on a decent forum.

Anyways, back to my point, do something useful rather than post this junk all the time.

P.S. Before people accuse me of being hypocritical for posting here given what I've said, I'm doing one handed cuts as I type.

 

[Andrei]

SH/HL act more appropriately when they insult others first, that is only but the adult thing to do. (Nobody claimed to be the good guys here, please don't make a mountain out of a molehill.)

The only point you stated that I actually agreed with is the fact that there is no war, no argument and nobody is pointing out which "style" is better. Thank you for pointing that out, I would have never guessed. You just basically restated everything I said...I don't believe one artist is better than another. Go read my previous post more carefully.

I would love for the mods to delete this, it's getting nowhere.

 

[UnknownEnemyZero]

There goes another thread gone to waste. Don't feed the trolls.

 

[Erik]

I don't see this discussion leading anywhere.

[CLOSED]

 

[richard]

Guys --

If people don't like the Virtuosos, that's their business. If they don't like multiple packet cuts, that's they're business. Let's NOT fight about who likes what style, but gear towards unity. Appreciate what people have to offer. Don't assume what people can and cannot do.

Cut and uncut videos both have their own places and achieve different goals.

If somebody says you're style isn't for them, don't listen to them, and don't snap back. Chances are it's what they want, and don't stoop to that level. We should be better than that.

What is more important is enjoying the art, trying to help others rather than bash them (I understand emotions might have taken control over some of you,) and maybe giving back to the community and helping out in some way. Not wasting time with all this silly bickering which is frankly immature and taints a community.


So let's back to our cards (and brains.)