My Father's Thoughts on Flourishing

[subbub38]

I don't post on here very often but I thought i would share a story with you all. So yesterday i was flourishing and my dad was in the room and he asked why i don't perform flourishing for others (I have before but its not part of my magic routines and its just not something laymen tend to appreciate much). I thought about this more and simply told him I do it for my own pleasure. Magic is a mutual pleasure where i can shock and entertain the audience which in return makes me happy but flourishing on the other hand is more just for myself.

My dad thought about it and said "So its basically card masturbation"?
Of course I broke out laughing not expecting a reply of that sort but as i thought about it more the more it really made sense.

There have been fights rather we should call it xcm, flourishing, cardistry, card manipulation...etc well i say card masturbation

 

[adjones]

Very true words right there. It's kind of like doing an extremely hard sleight to accomplish an effect when you could use a simple gimmick instead- I call that "magic masturbation".

 

[tsarothpaco]

I would agree, though flourishing itself may not be considered this (seeing as not everyone does it for their own pleasure) it can be a masturbatory craft. Your fathers thoughts are just, I too seem to follow the same trend...though I do flourish openly and people like it I just do it...for lack of a better word, because it's awesome.

~PaCo

 

[Robertus]

Haha! I go with that, Card Masturbation - CM?

 

[i3izarre]

I disagree with you that only you will enjoy it. I have met numerous people who saw me do a "SIMPLE" flourish and asked to see more. I bet you people would like to see you flourish.

 

[adjones]

I was watching a Dan and Dave trailer at school today (I was bored!), and somebody said it was really awesome. So I think laypeople do enjoy it to an extent, but it can get boring quickly. Sorry- forgot to add that in my original post!

 

[subbub38]

I disagree with you that only you will enjoy it. I have met numerous people who saw me do a "SIMPLE" flourish and asked to see more. I bet you people would like to see you flourish.

I never said others won't enjoy it i'm simply saying that many flourish to keep themselves happy when practicing. I believe it was Vincent Darks interview on the CUso that mentioned that it gets old practicing the same slight in front of your self all day. Flourishing is some thing that never fails to make yourself feel great. Yes flourishing can attract laymen like i said i have done some before, but nothing hits an audience like a wonderful magic trick. thats why CM (Card Masturbation) is a beatiful thing you can do for yourself everyday to get your card cravings taken care of.

 

[subbub38]

I was watching a Dan and Dave trailer at school today (I was bored!), and somebody said it was really awesome. So I think laypeople do enjoy it to an extent, but it can get boring quickly. Sorry- forgot to add that in my original post!

ya if only we were as good as dan and dave...

 

[EugeneSoh]

But it feels so good..... o.o

-Eugene

 

[Squ!rrel]

Very true words right there. It's kind of like doing an extremely hard sleight to accomplish an effect when you could use a simple gimmick instead- I call that "magic masturbation".

I don't think this analogy works at all. Using incredibly hard sleight instead of a simple gimmick does not benefit your audience at all and could be described as 'magic masturbation', you perform this sleight because you like doing difficult sleights, not because it will improve your performance.

A complex flourish can be very entertaining to laymen, it's unlike anything they've seen before. The entertainment of a flourish is in the complicated and difficult motions, it's a demonstration of skill.

Just because something is skillful doesn't mean it's showing off or done purely for your own benefit/satisfaction etc.

You can't judge flourishing based on standards/rules applied to magic.

In response to the original poster, just because you don't perform flourishes for live audiences doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. You seem to assume that flourishes are not entertaining to your audience, this is untrue. I have found that spectators can be equally, if not more fascinated by flourishing than by magic.

 

[adjones]

I don't think this analogy works at all. Using incredibly hard sleight instead of a simple gimmick does not benefit your audience at all and could be described as 'magic masturbation', you perform this sleight because you like doing difficult sleights, not because it will improve your performance.

Umm... exactly. You are doing something that directly benefits YOU and makes you feel good, although it doesn't have any effect on our audience. Hence, "magic masturbation".

 

[Squ!rrel]

Umm... exactly. You are doing something that directly benefits YOU and makes you feel good, although it doesn't have any effect on our audience. Hence, "magic masturbation".

Did you read the rest of my post?

I said that flourishing is not the same as performing difficult sleights as it is not just to make you feel good and does benefit your audience.

I completely agree that performing excessively difficult sleights is pointless, but it makes no sense to suggest that this is also the case for flourishing.

A difficult sleight is just for yourself, a flourish can be appreciated by your audience.

 

[adjones]

Did you read the rest of my post?

I said that flourishing is not the same as performing difficult sleights as it is not just to make you feel good and does benefit your audience.

I completely agree that performing excessively difficult sleights is pointless, but it makes no sense to suggest that this is also the case for flourishing.

A difficult sleight is just for yourself, a flourish can be appreciated by your audience.

Gotcha.. re-read the post, and that was a misunderstanding on my part. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[sourboarder]

I remember one day that I showed my dad a few magic effects and inbetween each effect i would shuffle the deck. by shuffling i mean a few flourishes. But there was no real like between magic and flourishing, so I say try and find a medium of magic and flourish that suits you well.

 

[copperfield 14]

When I used to practice flourishes only( I'm practicing magic now) my dad used to say why don't I perform my flourishes with my magic. I told him that they don't mix that well, but he said that it would make a very interesting show. Then he said if you never perform your flourishes then what's the point of wasting hours practicing them. Then i said it just makes me feel good. He said don't give me that bull. he started talking about how I'm wasting my time when I can be practicing more magic or studying. I actually think he's right though. Doing something to make you feel good is just stupid. That's why I started practicing more magic since well it's actually helpful in real life.

As for the xcm/cardistry/flourishes/ manipulation thing let me explain everything.
This is all my opinion and from what I seen.

Xcm- The name was created by devo. It's called xtreme card manipulation. It focuses on xcm alone. Devo believes that magic can be used to enhance xcm. While other people believe it's the other way around. You can easily tell when someone is doing xcm. Here is a better definition of xcm if you want to know.http://www.proxcm.com/beginners.htm

Flourishes- Now flourishes have always been there since well there old. It's basically simple fans and cuts and stuff like that. That's the original meaning before any of today's artists came out. Basically the little moves you can put in a magic routine.

Cardistry- Now the word has been around a very long time as well. It's basically the same as flourishes until 05 or 06 can't remember. Richard Z used that word. His meaning of it is a mixture of flourishing, xcm, and magic all together. Unfortunately devo didn't like the word since it was basically magic with flourishing to enhance the performence which is agianst devo's beliefs. Now of days theory11 and people like daniel madison are using the word cardistry. IMO cardistry has basically become mostly 2 hand cuts. People like Andrei represent cardistry but they were once members of hl and they started out with xcm. From today's videos of cardistry it's mostly cuts.

card manipulation- it's basically jeff mcbridge stuff. Card production, fans etc. Nothing like xcm or cardistry.

Well this is mostly my opinion. So noone bash me.

 

[HardcoreXcmer]

When I used to practice flourishes only( I'm practicing magic now) my dad used to say why don't I perform my flourishes with my magic. I told him that they don't mix that well, but he said that it would make a very interesting show. Then he said if you never perform your flourishes then what's the point of wasting hours practicing them. Then i said it just makes me feel good. He said don't give me that bull. he started talking about how I'm wasting my time when I can be practicing more magic or studying. I actually think he's right though. Doing something to make you feel good is just stupid. That's why I started practicing more magic since well it's actually helpful in real life.

As for the xcm/cardistry/flourishes/ manipulation thing let me explain everything.
This is all my opinion and from what I seen.

Xcm- The name was created by devo. It's called xtreme card manipulation. It focuses on xcm alone. Devo believes that magic can be used to enhance xcm. While other people believe it's the other way around. You can easily tell when someone is doing xcm. Here is a better definition of xcm if you want to know.http://www.proxcm.com/beginners.htm

Flourishes- Now flourishes have always been there since well there old. It's basically simple fans and cuts and stuff like that. That's the original meaning before any of today's artists came out. Basically the little moves you can put in a magic routine.

Cardistry- Now the word has been around a very long time as well. It's basically the same as flourishes until 05 or 06 can't remember. Richard Z used that word. His meaning of it is a mixture of flourishing, xcm, and magic all together. Unfortunately devo didn't like the word since it was basically magic with flourishing to enhance the performence which is agianst devo's beliefs. Now of days theory11 and people like daniel madison are using the word cardistry. IMO cardistry has basically become mostly 2 hand cuts. People like Andrei represent cardistry but they were once members of hl and they started out with xcm. From today's videos of cardistry it's mostly cuts.

card manipulation- it's basically jeff mcbridge stuff. Card production, fans etc. Nothing like xcm or cardistry.

Well this is mostly my opinion. So noone bash me.

Id say for the most part you are right dood. But it is ok to do things that make you feel good......as long as it's ethical....

Here are the definitions I have learned by observation.

XCM- pure manipulation of playing cards.
Flourish- something fancy or flashy used to enhance a moment.
Cardistry- a term used by magicians to mix the art of magic and flourishing.

 

[Chase]

Eugene Burger and Darwin Oritz have both written essays revolving around the term "magical masturbation".

On a somewhat onanistic related note, Stephen King wrote that writing for an audience is like masturbating in the town square. You are literally taking one of the most personal things that you do for your own pleasure and showing it off to a crowd to see if they relate. King believes that this is the reason there are so many closet writers who never show anyone their work or try to publish.

I wonder sometimes if amateur magicians aren't in a similar frame of mind. It's so easy and fun to practice in the privacy of your bedroom (or bathroom, or attic, or treehouse, or den, or garage, or poolhouse, or wherever you whip it out and play with your deck) that it becomes more then just "nerves" when performing for an audience. You are showing a crowd one of the most private and personal things you do. If you fail or the audience rejects you, it is humiliating in the most intimate of ways.

Then again, you also have people who perform no matter how bad they are.... the exhibitionists....

 

[FOO:L]

Haha! I go with that, Card Masturbation - CM?

since no ones pointed it out yet..
XTREME CARD MASTURBATION!

 

[subbub38]

I don't think this analogy works at all. Using incredibly hard sleight instead of a simple gimmick does not benefit your audience at all and could be described as 'magic masturbation', you perform this sleight because you like doing difficult sleights, not because it will improve your performance.

A complex flourish can be very entertaining to laymen, it's unlike anything they've seen before. The entertainment of a flourish is in the complicated and difficult motions, it's a demonstration of skill.

Just because something is skillful doesn't mean it's showing off or done purely for your own benefit/satisfaction etc.

You can't judge flourishing based on standards/rules applied to magic.

In response to the original poster, just because you don't perform flourishes for live audiences doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. You seem to assume that flourishes are not entertaining to your audience, this is untrue. I have found that spectators can be equally, if not more fascinated by flourishing than by magic.

But the point of performing a magic trick to someone is to well... perform it for them and to entertain them. They aren't there just to watch you practice random **** with cards. Magic is meant to be beneficial for all, whether it takes gimmicks or not thats just personal preference of the magician. If your performing magic for yourself then your performance probably needs to be worked on a lot. Most focus should be on the audience and entertaining them.

If you would read my initial post I said I have performed flourishes for people and they are delighted by the skill and look of it. I just choose not too often, I prefer to perform magic and practice flourishing. Many of the the top magicians agree unless your performing to a fellow magician you won't get the total respect and admiration for the flourish you are performing. Many laymen are equally amazed by a simple card spring or deck flip as they are pandora or lethal or a similar multipacket flourish. When any experienced flourisher would be much more impressed with the latter.

 

[Close-Up Expert]

Magic is an orgy of deception and astonishment.

~PaCo

HA! That was literally a "laugh out loud" moment for sure!!