The problem is that, no one is willing to step outside of a their bubble and give themselves some variety every once in a while. While calling everyone: "n00b" isn't exactly in good taste, I will agree that people are narrow minded and aren't open to new ideas and tend to want to have everything 100% "DnD speed" rather than focus on learning new things. It's nice to have things that smooth but sometimes extra for individual moves won't create smoothness for a routine of moves. It's not even about having "original moves" it's about expanding your horizons and learning as much as you can about the art. I hate the talk about "original moves" when all it is, is a finger placement change and a new packet toss in there somewhere. People believe if the create "original moves" that's the only way people will accept that as "great" manipulators. Juggling 3 playing cards is not very "original" but it sure hard and you never see anyone attempting it on the Internet except for Jerry. Originality should ALWAYS go for your performing or external structure. How you act, what's your persona, how you present routines, what lines do you use, the way you dress, are you funny or dead serious. Those are the things that matter. ALWAYS look through the eyes of the laymen, and you'll take yourself in a new direction for your manipulation.
Recipe for a T11 contest video or "whats wrong with flourishing today"
- Thread starter trashmanf
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I Agree with Cory Landels. Until you can prove that you can produce a better video, do not say another word.
Seriously, did you take the time to actually see past the originality of the person, and see that some of the people in the contest actually have potential?
Do you not realize that not everyone starts out developing their own flourishes? Some of the "lesser" videos are most likely in their learning/developing stages. You were once in this stage, or probably even in this stage right now.
And just in case you didn't see my reply to your comment in my video, ...what the hell were you expecting from a person with THREE MONTHS of flourishing?!
I realize that, but that's my goal in Cardistry, not my point in the video, and it wasn't that long. xD
Unlike you, I don't have super-high-long-@%$ standards.
Anyways, whatever the case may be, if you still think I'm a n00b, then remember this...Someone out there is saying the same thing about you.
Seriously, did you take the time to actually see past the originality of the person, and see that some of the people in the contest actually have potential?
Do you not realize that not everyone starts out developing their own flourishes? Some of the "lesser" videos are most likely in their learning/developing stages. You were once in this stage, or probably even in this stage right now.
And just in case you didn't see my reply to your comment in my video, ...what the hell were you expecting from a person with THREE MONTHS of flourishing?!
I realize that, but that's my goal in Cardistry, not my point in the video, and it wasn't that long. xD
Unlike you, I don't have super-high-long-@%$ standards.
No this contest was focusing on...
(I'm pretty sure you're going to say something about my video, and this quote...xD)
Anyways, whatever the case may be, if you still think I'm a n00b, then remember this...Someone out there is saying the same thing about you.
Umm sorry but, aren't you doing the thing that you don't want Trash to do? As in "Learn how to treat other people."
I think you should calm down... Trash is only giving his opinion.
yeah isn't that a bumper sticker "Mean people SUCK!"
dudes I am proud of you guys for actually submitting something. But you are just cheating yourselves, by copying other dudes moves and getting ultra-defensive knee-jerk reaction when someone calls you on it... instead of realizing what UEZ said in his post ^.
I fully understand your guys point "well you didn't submit a video..." that's because I knew that the top three spots are guaranteed to get blown out by the motherthumping VIRTS, Jaspas, these guys kick my face in, and I love every second of it. yes fiddlingsteve, chris hestes videos were good too, I didn't want to go through every video listing good/bad/ugly, I'm just saying the overwhelming impression I got from watching 20 videos in a row was "JEBUS thats a lot of the same cuts over and over". It is really hard for anyone to know if some cuts are original or not, when so many of them look the same, and the "original" aspect is something extremely minor like, rotating a packet a different way...
anyways I knew I was going to get hated on for starting this thread, but if it helps just one n00b ... if it just convinces even one n00b to spend his next practice session freestyling, rather than copying an old cut... well it was worth it, because we will all hopefully get to see that awesome original material on their video some day.
dudes I am proud of you guys for actually submitting something. But you are just cheating yourselves, by copying other dudes moves and getting ultra-defensive knee-jerk reaction when someone calls you on it... instead of realizing what UEZ said in his post ^.
I fully understand your guys point "well you didn't submit a video..." that's because I knew that the top three spots are guaranteed to get blown out by the motherthumping VIRTS, Jaspas, these guys kick my face in, and I love every second of it. yes fiddlingsteve, chris hestes videos were good too, I didn't want to go through every video listing good/bad/ugly, I'm just saying the overwhelming impression I got from watching 20 videos in a row was "JEBUS thats a lot of the same cuts over and over". It is really hard for anyone to know if some cuts are original or not, when so many of them look the same, and the "original" aspect is something extremely minor like, rotating a packet a different way...
anyways I knew I was going to get hated on for starting this thread, but if it helps just one n00b ... if it just convinces even one n00b to spend his next practice session freestyling, rather than copying an old cut... well it was worth it, because we will all hopefully get to see that awesome original material on their video some day.
I agree it would be nice to see more variety. But I think there was a much better way to get that point across than slamming all the new people who are new learners and some even presenting their performance to the world for the first time.
For one thing, the reason you probably saw so many similar videos was because people were going after the D&D style since it was a Trilogy Contest. Of course they're naturally going to have D&D and their style in mind.
But anyways... do you really expect absolutely everybody to be immediately original, extremely creative, and having an arsenal of hundreds of unique moves in every category?
You can't. People submitted their contest videos because they like cardistry. They like the moves that D&D taught them. Is it a crime for them to perform these moves and let people see? I don't think so. Plus when you see it's a contest related to Dan & Dave you are guaranteed to get more videos that are similar to D&D's style.
And again... you say the virts, jaspas, etc "kick your face in." What makes you think you're the only one? Is it only okay for you to have your face kicked in? These other people did put practice into it. They even took the time to try making a video out of the moves they did.
Everybody starts somewhere. And generally you start by learning what people already know. Then once you get comfortable, familiar, and not a dunce at handling cards, you can start inventing your own stuff.
Don't be so harsh. It's not cool to be calling people "n00bs" in a derogatory sense. Everybody was a "n00b" at first. TheVirts were. Jaspas was. Maybe you are, I don't know. I haven't seen any moves from you so I can't judge you on that. Anybody you look up to right now was at one point a n00b. EVENTUALLY they got better.
For one thing, the reason you probably saw so many similar videos was because people were going after the D&D style since it was a Trilogy Contest. Of course they're naturally going to have D&D and their style in mind.
But anyways... do you really expect absolutely everybody to be immediately original, extremely creative, and having an arsenal of hundreds of unique moves in every category?
You can't. People submitted their contest videos because they like cardistry. They like the moves that D&D taught them. Is it a crime for them to perform these moves and let people see? I don't think so. Plus when you see it's a contest related to Dan & Dave you are guaranteed to get more videos that are similar to D&D's style.
And again... you say the virts, jaspas, etc "kick your face in." What makes you think you're the only one? Is it only okay for you to have your face kicked in? These other people did put practice into it. They even took the time to try making a video out of the moves they did.
Everybody starts somewhere. And generally you start by learning what people already know. Then once you get comfortable, familiar, and not a dunce at handling cards, you can start inventing your own stuff.
Don't be so harsh. It's not cool to be calling people "n00bs" in a derogatory sense. Everybody was a "n00b" at first. TheVirts were. Jaspas was. Maybe you are, I don't know. I haven't seen any moves from you so I can't judge you on that. Anybody you look up to right now was at one point a n00b. EVENTUALLY they got better.
Welcome to the internet everyone. The place all the arrogant people of the world congregate to prove who is the least 'n00b'.
Last time I checked, a hobby was made for fun. If I'd been doing flourishing for 5 minutes and did a Charlier Cut that takes me 5 minutes and I drop cards, then make a video out of that and submitted it, I could rightfully be proud of my video.
Who are you to tell people what to do with their hobby? If they like D&D cuts, they can do D&D cuts. Not everyone is interested in being the best Flourisher ever, some people just wanted to submit to have some fun and have a shot at winning a prize. Why must everything be an argument over who has the biggest 'deck' can't people just have fun?
Last time I checked, a hobby was made for fun. If I'd been doing flourishing for 5 minutes and did a Charlier Cut that takes me 5 minutes and I drop cards, then make a video out of that and submitted it, I could rightfully be proud of my video.
Who are you to tell people what to do with their hobby? If they like D&D cuts, they can do D&D cuts. Not everyone is interested in being the best Flourisher ever, some people just wanted to submit to have some fun and have a shot at winning a prize. Why must everything be an argument over who has the biggest 'deck' can't people just have fun?
Trash, while i agree with you to a certain extent i think it's a case of how you say things rather than what you say. You use the term nOOb waaaay to much and you also use it in a pious manner that seems to get to people. I'm not saying for a moment you should change your views but maybe tone it down a bit mate.
I hope the winner is not an obvious one but somebody who has clearly put great efforts into a video and had a lot of fun doing it, we'll see.
I hope the winner is not an obvious one but somebody who has clearly put great efforts into a video and had a lot of fun doing it, we'll see.
I must add, people do realize that replacing letters with numbers was never actually cool right? It was originally used by hackers, then every idiot wanting to seem 'hardcore' started copying it. Everyday I visit forums such as these I realize why the best flourishers and magicians do not waste their time. There is no constructive criticism or help among peers, it's just a bunch of degrading 'n00b' bashing done by people that think they are more deserving than others just because they discovered it before them.
What is the point of a community if all that happens is arguments and yelling? Do not even pretend that this thread was actually created to help other people, it was a blatant attack on those that are not as technically advanced as others. There is a big difference between criticism and constructive criticism, and criticism for the sake of criticism is just a way of stroking ones own ego. Everyone starts somewhere, and the contest was supposed to be a chance for people to show what they have learned and have a chance to win prizes.
I also wish people would stop using the 'cover band' argument. While cover bands may not write their own original material, a lot of bands get their music written for them regardless, it just happens to be original. Also the reason cover bands exist is not because the artists lack the talent to create their own songs, but that people like the songs they are covering. Whether a band does it just to get their name out by covering a famous song, or if they do it in tribute of the artists they cover, it doesn't make what they do any less of an achievement. That being, cover bands and Cardistry have nothing in common, you can't even begin to draw parallels between music; a billion dollar industry, and Cardistry; a hobby. Get off your high horse and get back to practicing, that's where I'm going.
What is the point of a community if all that happens is arguments and yelling? Do not even pretend that this thread was actually created to help other people, it was a blatant attack on those that are not as technically advanced as others. There is a big difference between criticism and constructive criticism, and criticism for the sake of criticism is just a way of stroking ones own ego. Everyone starts somewhere, and the contest was supposed to be a chance for people to show what they have learned and have a chance to win prizes.
I also wish people would stop using the 'cover band' argument. While cover bands may not write their own original material, a lot of bands get their music written for them regardless, it just happens to be original. Also the reason cover bands exist is not because the artists lack the talent to create their own songs, but that people like the songs they are covering. Whether a band does it just to get their name out by covering a famous song, or if they do it in tribute of the artists they cover, it doesn't make what they do any less of an achievement. That being, cover bands and Cardistry have nothing in common, you can't even begin to draw parallels between music; a billion dollar industry, and Cardistry; a hobby. Get off your high horse and get back to practicing, that's where I'm going.
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Ummmm.... that sounds like a great idea dude, you should go for it. The media section would really rock.
DUDES: I AM A N00B!!! There is nothing derogatory about someone being a n00b... if you are new to flourishing, you are by definition a n00b!
I'm not saying , "you stupid n00000000bs, U R teh SUX, I am teh 733T |-|@><0R",
I rather say "dearest n00bs, I do protest I never injured thee, yet love thee more than thou canst devise! And so; till thou canst know the true nature of my love, good n00b, whose name I do tender as dearly as my own, be satisfied".
Is it mean to call a fresh recruit into the army a "private" ? Or a 9th grader a "Freshman"? No! That is simply a factual term, if you want to turn it into an Inkblot test, and start seeing all sorts of negative connotations, then, that's a personal problem - read my posts carefully and you'll see I'm trying to help.
Also PS - to rich - if you want to witness my n00b-ness, check out the following link to United Card Artists team 4 video, I'm first up.
Team 4: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieLUeduUDZA
and, to anyone else that wants to check out some cool vids I would encourage y'all to watch these, in fact these are a GREAT example of finding your own original style :
TEAM #1 - www.youtube.com/watch?v=th-AjtD6TBo
TEAM #2 - www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pb258xNMzs
TEAM #3 - www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCJ3sRbjxys&v3
Although this is a hobby and whatever you do with your hobby should be your business, but I'll have you know a lot of magician get their stuff criticized extremely too. "You shouldn't use that patter, why you performing this effect it's pointless cause it came from ______. Stop copying David Blaine." It happens in every community.
"Blatant attack"? Not necessarily. I didn't really spot any "attacking" words with that Trashmanf is unhappy with the direction the community is taking. There are beginners here yeah, but I'm pretty sure there people here that have been doing this stuff for a couple years now and are still sticking to a particular style and aren't willing to expand but do have the capability. To me, a true attack leaves no remorse and usually just ends with, "YOU ALL SUCK" or "GTFO" or something like that.
About the rating system in the videos section is just a little skewed in my opinion anyway, so I would recommend avoiding it anyway. People can't rate anyway without even justifying it. This is why I never look at the x/5 ratings and actually look at the video. So just because their rated 2/5 doesn't mean their terrible, and this doesn't always mean stuff rated 5/5 is the bestest material ever either. It's just your opinion gets out numbered by all the others. I'm glad that the T11 artists are looking at each video individually instead of just declaring a winner through community voting.
"Blatant attack"? Not necessarily. I didn't really spot any "attacking" words with that Trashmanf is unhappy with the direction the community is taking. There are beginners here yeah, but I'm pretty sure there people here that have been doing this stuff for a couple years now and are still sticking to a particular style and aren't willing to expand but do have the capability. To me, a true attack leaves no remorse and usually just ends with, "YOU ALL SUCK" or "GTFO" or something like that.
About the rating system in the videos section is just a little skewed in my opinion anyway, so I would recommend avoiding it anyway. People can't rate anyway without even justifying it. This is why I never look at the x/5 ratings and actually look at the video. So just because their rated 2/5 doesn't mean their terrible, and this doesn't always mean stuff rated 5/5 is the bestest material ever either. It's just your opinion gets out numbered by all the others. I'm glad that the T11 artists are looking at each video individually instead of just declaring a winner through community voting.
I think that a valid point has been made, that a lot of the videos have been regurgitating a lot of the same stuff, not only card moves, but just the video feel. I realize that most people here don't have an expensive camera and thousand dollar editing program along with the skills to use one, but you don't need an HD video to win.
Now, not everyone has the ability to create their own stuff, or great variations on the things they learn, but that's ok. If everyone did it, it wouldn't be special. That's why we're having a competition. But if you're not even going to make an attempt at it, you might as well be posting the vids on youtube.
Since it is a competition, we really can't be raging against the people who didn't create a slew of new unique moves for the videos. The people who entered will see the winning videos, and hopefully learn what it takes to make one, and work harder in order to be able to do it.
On the topic of good videos, there were some really great ones, and, not meaning to leave any out, i'll mention a couple, the virts video, jaspas, and fiddlingsteve. I think we can agree those are some of the best videos on there (not necessarily in that order, or the top 3). You may be able to do dnd's moves perfectly, but adding flair and originality will top that any day.
Now, not everyone has the ability to create their own stuff, or great variations on the things they learn, but that's ok. If everyone did it, it wouldn't be special. That's why we're having a competition. But if you're not even going to make an attempt at it, you might as well be posting the vids on youtube.
Since it is a competition, we really can't be raging against the people who didn't create a slew of new unique moves for the videos. The people who entered will see the winning videos, and hopefully learn what it takes to make one, and work harder in order to be able to do it.
On the topic of good videos, there were some really great ones, and, not meaning to leave any out, i'll mention a couple, the virts video, jaspas, and fiddlingsteve. I think we can agree those are some of the best videos on there (not necessarily in that order, or the top 3). You may be able to do dnd's moves perfectly, but adding flair and originality will top that any day.
If you're not original enough to create any new ideas, there's always those people outside of the computer-world you can perform for. Or what is the deal, are you only learning all this stuff to show it to some people on the other side of the world? Seriously, laymen are much more easily impressed by flourishes since none of the stuff looks like anything they've ever seen before. Us on the other hand, we've seen the stuff enough times to put 2 fingers down our throat and throw up. Or am I just talking for myself over here?
Ok so you might want those Jerry's Nuggets signed by Dan and Dave. Personally I couldn't care less about owning a deck of those or not, I'd rather take a brick of Tallys than a signed deck of Jerries if it was for using them. Otherwise I'd obviously sell the deck and get myself money for years worth of Tally Ho cards.
The top videos in my opinion would be the Virt-video, Sunset Fortress and Fiddlingsteves video. Sunset Fortress is a good example that a video can be kickass without containing a lot of original moves anyway. But then again, I guess you'd have to have a talented filmer and editor like Allan.
Ok so you might want those Jerry's Nuggets signed by Dan and Dave. Personally I couldn't care less about owning a deck of those or not, I'd rather take a brick of Tallys than a signed deck of Jerries if it was for using them. Otherwise I'd obviously sell the deck and get myself money for years worth of Tally Ho cards.
The top videos in my opinion would be the Virt-video, Sunset Fortress and Fiddlingsteves video. Sunset Fortress is a good example that a video can be kickass without containing a lot of original moves anyway. But then again, I guess you'd have to have a talented filmer and editor like Allan.
I think we should stop the bickering before this gets out of hand. Obviously we all have different opinions and it's great that we're expressing them. But I can see this becoming a virtual shouting match.
The end result is that people put effort into their videos, and no one should tell them they're not good enough to enter a contest.
Mitchell
The end result is that people put effort into their videos, and no one should tell them they're not good enough to enter a contest.
Mitchell
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