Starting to perform

[brownie704]

It could be really nice to get some ideas how to ask people if they wanna see a magic trick?

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Everyone has their own ways of doing this. I recommend searching around for "The Approach" or "Approaching strangers" and other such key words.

Personally I try never to ask if someone wants me to perform. I create the situation where they ask me to perform. This is more comfortable for me.

Learn to talk to people without magic. Just have a conversation. Once you're proficient at just talking to people comfortably, it becomes really easy to steer the conversation to a subject which will let you perform without seeming to shove that performance into people's faces.

Of course, there's shortcuts - If you get someone with a decent looking camera to follow you around you'll vastly increase your odds of people wanting to see your magic. They don't even have to film, they just have to pretend to.

 

[TeeDee]

It could be really nice to get some ideas how to ask people if they wanna see a magic trick?

What sort of contexts are you thinking about doing this? I mean, are you considering approaching strangers in the street, friends and acquaintances at school/work, or in a more formal environment where you might be looking to get money?

I'm going to guess that you're talking about approaching strangers. In that case, my advice would be to not overthink it. Just concentrate on being friendly and relaxed and not attempting anything too clever. Some possible opening lines could be:

"Hi, can I show you a magic trick?"
"Hi, I'm a magician, can I show you something?"
"Hi, I'm performing magic round here today. Do you want to see something?"

As you can see, I'm deliberately not recommending any attempt to do anything fancy. Just a simple, clear request for what you want, while being friendly and relaxed. Did I say "friendly and relaxed" yet? To use a card magic metaphor, "friendly and relaxed" is the double lift of social interaction. It's a simple and basic tool, but once you've got it down you can work miracles. Until you've got over your apprehension at approaching strangers and you've been rejected enough times to learn not to let it bother you, I wouldn't bother trying any PUA or salesperson subtleties. It's too much to remember and it's better to start from a strong friendly and relaxed foundation and build from there when you've got that mastered.

And until friendly and relaxed starts to come naturally to you, the beginner's get-ready for this technique is to smile and drop your shoulders. Consciously do this before approaching anyone and eventually it'll start to happen instinctively.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I wouldn't bother trying any PUA or salesperson subtleties. It's too much to remember and it's better to start from a strong friendly and relaxed foundation and build from there when you've got that mastered.

"PUA or salesperson subtleties" is an extremely vague term. You say it's too much to remember then gloss over the ideas of being "strong, friendly and relaxed" - how does one convey that? If someone is not naturally good at interacting socially, this advice is pretty unhelpful I must say. While I don't really jive with the current PUA community, several of its members have basically made something of a science of how to interact with people. You start with simple steps, such as learning to be friendly, and build from there so you are not remembering anything, you are building the habit so it happens naturally.

The first step is just walking up to people and having a conversation with them.

 

[TeeDee]

"PUA or salesperson subtleties" is an extremely vague term.

I know, and deliberately so. My point was to dismiss the whole nebulous concept of social interaction as a science and recommend starting from the point of view of just talking to people in a friendly and relaxed way, which isn't too far from what you're suggesting. I tend to find that it's more productive to jump in the deep end and just get out there and talk to people, make some mistakes, learn to take the rough with the smooth without worrying about some rigidly memorised structure.

You say it's too much to remember then gloss over the ideas of being "strong, friendly and relaxed" - how does one convey that? If someone is not naturally good at interacting socially, this advice is pretty unhelpful I must say.

I never said "strong". I'm not really sure what that would mean in this context. I think if someone doesn't understand what "friendly and relaxed" means then my advice still stands. Get out there, approach people, approximate what you think friendly and relaxed means and learn what works through experience rather than appropriating an artificial system of interaction.

While I don't really jive with the current PUA community, several of its members have basically made something of a science of how to interact with people. You start with simple steps, such as learning to be friendly, and build from there so you are not remembering anything, you are building the habit so it happens naturally.

Agreed. My advice was geared towards getting that first simple step out of the way, before confusing matters by trying to take on too much extra information.

The first step is just walking up to people and having a conversation with them.

Which is almost exactly what I've been saying. I don't see why you're disagreeing with me. Is there any particular reason?

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I know, and deliberately so. My point was to dismiss the whole nebulous concept of social interaction as a science and recommend starting from the point of view of just talking to people in a friendly and relaxed way, which isn't too far from what you're suggesting. I tend to find that it's more productive to jump in the deep end and just get out there and talk to people, make some mistakes, learn to take the rough with the smooth without worrying about some rigidly memorised structure.

The problem with dismissing that 'nebulous concept' is that you're assuming whomever you are giving this advice to already has certain skills and confidence. You can learn to swim by jumping into the deep end, but you'll be a far better swimmer if you actually build up and take lessons. For instance, if you jump in the deep end you'll probably more or less figure out treading water and doggy paddle to get to the side. But if you structure your learning to understand how the human body moves in water you'll learn the proper way to freestyle swim and save yourself considerable energy in the long run. To be less metaphorical - If you have no social skills then jumping right into a situation where you need social skills will likely be intimidating, embarrassing and borderline traumatic. It can also have a significantly lasting effect on one's reputation within certain social circles.

Or, you can take some time to learn extremely basic socializing skills which will ease that transition exponentially.

I never said "strong". I'm not really sure what that would mean in this context. I think if someone doesn't understand what "friendly and relaxed" means then my advice still stands. Get out there, approach people, approximate what you think friendly and relaxed means and learn what works through experience rather than appropriating an artificial system of interaction.

It's too much to remember and it's better to start from a strong friendly and relaxed foundation and build from there when you've got that mastered.

Unless I'm mislead by your lack of punctuation I read this as have a foundation which is strong, friendly and also relaxed. If that's not what you meant, then sorry - but you need to proofread.

Ok. You're making assumptions and really, that's what's irritating me. You're saying, "If someone doesn't know what this is, they should fake it." How on earth do you expect someone to fake it, when they don't know what it is? How do you expect them to be able to do that, when that is exactly what they are looking for advice for in the first place? "How do I build a flying buttress?" "Oh, that's easy, go build a flying buttress." That's what you're saying.

Do you watch the Big Bang Theory? You know how Howard acted in the beginning of the series? That character thought he was being relaxed and friendly - would you advise someone emulate him?

Agreed. My advice was geared towards getting that first simple step out of the way, before confusing matters by trying to take on too much extra information.

Again - you're making assumptions. If you were going to build a shed, would you just go buy some wood, nails and a hammer and start building, or would you look into the first steps to make sure you've got some idea of what you're doing? Telling someone who's asking how to approach people to just walk up and do magic is not helping at all - unless they actually already have those social skills. You're starting from an assumption of social skills, whereas I am starting from an assumption of none. I am giving the basic tools to help someone who is socially anxious overcome that hurdle to be able to walk up to people at all.

Building social skills, or "memorizing a structure" as you put it, allows you to learn to recognize the people with whom you will quickly be able to build rapport. It teaches you how to overcome the fear that's
stopping you from doing that approach (the "act before your brain can stop you" rule). It gives you a way to start a conversation with complete strangers when you're not sure what to say (Interesting object worn, followed by stacking). It teaches you not to overstay your welcome and leave people wanting to talk to you again.

In short, it takes people who have zero social skills and teaches them how to effectively and confidently interact without or despite the anxiety and fear they may be feeling associated with that activity. Furthermore it teaches people how to use these skills in any context to improve their quality of life. Humans are a social creature but we're not all innately equipped with the tools to be social. It's a good idea to learn how to use them in an effective manner.

What you are saying is, "Suck it up and just walk up to them." Well, that doesn't work for everyone. That wouldn't have worked for me when I was first learning social skills. Dismissing the amount of effort some people have to put into the basic actions of effectively socializing is ignorant at best. And again, I don't really jive with the current PUA community, but learning social skills is something every magician should do.

 

[TeeDee]

Christopher, I'm happy to accept everything you say as a valid alternative point of view. I apologise for irritating you. That wasn't my intent, I was just trying to share the fruits of my own personal and particular experience to help the OP. You seem knowledgeable and thoughtful, so I'm going to take on board everything you've said and consider if I need to modify my opinion.

I am, however, not happy to accept this criticism:

Unless I'm mislead by your lack of punctuation I read this as have a foundation which is strong, friendly and also relaxed. If that's not what you meant, then sorry - but you need to proofread.

I meant a "strong friendly and relaxed foundation" (no comma). In other words, a friendly and relaxed foundation that is strong. If I'd said a "strong, friendly and relaxed foundation" (with comma) then that would mean what you're suggesting I meant. Anyway, it's not important, I just take my ability to punctuate seriously!

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I meant a "strong friendly and relaxed foundation" (no comma). In other words, a friendly and relaxed foundation that is strong. If I'd said a "strong, friendly and relaxed foundation" (with comma) then that would mean what you're suggesting I meant. Anyway, it's not important, I just take my ability to punctuate seriously!

Might I suggest, not as a professed expert but as someone who tends to edit extensively attempting to find the correct way to express a point, that the "strong" should be dropped all together? A well established foundation of relaxed friendliness is the best I can come up with.

 

[TeeDee]

Might I suggest, not as a professed expert but as someone who tends to edit extensively attempting to find the correct way to express a point, that the "strong" should be dropped all together? A well established foundation of relaxed friendliness is the best I can come up with.

Yes, you might well suggest that! I think that's a good call. I agree it's not the most elegant prose ever composed, but I felt as though it was sufficient to get my point across. I'll do my best to be less ambiguous in future. Maybe, in retrospect, I should have said, "a strong foundation of being friendly and relaxed", although that's a bit cumbersome as well. Never mind, I'm sure anyone who's bothered to read this thread will have grasped what I mean by now!

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Yes, you might well suggest that! I think that's a good call. I agree it's not the most elegant prose ever composed, but I felt as though it was sufficient to get my point across. I'll do my best to be less ambiguous in future. Maybe, in retrospect, I should have said, "a strong foundation of being friendly and relaxed", although that's a bit cumbersome as well. Never mind, I'm sure anyone who's bothered to read this thread will have grasped what I mean by now!

Or just bailed due to the descent into semantics. We should probably just let it go. Or, in the very least, stop posting about and privately roll through various permutations of the phrase until one seems good.