The Transition from Newbie to Amateur
- Thread starter kevin
- Start date
Could just be my opinion. I think you're still of the naive newbie mindset if you use EITHER as a crutch. I think a smart magician will use all possible options to learn as much as they can. A lot of outstanding material has come out on dvd. A lot of this material can't be found in books. The same can easily be said about books. Think about all you'll be missing out on if you only choose one. I remember buying books as often as I did dvds. I can't imagine going without either. My suggestion. Learn everything you can and never limit yourself otherwise you'll have a very hard time progressing. The knowledge in this industry is almost limitless. enjoy yourself.
I think going from newb to amateur is getting past wanting to know the secret to everything just to be able to do cool tricks.
Any serious student of magic could be called an amateur, even the hobbyist, even if they don't own books or dvds and just happen to have a mind that creates magic; if they take it seriously, they can be considered an amateur.
Any serious student of magic could be called an amateur, even the hobbyist, even if they don't own books or dvds and just happen to have a mind that creates magic; if they take it seriously, they can be considered an amateur.
I personally don't think there is such a thing as "going from newb to amateur." If there is, and anyone can pinpoint the time it happened to them, I doubt it would be when they picked up a magic book!
Agreed, and instead of editing my previous post...it really is a gradual process.
Everything in magic is. Fans got it right (not uncommon) there is no one point in magic where a 'newb' is now an amateur. Nor is there a point where an amateur is now intermediate in anything, and the intermediate becomes 'expert' only after someone else realizes that they are an expert. It isn't something you readily recognize.
I don't think there is a "point" but I do believe that there is a time when you say to yourself, "wow, I am far greater now than I was- I have a changed mindset." and I think that is the point when, even if we don't categorize it as whatever, that you become a more mature performer, even if it's just a realization. If you're only an expert when someone recognizes you as one than why can't one be an amateur or beginner when someone recognizes you as one?
For me, I remember a time when I was obsessed with each upcoming tricks, whereas now I am interested in saving money for classic books such as those by Juan Tamariz and Darwin Ortiz, etc. And I think there is probably a correlation between being a more developed performer and having read books on theory/presentation vs dvd's (or books for that matter) on tricks and sleights.
But, I wouldn't be here without both, so maybe I should rephrase- not the transition, the accommodation of both aspects of learning magic into your repertoire.
kevin
its on how you use your skill.
its not books or videos. i started with books. and all the old magicians used books and then had teachers.
i feel that its the seriousness that you take the art, and what you do with it.
for me i feel like im an amature semi-pro. i have done many shows for different groups. but i dont feel that i am a pro .
its not books or videos. i started with books. and all the old magicians used books and then had teachers.
i feel that its the seriousness that you take the art, and what you do with it.
for me i feel like im an amature semi-pro. i have done many shows for different groups. but i dont feel that i am a pro .
I think a lot of it has to do with vision. When you're starting out, there's a lot of getting your feet wet, whether it's buying dvds or buying books. or both. You're learning about what makes what happen. Getting familiar in this unfamiliar world. Then when you've established a lot of the basic concepts, you develop a vision of what magic is to you. A lot of people can go years and years without finding this. False visions don't count. Meaning, adopting views of others, for the sake of fitting in. Your vision is your view. and when you get this and get a firm grasp of what magic is, then the study of the art and taking it seriously becomes more natural. A newbie is someone getting their feet wet. Then it builds from there. There's only two types of magicians. I hate when we're put on pedestals by our "level". You're either good or you're not.
I agree with many of the above posts. For me, going from a beginner to semi-pro was learning theory from books, honing my skills / technique, taking lessons, joining my local ring, attending conventions, and getting paid for my performances.
When I was first starting out all I wanted to do was buy, buy, buy and go try the effect 2 hrs later only to not get the full reaction as I had witnessed on the video I had just dropped 30 bucks on.
Another point to bring up though is that you could be a pro or semi-pro in one area of magic but still be a rookie or beginner in another aspect of magic.
Ex. You could be an outstanding close up magician but just be starting out and learning the ropes as a mentalist or stage magician.
When I was first starting out all I wanted to do was buy, buy, buy and go try the effect 2 hrs later only to not get the full reaction as I had witnessed on the video I had just dropped 30 bucks on.
Another point to bring up though is that you could be a pro or semi-pro in one area of magic but still be a rookie or beginner in another aspect of magic.
Ex. You could be an outstanding close up magician but just be starting out and learning the ropes as a mentalist or stage magician.
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Good thoughts Asher, and everyone, but I really like how you put everyone into two groups.
I would say that you're either moving forward or standing still...and if you're standing still you'll be sliding backwards before you know it.
I like what David Stone said about the difference between and professional and an amateur. I'll look it up to quote it here but to paraphrase until I get home:
He also made the statement (right before):
I'll let you buy the book for the rest of his thoughts on the matter.
With that said, my previous statement was for the posts at hand. Since there are no tests that specifically separate novice from amateur from beginner from intermediate handlers from experts, I think it's probably better to let everyone else to come to the conclusions. Don't worry about being a professional, or an expert, just work hard and eventually it will be recognized.
You shouldn't take everything that everybody says as fact either...tricky subject and I'll end with this,
Last time I checked this was America (at least where I am).
I would say that you're either moving forward or standing still...and if you're standing still you'll be sliding backwards before you know it.
I like what David Stone said about the difference between and professional and an amateur. I'll look it up to quote it here but to paraphrase until I get home:
He also made the statement (right before):
I'll let you buy the book for the rest of his thoughts on the matter.
With that said, my previous statement was for the posts at hand. Since there are no tests that specifically separate novice from amateur from beginner from intermediate handlers from experts, I think it's probably better to let everyone else to come to the conclusions. Don't worry about being a professional, or an expert, just work hard and eventually it will be recognized.
You shouldn't take everything that everybody says as fact either...tricky subject and I'll end with this,
Last time I checked this was America (at least where I am).
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Foolzsight,
Great post about the David Stone book. That is one of my favorites and packed full of valuable info. Everyone should read this or have it in their library.
As a teacher we have a saying, "Be a lifelong learner." This can be applied to all areas of life. Do not stay stagnant or others will pass you by.
Great post about the David Stone book. That is one of my favorites and packed full of valuable info. Everyone should read this or have it in their library.
As a teacher we have a saying, "Be a lifelong learner." This can be applied to all areas of life. Do not stay stagnant or others will pass you by.
I won't quote my signature, but you're free to read it down there
That's my stand on the matter.
When you've got one good effect and you can't fail at it whatsoever, then you've gone from Newb to Am, in my opinion.
That's my stand on the matter.
When you've got one good effect and you can't fail at it whatsoever, then you've gone from Newb to Am, in my opinion.
That is what is called jumping to conclusions. I think I'm good. I think I'm even better than Yesterday! Does that make me a step-up from Yesterday?
[Edited] What you are talking about is a personal thing.
I won't quote my signature, but you're free to read it down there
That's my stand on the matter.
When you've got one good effect and you can't fail at it whatsoever, then you've gone from Newb to Am, in my opinion.
Okay bro. Why quote a saying that you're not willing to support?
[Edited] (And I am MEAN). "Amateurs practice until they get it right - Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong"
I have heard that everywhere. By less than professionals. It's a stupid quote. I write posts until everyone likes me. Professionals like me until I write posts! (You have to realize that "can't get it wrong" is a double negative right?)
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Seconded. Those quotes make me want to buy the book. Cool.
Good thoughts everybody- thanks
kevin
I don’t see why there is importance is on either. Why do we NEED to know where we place this? Anyone can call themselves any of the three but it doesn’t mean anything it’s just a label that has little to no meaning behind it. As said earlier I know some people who call themselves professional who are terrible and I know some people who call themselves amateurs who rock.
I know a lot of magicians who seem to place a lot of important but what does it matter if we are any of the three as long as we are progressing?
I know a lot of magicians who seem to place a lot of important but what does it matter if we are any of the three as long as we are progressing?