theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards
YouTube and learning magic?
- Thread starter MaryD3
- Start date
As a young person who grew up with YouTube, I personally think YouTube can be a good way to get into magic. However, that does not mean it is the best way or that everyone on YouTube is a good teacher. I personally prefer to learn from books but I used to learn from YouTube. I've found you'll get a lot more out of books as a whole. Mark Wilson's Complete Course is $15 and basically covers everything you need to know to get started in any type of magic. Many of the Dover Books are under $10 and have a wealth of information. Plus, all of the best tricks have not been revealed on YouTube. They're in books. I assume you're a teenager as well and primarily perform for friends or peers. They can be the worst hecklers and if they've seen the same trick on YouTube, they could seriously mess you up. I speak from experience.
Books can also give you important advice on presentation and other things you probably won't find on YouTube since most of the people showing secrets are more focused on "revealing" than "teaching" if that makes sense. They usually don't care about whether you'll perform the trick well or not, they just want the views from revealing "that trick David Blaine does".
So I wouldn't say YouTube is bad per se. In fact there are quite a few channels who are quite good teachers (in my opinion) like Xavior Spade and Chris Ramsay but I would definitely recommend picking up some books.
Here are the musts imo:
- Mark Wilson's Complete Course
- Royal Road to Card Magic (and eventually Expert Card Technique)
- Modern Coin Magic (if you're into coins)
- Scarne on Card Tricks
- Encyclopedia of Card Tricks
- Card College Light
Jason England's "What To Read" video in on T11 and gives some great advice on what books to get.
If you have a decent background in magic you can help sort out the bad tutorials from the good on youtube. However if you do not have an already decent background then you will have a hard time discerning the quality of the information you receive. Sure there are some good tutorials out there but you may not know what tutorials are unethical, have poor form, or incomplete explanations in the methods/psychology they are learning. This can lead to incomplete learning and cementing bad habits into your methods.
Imagine not knowing anything about self defense and starting to learn from someone who has a year experience in a martial art versus learning from someone who has many years experience as well as teaching experience. A new student may think they are getting good information but actually cementing a bad habit. Now imagine learning via video from a person with a year experience, there is even a larger disconnect than learning in person.
This disconnect and lack of quality control can play havoc with how magic is viewed. Laypeople viewing magic/tutorials on youtube for learning reasons or just wanting to see how it works are less apt to see the actual work and time that gets put into an effect and not understand the skill needed to display the effect. When the poor tutorials/magic outweighs the quality examples or people do not have the background information to discern between the good from the bad on the platform a laypersons opinion of the art can be skewed poorly.
You tube lacks quality control that can hinder new students and can give a hard time to professionals due to the bad exposure. There is good stuff on youtube but the probable pitfalls for the general audience or beginner magicians are quite a problem.
Just as an aside, the paywall to learning good magic does bother me. I do agree people need to get paid for their work they put into writing their books etc. but I am discussing more of the online tutorials. It is a form of gatekeeping that hinders a persons want to learn based on their financial situation. I understand it is to deter just any JoeSchmo from easily learning how a trick is done but I am not sure that free magic via an open forum like youtube is the best way to protect the art nor is it a great resource to teach the art.
Imagine not knowing anything about self defense and starting to learn from someone who has a year experience in a martial art versus learning from someone who has many years experience as well as teaching experience. A new student may think they are getting good information but actually cementing a bad habit. Now imagine learning via video from a person with a year experience, there is even a larger disconnect than learning in person.
This disconnect and lack of quality control can play havoc with how magic is viewed. Laypeople viewing magic/tutorials on youtube for learning reasons or just wanting to see how it works are less apt to see the actual work and time that gets put into an effect and not understand the skill needed to display the effect. When the poor tutorials/magic outweighs the quality examples or people do not have the background information to discern between the good from the bad on the platform a laypersons opinion of the art can be skewed poorly.
You tube lacks quality control that can hinder new students and can give a hard time to professionals due to the bad exposure. There is good stuff on youtube but the probable pitfalls for the general audience or beginner magicians are quite a problem.
Just as an aside, the paywall to learning good magic does bother me. I do agree people need to get paid for their work they put into writing their books etc. but I am discussing more of the online tutorials. It is a form of gatekeeping that hinders a persons want to learn based on their financial situation. I understand it is to deter just any JoeSchmo from easily learning how a trick is done but I am not sure that free magic via an open forum like youtube is the best way to protect the art nor is it a great resource to teach the art.
YouTube is a waste of time in regards to learning magic.
I think it can be a good jumping off point for some people to get into magic. I know you guys aren't necessarily fond of him but there are tons of comments on Chris Ramsay's book video of people saying they ordered RRTCM and hope to get more in the future which is great imo.
So it really depends. A vast majority of the tutorials on YouTube are utter crap but there are some decent magicians on the platform. The internet really is a blessing and a curse for magic in more ways than one.
YouTube teaches you how to do tricks...
Books teach you how to perform magic.
Books teach you how to perform magic.
In my opinion there is no one definitive way to learn magic, its different for everyone so grouping everyone into one catagory is naïve. I personally have an incredibly difficult time learning from books. So I work hard to shell out the cash for downloads and that works for me. I don’t think books are the end all be all, videos are not either. Again it’s different for everyone so find what works for you and do that, the downside of YouTube is quite simply that there is not a lot of good teachers. The downside of books os that some of the material is outdated. Just find what works for you and stick with it.
TL;DR - I know that most people will start learning magic from YouTube these days. However, the things that make good magic, are not taught on YouTube (or many videos at all). Therefore, the longer one spends learning from YouTube, the longer they are going to have to spend unlearning bad habits. Hence, waste of time.
Longer -
I personally advocate a mixed approach. Mostly books with videos to show what a difficult-to-describe move or routine should look like. Personal training when possible, as well, but I honestly prefer resources I can go back to.
I agree with Jamy Ian Swiss when he says that "Videos are for imitation, books are for education." I think the proliferation of videos and, "I can't learn from a book" mentality is a big part of why there are so many cookie cutter magicians in current magic. I've heard several 'names' complain about people who copy the patter from the video word for word. I remember Daniel Garcia in an interview talking about how people were copying the jokes he made in instructional videos, that he made up on the spot, but they took to be The Script, so they copied it.
As previously discussed in other threads, I think the people who are "teaching" on YouTube are also a big part of why reveals and tutorials are so prolific. New people get into magic and see people who are getting attention/respect putting out tutorials, so they think that must be how magic works. So they go and make reveals to be part of the cool kids party.
Also, the people who do reveal videos are doing it strictly to get views/sales/money. If they wanted to "Teach people correctly" then they'd include a lot more theory and theatrical skills, which is what makes magic good. So either A) They don't know those things, so should they be teaching? Or B) They do know those things, but they also know it won't get views/sales/money, so they just do reveals because that will get way more views. In this case, they're not Robin Hood figures, bringing magic to the poor folks who can't afford to pay for proper resources - they're just pretending to be so they can make money.
YouTube has no filter. There's nothing to stop anyone from posting reveals or tutorials, regardless of whether or not they have any business creating that tutorial. So yes, you can find some decent tutorials that will show how to do a trick or move properly. But you won't learn magic from YouTube, you'll only learn, at best, some tricks.
Longer -
I personally advocate a mixed approach. Mostly books with videos to show what a difficult-to-describe move or routine should look like. Personal training when possible, as well, but I honestly prefer resources I can go back to.
I agree with Jamy Ian Swiss when he says that "Videos are for imitation, books are for education." I think the proliferation of videos and, "I can't learn from a book" mentality is a big part of why there are so many cookie cutter magicians in current magic. I've heard several 'names' complain about people who copy the patter from the video word for word. I remember Daniel Garcia in an interview talking about how people were copying the jokes he made in instructional videos, that he made up on the spot, but they took to be The Script, so they copied it.
As previously discussed in other threads, I think the people who are "teaching" on YouTube are also a big part of why reveals and tutorials are so prolific. New people get into magic and see people who are getting attention/respect putting out tutorials, so they think that must be how magic works. So they go and make reveals to be part of the cool kids party.
Also, the people who do reveal videos are doing it strictly to get views/sales/money. If they wanted to "Teach people correctly" then they'd include a lot more theory and theatrical skills, which is what makes magic good. So either A) They don't know those things, so should they be teaching? Or B) They do know those things, but they also know it won't get views/sales/money, so they just do reveals because that will get way more views. In this case, they're not Robin Hood figures, bringing magic to the poor folks who can't afford to pay for proper resources - they're just pretending to be so they can make money.
YouTube has no filter. There's nothing to stop anyone from posting reveals or tutorials, regardless of whether or not they have any business creating that tutorial. So yes, you can find some decent tutorials that will show how to do a trick or move properly. But you won't learn magic from YouTube, you'll only learn, at best, some tricks.
I'm the same way for some more difficult sleights. The books give me the general idea of how it works and a video can help me understand what it should look like. But usually for this I look up a video of a performance of it rather than a tutorial.
I like what Jamy said about the imitation thing. Someone else pointed out that books are usually more descriptive so you fully understand the sleights you're learning. With YouTube and videos in general, it's easy to sort of copy what they're doing on the screen, making it easier to learn the trick incorrectly. Books give you in depth descriptions like "the card should contact the right part of your palm and second joint of your index finger" or something like that.
I also agree with the fact that many youtube magic teachers just don't care how you'll perform it later and teach nothing about the performance aspect which is what makes magic more than just some "cool trick you can do".
When you learn from a book you have to have a basic understanding of how the trick/move/whatever works -before- you can even begin practicing it. With a video you can copy the movements on the screen, whether you understand why they are doing it/why it works, or not.
As said before, a mixed approach is definitely the best.
In today's day and age, (again, as said before) most magicians start out thru YT videos. And as a result, their first source automatically becomes You Tube.
There are lots of bad tutorials out there. Bad in the sense that, the 'teachers' either:-
a) Can't communicate with the students well, in essence, not being a good teacher just then.
b) Don't know the intricacies themselves.
But the more time you spend with magic, the more intelligent you will become. And then, you will gradually know which tutorials are good, and which ones are bad.
For You Tube, I would recommend 52 Kards, Chris Ramsay, Jay Sankey. These guys are the best teachers out there, as acknowledged by the best magicians out there on You Tube, who themselves may not post tutorials but. they know which ones are really good. The best thing abt these teachers is that they clearly credit when they should, they teach really well, and they tell everyone the source from which THEY learnt the sleights, so that further research is possible. So, you get motivated to buy books too.
Some books are really bad. But most are not. Books can really enhance your knowledge...so they should form a BIG part of your learning process. But when you CAN get additional help from videos on YT FROM GOOD TEACHERS ONLINE, then, well, why not? Compare what they teach and if their advice seems contrasting...well...
What are these forums for?
Books can really be boring if you have no motivation for reading them other than "Everyone recommends this book", because those books don't have jump-cuts, edits, etc. To get motivated, I do a number of things. And one of them is that I check out what the PERFORMANCE of a trick written in the book looks like. And if it blows my mind then I WANNA LEARN IT and presro! There's your motivation.
Do check out You Tube for suggestions, recommendations, tips, entertainment, and the occassional tutorial, again from the GOOD magic teachers there. Check out people's performances for ideas,magician interviews, etc. It's a lot of fun and enriching too.
So go ahead and buy books. It will be a worthwile investment. And check out YT as well, its a really 'emerging' star in the world of learning.
PS:- Ramsay is gonna start an amazing series of videos btw, where he and a bunch of other great magicians live all together in one mansion in LA and he is gonna upload tutorials from all those magicians, along with interviews, tips, and vlogs and fun stuff. Not a paid promotion or anything, but I am stoked abt it and suggest you seeing it because, as I said, there will be lots of advice posted too
In today's day and age, (again, as said before) most magicians start out thru YT videos. And as a result, their first source automatically becomes You Tube.
There are lots of bad tutorials out there. Bad in the sense that, the 'teachers' either:-
a) Can't communicate with the students well, in essence, not being a good teacher just then.
b) Don't know the intricacies themselves.
But the more time you spend with magic, the more intelligent you will become. And then, you will gradually know which tutorials are good, and which ones are bad.
For You Tube, I would recommend 52 Kards, Chris Ramsay, Jay Sankey. These guys are the best teachers out there, as acknowledged by the best magicians out there on You Tube, who themselves may not post tutorials but. they know which ones are really good. The best thing abt these teachers is that they clearly credit when they should, they teach really well, and they tell everyone the source from which THEY learnt the sleights, so that further research is possible. So, you get motivated to buy books too.
Some books are really bad. But most are not. Books can really enhance your knowledge...so they should form a BIG part of your learning process. But when you CAN get additional help from videos on YT FROM GOOD TEACHERS ONLINE, then, well, why not? Compare what they teach and if their advice seems contrasting...well...
What are these forums for?
Books can really be boring if you have no motivation for reading them other than "Everyone recommends this book", because those books don't have jump-cuts, edits, etc. To get motivated, I do a number of things. And one of them is that I check out what the PERFORMANCE of a trick written in the book looks like. And if it blows my mind then I WANNA LEARN IT and presro! There's your motivation.
Do check out You Tube for suggestions, recommendations, tips, entertainment, and the occassional tutorial, again from the GOOD magic teachers there. Check out people's performances for ideas,magician interviews, etc. It's a lot of fun and enriching too.
So go ahead and buy books. It will be a worthwile investment. And check out YT as well, its a really 'emerging' star in the world of learning.
PS:- Ramsay is gonna start an amazing series of videos btw, where he and a bunch of other great magicians live all together in one mansion in LA and he is gonna upload tutorials from all those magicians, along with interviews, tips, and vlogs and fun stuff. Not a paid promotion or anything, but I am stoked abt it and suggest you seeing it because, as I said, there will be lots of advice posted too
Everyone pretty much has this covered. I go with this blend- I use YouTube to mainly reverse engineer what a trick was so I can then look it up properly. Or use it to see magicians that are definitely better than myself perform a move to cross reference. But books and instructionals will keep you quite busy and hopefully learning things correctly.
thanks for the information guys. I have just had some doubts about youtube so I quit using it as a source and started reading books, but they are hard for me to comprehend and learn from because I am so used to youtube. I am very fond of Chris Ramsay, not personally though. Anyways, Is it better to stay away from it completely or still learn tricks from youtube , but not make it my only source of tricks?
My vote is avoid it entirely as a learning source. It's not worth it, and you'll most likely learn bad habits that will have to be unlearned later.
Use it for reference if necessary (seeing how a move or trick is done visually), but it's not currently a reliable source to learn from.
Use it for reference if necessary (seeing how a move or trick is done visually), but it's not currently a reliable source to learn from.
Pretty much use YouTube with a healthy dose of skepticism. It can help supplement your other sources but should not be the main source.
The difference in quality of average YouTube versus an average paid tutorial is usually apparent. Paid tutorials/books are less of a mixed bag.
Live at the table experiences are generally decent and fairly cheap if you're looking for downloads to learn from.
Some books that are great are relatively cheap too like Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic is around 10 bucks.
The difference in quality of average YouTube versus an average paid tutorial is usually apparent. Paid tutorials/books are less of a mixed bag.
Live at the table experiences are generally decent and fairly cheap if you're looking for downloads to learn from.
Some books that are great are relatively cheap too like Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic is around 10 bucks.