March 2009 :: What Drives You?

Sep 1, 2007
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But that's just it isn't it? You get through to some people doing it your way. Most people are paying attention to you now and lots hate you, you are getting some through to you. The same can be said of my way, lots of people may ignore you, but you will get through to some people. The difference is, is that you don't have to live your life with people hating you.

But doing it my way, the information actually gets out there. Your way, it goes ignored by most. Look at the thread I started, "You are not an artist!"

Probably the most confrontational thread I ever made. And within 24 hours, it got more views than even the forum rules proper did in over a year, and almost as many replies as the stickied feedback thread. Do you really think I would have gotten such a dramatic response with touchy-feely Culture of Nice pap? Of course not.

Whether people loved it or hated it, that thread got them thinking.

And this goes back to my earlier point. You criticized me saying I should question why I believe things. Well what the hell do you think that thread was about? I was forcing people to question their definition of artistry. I directly challenged their claims, something no one else here had ever done before. And when I was banned for being rude, the forum came out in force in support of me despite my approach to discourse being equivalent to taking a boat out into shark-infested waters with a bucket of chum and a dinner bell and screaming, "COME AND GET IT!!"

You may hate my methods, but I get better results than all of my critics put together.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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Actually, in my response, I was trying to push the discussion towards discussion of the idea of perfection and if it is ever possible to achieve a level of proficiency that is beyond what normal practice can achieve. So if you think that's just fluff, then I've got nothing to say to you.

Ever consider that you just didn't do a very good job of it?

But again, all you're doing is whining about how you'd do things and not actually contributing to this topic. I urge you, make it interesting. We both know you have that capacity.

Maybe I'm tired of doing all the legwork for you.

Like I said before, myself and others have given you the content you ask for. But you didn't do anything with it.
 

James Wise Magic

Elite Member
Dec 28, 2007
1,021
13
But doing it my way, the information actually gets out there. Your way, it goes ignored by most. Look at the thread I started, "You are not an artist!"

Probably the most confrontational thread I ever made. And within 24 hours, it got more views than even the forum rules proper did in over a year, and almost as many replies as the stickied feedback thread. Do you really think I would have gotten such a dramatic response with touchy-feely Culture of Nice pap? Of course not.

Whether people loved it or hated it, that thread got them thinking.

And this goes back to my earlier point. You criticized me saying I should question why I believe things. Well what the hell do you think that thread was about? I was forcing people to question their definition of artistry. I directly challenged their claims, something no one else here had ever done before. And when I was banned for being rude, the forum came out in force in support of me despite my approach to discourse being equivalent to taking a boat out into shark-infested waters with a bucket of chum and a dinner bell and screaming, "COME AND GET IT!!"

You may hate my methods, but I get better results than all of my critics put together.

Do you count most of the most views as "results?" Most of the posts were going against you. I would count results as people siding with you. Like I said, I agree with you completly 120% on what you're trying to do. Now you don't have to be all, "Happy with smiles of joy with candycane mountains" to get your point across. You can be broad and to the point without being rude. More or less in the middle of nice and rude.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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Middle of the road between nice and rude is even more generic and faceless.

As for results, the purpose of that thread was not to win converts to my extraordinarily militant opinions of what is and is not art. I prefer to measure success in terms of quality instead of quantity.
 
Dec 22, 2007
567
1
Long Island, New York
I'll be honest, the only reason I peeked inside this thread was because I saw Steerpike had the last post. I now have lost 5 minutes of my life reading about people who I never will meet lives'....
 
Sep 17, 2008
195
1
Maryland
There has always been a drive in me to be all that I could try and be. When magic is involved, I find myself wanting just to go all out and have a good time. I want to show people something that they can really take home later and talk about. I'm driven by the constant push of perfection. Magic has allowed me to read people differently and discover more about myself through watching their reactions. This drive will constantly be for the entertainment of others as well as myself. I feel good about myself when I have blown someone's mind with a trick. I feel good when a trick I have practiced on forever works out perfectly. When my spectator reaches down to pick up their card that was impossibly placed upside down in the deck between two other cards, and their reaction leads them to run away from me like I am possessed, but soon after return to give me the card back....that's what drives me.
 
Dec 5, 2008
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Wow... tough topic.... what drives me, i would say my brain does most of the driving. But when it comes to magic, i love the feeling of making someone feel like something impossible happened right before their eyes, i love the fact that i am able to cheer people up when they are having a bad day. But what drives me towards magic the most is just being able to invest my time in somethign worth while, and with enough practise and effort put into it, it can become a job in the future.
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
I dont hate him. He's just going againts the flow. I had a little argument with morgician previously as well, but i did not feel hatred or anything similar towards him before, during and after the argument.

I am glad to hear that.

I think Holyshnikes had the start of a good answer.

I think Dragon521 hit the truth on the head - Steerpike is a leader that knows his stuff, but gets treated with very little respect - constantly having to argue thoughts that have great importance and relevance.

Honestly, few have the education or the experience to question him in an aggressive way - SURE, question him, but I see it as attacks and diagreements, rather than a process of communication from those that THINK they know arguing against those that have something to share that could help you.

Many of you teens are so emotionally charged from not being able to get a girl to release the issues (sorry ladies) that you don't know how to communicate like a decent person in text. Call it lack of education or poor social skills...it often comes across as both.

I think Steerpike has decided that wearing the badge of "I know what I am doing so F off" when he speaks is the only way to enter this jungle of disrepect shown by most posters.

Honestly, I don't blame him - there are a few of you that I know one day our paths will cross...and I am going to whoop you like a rented mule right in the middle of a convention - and believe me, I have the skills to do it. Most guys are tough on forums, but they forget...we are real people, doing you a favour by sharing what we have spent years learning - and you thank guys like Steerpike by being a jerk.

I will tell you what - if you approach Steerpike with kindness in your heart, he will return it - but he has been so many times by your douches that, in my opinion, would rather come out firing first.

So - if you hate him - it is your fault - you created the monster...

You don't like HIS approach - yet I see SO many posts MORE aggresive and full of crap than ANY post Steerpike could write while drunk - and YOU tolerate it.

Shame on you all - at least Steerpike has a point to what he says.

You wonder why he talks down to you - when you allow this? Morons - seriously.
 
Jan 18, 2009
146
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After reading all of this it seems topic is offhand yet again because apparently Steerpike likes having his opinion heard and starting up UNNECESSARY controversy. Arguing and debating is great but when someone wants to have a god dam ego dump then let them, it doesn't affect you if you don't look at it.

I've been reading so many posts from you and while some are great and really makes me look at things in different perspective. Though your constant rudeness has led me to the fact you are a douchebag, in an out you are a jackass. Do you have a wife or a girlfriend? If so then how can they stand so much damn criticism from one human being? Before you start writing anything just know that no matter how you argue your points or what is wrong with mine because I know you love writing how much my **** stinks and yours doesn't. People are different than you and Morgician since you put yourself with him, people don't push things that are wrong underneath the carpet or couch whichever you complained about. They realize they are wrong and rather than making a spectacle about it they know they messed up and they are correct. You just like to be right and make people agree with your opinions.

Morgician the reason that people won't take advice is for a few reasons, I only know of him on the forums where he is a complete jerk because he knows everything somehow. He constantly talks like he is quoting from a magical advice book, while he says that his film is precious and he has no way to film his endeavors in magic. I have no idea if he makes his living off of magic or not and not allowing anybody to see it makes me believe that he knows very little.

I just can't wait to see what you write and how I am wrong about what you are doing and why I am at fault because apparently my opinion of you is wrong and how I am misguided or w/e crap you decide to type down this time.
 
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Mar 29, 2008
882
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Writing down user name Mentalizing on list of people to "bump into" at convention.

Seriously though Mentalizing - do you realize your post is FULL of the same stuff that you just spouted you hated - seems a bit hypocritical.

SO really, no point in replying to someone that is so abusive that I MYSELF wonder if you have a wife, girlfriend or boyfriend - because if so, they must love being verbally abused.

Mentalizing, the truth is - it is not about being right or wrong - it is a respect issue...but I already wrote that, but you didn't respect me enough to read it....so really, why bother with you.

Moving on!!
 
Jan 18, 2009
146
1
I guess your slow to my post Morgician, you I have no problem with because your posts are written down so people don't have to feel like jerkoffs. I spoke to Steerpike and his criticism not to you. The respect thing was over with when all I read was disrespectful comments to others, of course that could just be my dyslexia. I have never gone to conventions so I guess I can't be there to do whatever you are threatening to do to me. I do have a girlfriend of only about a month and I don't criticize or verbally abuse as you like to have put it unless I have been apart of or witness of some type of abuse or anything related.

You must have really missed the point of my thread since they entire hypocrisy thing was based on complete sarcasm and how annoying it is to others. Of course you must have just skimmed through my post without giving any thought to mine or yours.

But agreed moving on.
 
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D

Deleted member 2755

Guest
WHoaaaaaahhhhhh.... I've been staying away from this thread for way too long.:p Thought I would pop my head in here for a quick sec (and possibly give a valid response to the original post in the thread).

This thread is meant for discussion of the topic at hand. Anything off topic from the original post should not be posted. This is just a nice place where a T11 artist makes a thread and we just give our responses and look at other responses. If you have nothing to contribute, perhaps its best you just don't post. That's just my views anyway.

Let's try to steer things on track. If you think the topic is stupid, simply don't post in it.

Anyway, now for my actual response.

As for what drives me.... Originally my answer was that I honestly don't know. Ha. Well I thought about it a bit more in depth and I finally got a real answer.

The future drives me. I have certain goals in magic and I have certain dates that I have to achieve them by. If I can't, then its not too big of a deal. However, I would prefer if I met them and I work hard every day to meet them. Magic is something that I enjoy doing and I want to take it further someday. As a profession? Heck, if I can then sure. I would love nothing more than doing what I love daily. As a side profession? Absolutely. :)

-Doug
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
You don't like HIS approach - yet I see SO many posts MORE aggresive and full of crap than ANY post Steerpike could write while drunk - and YOU tolerate it.
AThough your constant rudeness has led me to the fact you are a douchebag, in an out you are a jackass. Do you have a wife or a girlfriend? If so then how can they stand so much damn criticism from one human being?

Just thought I would juxtapose those two together to make a point.

You just like to be right and make people agree with your opinions.

Who doesn't like to be right?

As for making people agree with me, it would be pretty damn boring if everyone thought like me.

I only know of him on the forums where he is a complete jerk because he knows everything somehow.

Not everything. Just a lot.

He constantly talks like he is quoting from a magical advice book,

This one confuses me a bit. Clarify?

while he says that his film is precious and he has no way to film his endeavors in magic. I have no idea if he makes his living off of magic or not and not allowing anybody to see it makes me believe that he knows very little.

Actually, I made a demo tape for prospective clients. It's on my website, the link to which is in my signature. Check it out if you feel so inclined. Yeah, the picture quality is pretty awful, I admit. But there you have it.

I just can't wait to see what you write and how I am wrong about what you are doing and why I am at fault because apparently my opinion of you is wrong and how I am misguided or w/e crap you decide to type down this time.

You're not at fault. You just have no self-control. You launched an attack on me far more hostile and vicious than anything I've leveled against even my worst enemies.

I'm not saying I'm hurt. I've actually been called much worse for far less. What I am saying is, well.... Glass houses, friend.

Now, should you wish to discuss this issue with me with a modicum of intelligence, I would be thrilled and all will be forgiven. What say you?

This thread is meant for discussion of the topic at hand. Anything off topic from the original post should not be posted. This is just a nice place where a T11 artist makes a thread and we just give our responses and look at other responses.

Doug, I think you know that such a sentiment speaks to my deep dislike of complacency.

But as a favor to you, I'll throw everyone a bone.

What drives me? Evolution. Make of that what you will.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
What drives me... My car!

Actually just being different and not being a sheep.

Also I highly doubt Steerpike posts like he acts in real life. For a few reasons that it would likely not get him any gigs no matter how talented he is. He would probably end up losing a lot of friends. And also look like Tito Ortiz after a fight with Chuck Lidell. Only worse.
 
What drives me? Evolution. Make of that what you will.

Unless you say otherwise, i'll assume you mean it in reference to the psychological aspect of magic because you can't be talking about Sponge Balls & Biddle Tricks :rolleyes:. Of course, I can't completely judge off of the one video.

Right now (for me), it's not about spectators & reactions. Once in a while i'll show a few friends a couple of small things i've been working on, but i'm by no means a full fledged performer, simply because I have no desire to at this point and time. With that said, it's about The Challenge Of Endless Perfection, Creation & Knowledge (That and I happen to like doing it, go figure :rolleyes:). Knowledge, not in the "Oh, now I know how it's done." sense, but the "Why was this created? What was he thinking? etc." sense.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
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Who said I was talking just about magic? I would have thought by now that when I say, "Make of that what you will," people would know things are rarely that simple.
 

Lex

Dec 18, 2007
51
0
50
Chicago, IL
This is just a nice place where a T11 artist makes a thread and we just give our responses and look at other responses.

I'll see this . . .

I would humbly suggest that Steerpike had a good point in saying that the point of Cerca Trova was to foster discussion. Giving a response and reading other responses is more like "Show and Tell": valuable for some things, to be sure, but it is not discussion because there is no interaction. I suspect that T11 aims higher than simply people showing each other magic and walking on. It isn't just a retail outlet for artists' tricks. It seems to be more about engaging each other in making better magic (from my admittedly very limited perspective).

. . . and raise you one:

I would also disagree that the quality of a discussion is determined solely by the answers. The initial question frames the inquiry and sets the tone. This question simply asked for a factual answer: What drives you? That is a question that demands no follow-ups: one can answer then walk away. Again, fine for many purposes, but it does not foster discussion as much as a question that demands judgments where people will differ.

So to that end, I would offer a rewording of the question that sharpens the discussion some:

What should motivate you? Take a critical look at what does motivate you and decide whether you're happy with that. What is best for you? For your audience? For magic as an art?

For example, many people have pointed out that they are motivated by the reactions people have to them. All well and good, but you can also get reactions like smiles and astonishment by just being really nice, offering money, or dropping your pants. Why pick magic over any of these other methods? ("It's what I'm good at" doesn't cut it--why did you choose to become good at magic in order to get these reactions, rather than, say, the piccolo?)

That's one possibility. I'm sure there are others. But hopefully this can move the thread away from being about Steerpike's personality and more toward a more direct engagement with the subject matter of Tom's original question.
 

jonraiker

vp of development
Team member
Aug 5, 2007
1,330
24
Florida
instagram.com
Back on topic: I think there are a number of things that drive us to dedicate ourselves to magic and pursue it with passion. I'll touch on a few of them here.

Humans are obviously emotional and sociable beings and, as such, we enjoy interacting with others. Magic gives us an easy way to do that. Why magic over something else? When we get down to it - circumstance. Maybe you saw a magician at a local cafe perform an effect that inspired or touched you. For me, it was the day I checked out two books on card magic from my school's library at the tender age of seven, that started me down this wondrous path.

Secondly, we (again, as humans) take pride in our accomplishments. Perfecting a move like the Center Deal (which probably won't happen in your lifetime ;)) brings us the same joy and sense of accomplishment a pianist receives after finally mastering a solo piece.

With so much going on in the world today, magic gives not only us (as the student and performer) a way to escape, but your audience as well. We live and remember through experiences, both positive and negative - and if I can divert someone's mind away from all the negative for just a brief moment and leave them with a positive memory in its place, then I've done my job.

Great posts thus far. Looking forward to reading more of your thoughts.
 
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