The Answer?

[ZacEckstein]

We need to start looking at magic as an art form instead of an ego trip. The only way magic will advance in the peoples eye, is if we tell them that what we do is an art. Then all of a sudden you aren't being heckled and people enjoy it more. For example, when you are going to perform tell them what we do is an art. People sit around and invent the things you see Angel or Blaine do on T.V. . Give this as an example. When a Pacaso exhibit is coming to your museum, your museum didn't create the artwork, they are just merely presenting it for you so you can enjoy it and have fun! Magic is the exact same thing. Don't keep the people in the dark, just like any creator in art there is one in magic. Give credit where it's due... it's a very hard pill to swallow, but once you tell them that people sit around and create these things you show them, suddenly the pressure is off of you and you're not being heckled because they know you didn't create it and they enjoy it so much more now that you level with them. I know no one is going to say " Daniel Garcia and Dan White invented this effect where I blow up a balloon and put your phone in it." Because it just doesn't feel right to you. That is because you have been selfish with magic for the longest time and don't want to give credit where it's due because you want to be in the spotlight. But if you explain it like I did and tell them that it truly is an art form, and you give that example of the museum.... you will be the better for it. You aren't paying attention to the fact that to better the art of magic you can't be secretive to the public, and after all, they are the ones who watch us perform. Stop focusing on the trick, your presentation even to a degree isn't as important as what I told you. If you don't change your attitude, the public will have a snow balls chance in hell of changing theirs.


- Zac

P.S. :: I am reiterating a lot of this from Paul Harris.

 

[emagician]

I like this thought Z!

 

[ZacEckstein]

I like this thought Z!

Thanks man.

EDIT:: http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?t=20427
http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?t=20404
http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?t=20364

Like, Why are we wasting our time with these threads... No offense, but come on. instead of worrying about crap that doesn't matter, you can be improving yourself. finding ways to amaze the audience. The last link has been neaten to hell. Why even bring it up. That was a little off subject but, If we are worried about dumb crap like that... (sigh)

 

[ajp500]

I really don't think people care where you learned it. They care more about being entertained. When they do ask where you learned it, they don't mean it, they just want to have a freindly conversation.

 

[ZacEckstein]

I really don't think people care where you learned it. They care more about being entertained. When they do ask where you learned it, they don't mean it, they just want to have a freindly conversation.

So it would seem, wouldn't it? When you show them your "trick" they feel tricked. When you show them your "art" they feel enlightened and happier. The conversation part is true, I'll give you that. But they do mean it, wouldn't you?

 

[ajp500]

So it would seem, wouldn't it? When you show them your "trick" they feel tricked. When you show them your "art" they feel enlightened and happier. The conversation part is true, I'll give you that. But they do mean it, wouldn't you?

How do they know you are showing then a trick or an art though?

How do you tell if they feel enlightened or tricked?

 

[ZacEckstein]

Very Good Question! I am glad you asked.

Notice in this video :: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vPDBedX7Rk

They think they got tricked... I knew even though I got away with it, i didn't do my job. Even though there was a great reaction, again, I didn't do my job.


Notice in this video :: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ligwZRe7J4

Since it was with their phone and they examined the balloon, they are in complete disbelief. Watch the crowd to the left of me. you'll see.

 

[ajp500]

I watched both your videos and you did get great reatcions.

In both those videos i noticed you didn't give credit to the people who created these tricks when you say to do so in your post here. Maybe you recently thought of the idea? Maybe it sliped your mind? I don't know.

I think if you want to enlighten your audience, the general public is not the place to do it. I think people like Penn and Teller enlighten there audince with not just magic but interesting concepts and making people look at ways in a new unique way.

I would'nt say you "tricked" them in that video, if you tricked them i think they might of been angrier more then happy.

You more amazed them, they thought you did somthing that was cool, but no one should settle at that. People have to make a long lasting impression on there audince, and that comes by connecting to your audince.

If i am missing the point please tell me...

 

[ZacEckstein]

I watched both your videos and you did get great reatcions.

In both those videos i noticed you didn't give credit to the people who created these tricks when you say to do so in your post here. Maybe you recently thought of the idea? Maybe it sliped your mind? I don't know.

I think if you want to enlighten your audience, the general public is not the place to do it. I think people like Penn and Teller enlighten there audince with not just magic but interesting concepts and making people look at ways in a new unique way.

I would'nt say you "tricked" them in that video, if you tricked them i think they might of been angrier more then happy.

You more amazed them, they thought you did somthing that was cool, but no one should settle at that. People have to make a long lasting impression on there audince, and that comes by connecting to your audince.

If i am missing the point please tell me...

I first came across this idea from Paul Harris, very recently. In fact just last night is when I pondered it. What Penn & Teller do is show them how they are tricking them. Not the same concept I am trying to push. You have to really understand that MAGIC is an ART. A lot of people say they know it, but they don't. And once you realize that, a world will open to you. I am going to go out and film this weekend. I'll show you what I am talking about.I will do the same trick for 2 diferent groups. One will be the old way I perform, and one will be the way I am preaching at you.

 

[ajp500]

I first came across this idea from Paul Harris, very recently. In fact just last night is when I pondered it. What Penn & Teller do is show them how they are tricking them. Not the same concept I am trying to push. You have to really understand that MAGIC is an ART. A lot of people say they know it, but they don't. And once you realize that, a world will open to you. I am going to go out and film this weekend. I'll show you what I am talking about.I will do the same trick for 2 diferent groups. One will be the old way I perform, and one will be the way I am preaching at you.

Thank you, I will look foward to it.

What bothers me is this...

A working magicains who performs for restraunts and parties, he would be more a professional entertainer then a artist? He does magic witch is art correct? But he is not creating any art.

A creater in magic (take jay sankey for example) did do parties and reastraunt work, but now it looks like he is inventing and creating magic alot more then he is doing private gigs.. That makes him a artist, hes creating art.

 

[ZacEckstein]

Thank you, I will look foward to it.

What bothers me is this...

A working magicains who performs for restraunts and parties, he would be more a professional entertainer then a artist? He does magic witch is art correct? But he is not creating any art.

A creater in magic (take jay sankey for example) did do parties and reastraunt work, but now it looks like he is inventing and creating magic alot more then he is doing private gigs.. That makes him a artist, hes creating art.

I am not sure what's bothering you. If you create you are an artist. If you present you are a presenter. One can't survive without the other.

 

[ajp500]

What bothers me is when people say magic is a art, but it's really not if you don't create anything on a regular bases..

Im sure everyone has created there own effect, but how many do you create? . Back in the 5th grade i made somthing in art class. Does that mean i'm a artist? No.

 

[DannyT]

What bothers me is when people say magic is a art, but it's really not if you don't create anything on a regular bases..

Im sure everyone has created there own effect, but how many do you create? . Back in the 5th grade i made somthing in art class. Does that mean i'm a artist? No.

Like Z said, picture the magician as the museum and the magic as the paintings.
You don't need to be an artist (creating tricks) to be a magician, while magic can still be art.

But in a strange way, the magician is an artist in the spectators eyes because they are creating something impossible.

 

[ZacEckstein]

Like Z said, picture the magician as the museum and the magic as the paintings.
You don't need to be an artist (creating tricks) to be a magician, while magic can still be art.

But in a strange way, the magician is an artist in the spectators eyes because they are creating something impossible.

Excellent Danny T!

 

[jmstrings]

Whoever thinks that magic isn't an art because you don't "invent tricks" is completely uninformed about what a performance art is.

I'm a guitarist, for almost 9 years now. I've written many of my own songs, performed others, improvised my own jams, played shows, played on the streets, you name it. Sometimes there are creative periods when, by unfortunate circumstances, you just arrive at a block. It can last an infinite amount of time. If I perform covers for a year and don't write any of my own material, does that make me any less of an artist? Absolutely not.


Now, in the above paragraph you can replace "songs" with "tricks", "jams" with "impromptu illusions", "played shows" with "performed on the streets", and the list goes on infinitely.

Magic is an art that combines a multitude of different elements and ingredients to ultimately create something that is seemingly impossible. These components range from misdirection, sleight of hand, dexterity, psychology, creativity, cleverness, improvisational skills, confidence, control, etc. etc. ETC! The list goes on and I doubt anyone will ever be able to make a complete list that captures every piece of an illusion, which is a beautifully thought out and executed piece of art.


Thank you.