Artifice v2? Really?

cesarmadera

Operations Manager
Team member
Aug 14, 2010
26
0
Is it just me or is Ellusionist heavily relying sometimes on theory11 for innovation? I mean no one in the industry but theory11 and Dan&Dave create "versions" and "editions" of their playing cards while Ellusionist just creates them and keeps printing them until the end of time... until now.

And this is just one extreme example as to why I see theory11 as Apple and Ellusionist as everyone else. I just feel disappointed with E seeing as how I grew up with them. They were indeed my foundation to my magic.

I like Ellusionist, but lately I've been trying hard. With the Wire being released tomorrow and the Bicycle partnership, I feel that 20 years from now theory11 will be heavily remembered as compared to everyone else. My point is that in any industry, you need change and you need to take risks, incredibly researched and prepared ones that will work. Ellusionist revolutionized the magic industry from 2001 - 2005 with their unique "MTV-like style" however they've stayed stuck in time thinking that will work for them forever.
 

Lyle Borders

Elite Member
Aug 5, 2008
1,604
859
Seattle, WA
www.theory11.com
Ceasarmadera,

We appreciate the kind words of support, especially as we move into the final hours of the countdown to the release of The Wire. That said, though we make every effort to stand on our own and be unique, we don't want to cultivate any unnecessary negativity, even towards our competitors, within these forums.

I will leave this thread open for now, but understand that even though we may talking truthfully, this discussion could get out of hand easily, and it will be closed if it does.

Thanks for being awesome!

L
 

RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
There is more to magic than T11, D&D and Ellusionist. Each company has great products and not so great products, but they are only a small slice of the world of magic. As for cards, judge each deck individually, not based on which company makes it.

That being said, I don't think calling something a "V2" evidences a lack of creativity or innovation. The second version is dramatically different than the first version in that it has a border. I've seen the design for the new Artifice cards and the way they've done the border looks really good. Judge the cards based on the product, not the designation.
 
Version 2 will fix one MAJOR problem with the version one artifices. The borderless nature of the cards makes them stand out like an eye sore when you flip a card over and insert it face up in an otherwise face down deck. You can spot the reversal a mile away, which makes it nearly impossible to do certain types of magic tricks, triumph being only the first that comes to mind.

This is less about hype and collectability and more about making a more usable product.
 

formula

Elite Member
Jan 8, 2010
968
5
Why haven't I heard anything about this? They're decent cards so adding borders will be nice.
 

SoClose25

Elite Member
Jul 19, 2011
44
4
Version 2 will fix one MAJOR problem with the version one artifices. The borderless nature of the cards makes them stand out like an eye sore when you flip a card over and insert it face up in an otherwise face down deck. You can spot the reversal a mile away, which makes it nearly impossible to do certain types of magic tricks, triumph being only the first that comes to mind.

This is less about hype and collectability and more about making a more usable product.

I agree, I liked the back design itself but the borderless design just wasn't for me. I'm happy to hear that they'll add the borders to the back design, good "upgrade". :)
 
Jun 24, 2008
493
0
Harrisonburg, VA
As William stated, E is releasing V2 for the purpose of correcting problems that the community had with the original deck. If anything, you should be happy that E listens to its customers and makes changes accordingly.
 
Jul 30, 2011
42
0
what!? E is listening to customers now? what posers T11 was doing that first...

I'm just joking, of course, but this sounds much more like an upgrade then anything else.
 
Nov 9, 2010
188
1
Is it just me or is Ellusionist heavily relying sometimes on theory11 for innovation? I mean no one in the industry but theory11 and Dan&Dave create "versions" and "editions" of their playing cards while Ellusionist just creates them and keeps printing them until the end of time... until now.

And this is just one extreme example as to why I see theory11 as Apple and Ellusionist as everyone else. I just feel disappointed with E seeing as how I grew up with them. They were indeed my foundation to my magic.

I like Ellusionist, but lately I've been trying hard. With the Wire being released tomorrow and the Bicycle partnership, I feel that 20 years from now theory11 will be heavily remembered as compared to everyone else. My point is that in any industry, you need change and you need to take risks, incredibly researched and prepared ones that will work. Ellusionist revolutionized the magic industry from 2001 - 2005 with their unique "MTV-like style" however they've stayed stuck in time thinking that will work for them forever.

Full disclosure from the start - I work for Ellusionist and I have talked to Jonathan personally about posting on these forums so you guys know this. I'm also not here to do any sort of campaigning as I believe that good products will speak for themselves, however I felt that I could clarify a few things.

There's a difference between the limited editions you see from companies like theory11, Dan & Dave Industries etc, compared to what Ellusionist will do with the Artifice Second Edition. t11 and D&D are producing decks they limit from the start, a limiting some like and others dislike. What we at Ellusionist usually do is keep our decks in print for as long as they are in demand - which some like and others dislike. After all, there's no pleasing everyone and there's no absolute truth to how these things should be done, with pros and cons for both. The only reason we're stopping the print of the Artifice First Edition is because we want to make changes to the design that customers have asked for. We're implementing them for you guys.

I truly believe that we are still pushing the boundaries and breaking new ground with our products, just as I believe that other companies do the same to varying degrees. With that said - this is theory11's forum and so I don't feel the need to take up anymore space here talking about E.

Thanks, guys.
 

cesarmadera

Operations Manager
Team member
Aug 14, 2010
26
0
Full disclosure from the start - I work for Ellusionist and I have talked to Jonathan personally about posting on these forums so you guys know this. I'm also not here to do any sort of campaigning as I believe that good products will speak for themselves, however I felt that I could clarify a few things.

There's a difference between the limited editions you see from companies like theory11, Dan & Dave Industries etc, compared to what Ellusionist will do with the Artifice Second Edition. t11 and D&D are producing decks they limit from the start, a limiting some like and others dislike. What we at Ellusionist usually do is keep our decks in print for as long as they are in demand - which some like and others dislike. After all, there's no pleasing everyone and there's no absolute truth to how these things should be done, with pros and cons for both. The only reason we're stopping the print of the Artifice First Edition is because we want to make changes to the design that customers have asked for. We're implementing them for you guys.

I truly believe that we are still pushing the boundaries and breaking new ground with our products, just as I believe that other companies do the same to varying degrees. With that said - this is theory11's forum and so I don't feel the need to take up anymore space here talking about E.

Thanks, guys.

If you truly believe this not because of the fact that you work for them then I respect and applaud your opinion. Cheers mate.
 
That being said, I don't think calling something a "V2" evidences a lack of creativity or innovation. The second version is dramatically different than the first version in that it has a border. I've seen the design for the new Artifice cards and the way they've done the border looks really good. Judge the cards based on the product, not the designation.

Exactly, T11 just realeased a V2 for their Guardians and D&D have nurmorous versions of their Smoke and Mirrors, each is different, but still inovative. Comparing these sites are like apples to oranges, they may have similar marketing techniques, but are very different
 
Jul 30, 2011
42
0
currently, i only own a red artifice deck so i don't play around with it too much. I did, however, just order two blue artifice so i would have a few decks the the v1's.

im excited to see the bordered artifice decks! has anyone seen a picture of these yet?
 
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