A few problems with theory11

[S3al]

I have a few questions regarding theory11. Over the course starting from day 1 (when the site went up) I have seen it to be a problem. Now some of these questions may make people mad. But that is not my intention. This topic is here for a discussion, not for yelling at one of each other calling people names. So let’s try to be nice.


Some people may remember some of the things that I have said about theory11, and they where said disrespectfully. That is why I made the above statement. Because I will not let that be the case here. So let’s get on with it already.


In the video “what is theory 11” they talk about how tricks, good or bad, are released anyway, even if it is not original. In Mr. Kenner's artist teaser, he talks about how magic is the same thing over and over again. So from the sound of it, I would say that’s a bad thing. So my question is, why is theory11 doing that?

4 out of the 6 tricks on the site are recycled magic. They are not new, and some of them have been out for a wile. The only trick t11 had when it first went up, that was new, was “panic”

Why are you guys saying that “a revolution is coming” That this is the next step in magic, and then release old effects?

That makes no sense to me.


Now if you take a quick look at Mr. Kenner’s artist profile. And you will read this.

“I mean, just be what you are. There is nothing wrong with being a normal close-up guy or a standard comedy magician, just be aware that is what you are.”

So in other words, stay true to your self, nothing wrong with that. But why does it seem theory 11 is not following its own advice? If you take a quick look under the theory 11 logo, you will read “Underground magic epicenter”

So do you mean underground as in the site’s servers are underground? Or do you mean underground in the way that most people think you do, and that is “secret”

This place is not a secret, it’s not underground. The reason I believe you put that there was for the newbie’s (you may find this insulting if you play a lot of video games but this is not the case) to feel special. And that they are cool underground magic people. That hurts magic more then it does help it. So why does it say that? I mean really why the heck is that even there?

And you say that the site was about bringing the magic community together. To bring us ALL together. So then why is there not a mental magic forum? Or mentalism (what ever you like to call it) it plays a big part in everything, yet there is no forum for it, even after it has been asked for many times.

Why not?


Well, those are my questions and my problems I have had with this place. I hope to have a nice discussion, and maybe get some of these things answered.

 

[TheStreetAce]

That's like saying E is stupid (they are but for other reasons) they have Magic Beyond Belief on their page. That doesn't make sense how can magic be beyond Belief? Especially when it's from E they are the farthest thing from real magic.

If you have that many problems with real magicians here at theory 11 go back to E and buy some black tigers and the products you predict Criss Angel will be marketing in mid 2008.

Also since when is a revolution coming? That's news to me? They just want to help the industry. Underground epicenter means they are releasing versions of tricks never released and they are creating amazing new magic. (Unlike E they market old tricks and horrible new ones with flaws.) So don't make a thread about your problems just go somewhere else.....

 

[TheMagicOfT]

Actually the panic gimmick was around before panic was out. In some jay sankey lecture notes he teaches you a different routine with the gimmick though.

 

[copperfield 14]

Also since when is a revolution coming? That's news to me? They just want to help the industry. Underground epicenter means they are releasing versions of tricks never released and they are creating amazing new magic. (Unlike E they market old tricks and horrible new ones with flaws.) So don't make a thread about your problems just go somewhere else.....

Check out Dan and Daves' artist teaser. Most of the tricks all old but who hasn't marketed old tricks and changed the handling a bit.

 

[S3al]

That's like saying E is stupid (they are but for other reasons) they have Magic Beyond Belief on their page. That doesn't make sense how can magic be beyond Belief? Especially when it's from E they are the farthest thing from real magic.

If you have that many problems with real magicians here at theory 11 go back to E and buy some black tigers and the products you predict Criss Angel will be marketing in mid 2008.

Also since when is a revolution coming? That's news to me? They just want to help the industry. Underground epicenter means they are releasing versions of tricks never released and they are creating amazing new magic. (Unlike E they market old tricks and horrible new ones with flaws.) So don't make a thread about your problems just go somewhere else.....

I do not by decks from E. I bought 1 of each when they had that deal about 6-7 months back, thats it. But if it makes you feel better, you can buy them.

And when is a revolution coming? no idea, they said it. And if thats what underground means, they have broke that rule many times.

 

[elitespart]

It's called smart marketing. Every business's MAIN purpose is to make money. This is the same with T11 or any other magic site. Personally, I think they did an excellent job to attract customers. Welcome to the world of capitalism.

 

[Sergey]

Well, coming up with new concepts in magic is not easy, you can't do it overnight. Tell me do you like the tricks:Witness, Distortion, TnR, Digital Dissolve? If you do than, you wouldn't have them, if theory11 kept only Panic as their only trick, since it's new, and not a recycle. But if you don't like it here you can always leave just like somebody above said. I personally love the t11 forums and media section, although the trick variety isn't big, but thats because it's a new site.

 

[S3al]

Well, coming up with new concepts in magic is not easy, you can't do it overnight. Tell me do you like the tricks:Witness, Distortion, TnR, Digital Dissolve? If you do than, you wouldn't have them, if theory11 kept only Panic as their only trick, since it's new, and not a recycle. But if you don't like it here you can always leave just like somebody above said. I personally love the t11 forums and media section, although the trick variety isn't big, but thats because it's a new site.

My point is they are saying one thing, and then doing another. I mean this is not just a magic store. These are top magicians that a lot of people (like my self) look up to at times. What they say and do effects the magic community. I just wish they would follow there own advice, then others might do the same. I mean, its a big thing to go and take a stance against somthing, and then do it your self.

 

[cbols23]

Hey come on guys, We all are excepted here. Don't tell people to "Go Back To E"

I have to somewhat agree with S3al because if you were here from the begining you did not know what to expect. I am not going against anyone but some of the "Recycled" tricks do have very well handling, even though I have yet to have a product here to persuade me enough to buy it(no offense).

I don't hate this place but I do not think it is the "Coolest Ever", not that anyone said that.


But Elitespart was sort of right. I do not know if he was here from the start but , even the artists here take magic seriosly, but Money is a main point.

I am not saying it is the only point but it is a big one.

 

[copperfield 14]

Hey come on guys, We all are excepted here. Don't tell people to "Go Back To E"

Who would go back to E. I want to go back to decknique and see many members post.

 

[cbols23]

Who would go back to E. I want to go back to decknique and see many members post.

Exactly my point.

 

[Dana Hocking]

In the video “what is theory 11” they talk about how tricks, good or bad, are released anyway, even if it is not original. In Mr. Kenner's artist teaser, he talks about how magic is the same thing over and over again. So from the sound of it, I would say that’s a bad thing. So my question is, why is theory11 doing that?

We have released nothing but original material. Every effect on this site is the intellectual property of the artist and is credited properly. The only exception to this was Digital Dissolve, but that has been completely and fully resolved with the original creator.

Also, we are looking to put out good quality material. Period. That includes, in some cases, material that some people may already know about. The overwhelming response to effects like Witness that have already been released by the artist previously in one form or another, has been very positive because there are still a bunch of people in this community that either didn't own or didn't know about that great effect.

The goal is not releasing nothing but brand new effects. The goal is releasing valuable material. There are still a handful of brilliant effects out there that the general magic population doesn't know much about. We'll release anything that is of deserving quality and that could benefit a significant number of members of this community. Witness falls into that category. So does Digital Dissolve.

This is not to say that we will not be releasing some of the most striking new material available. Panic is completely new. TNR is completely new. Control is completely new. And there are a few in the works that I can't even mention yet.

Never once have we stated that we will be releasing nothing but brand new material. I want to be clear publicly that we are not currently, never have and never will state that.


So in other words, stay true to your self, nothing wrong with that. But why does it seem theory 11 is not following its own advice? If you take a quick look under the theory 11 logo, you will read “Underground magic epicenter”

So do you mean underground as in the site’s servers are underground? Or do you mean underground in the way that most people think you do, and that is “secret”

We don't mean "secret." I'll just clear that up right now.

We say that because contrary to what many of the hobbyists in this industry believe, there is a very real magic underground. When you begin spending time around people like Chris Kenner, Aaron Fisher, Wayne Houchin, etc. you realize that there is a very real underground community that functions within the larger magic community as a whole. The best magicians share their best material with each other and keep it from the rest of the community. I think that many of the people here would be surprised at how often you hear something like, "Here, let me show you this, but you can't show it to anybody. So and so isn't planning on releasing it." And then they'll show you something absolutely mind-blowing. And they're serious. They're not releasing it because they don't want to see their hard work ruined on YouTube.

TNR is a great example of exactly what we mean. Bich came up with it in 2002. The magic community (well, the elite circles of the magic community) have known about this effect for a while. That's what this site is about. We have the collective group of people who have enough influence in those circles that we might actually be able to pull some of those effects like TNR into a mainstream format so the rest of the community can have the opportunity to benefit from the current work of some of the greatest thinkers in modern magic.

Perhaps you think that "underground" a stupid word to call it. Perhaps you think it sounds like a marketing ploy that we use to make ourselves sound cool (which is true). That's fine. I can't do anything about that. But make no mistake about it: it does exist.

Hope this clears a few things up.

Dana

 

[Steerpike]

That's like saying E is stupid (they are but for other reasons) they have Magic Beyond Belief on their page. That doesn't make sense how can magic be beyond Belief? Especially when it's from E they are the farthest thing from real magic.

Classy. Did you type that with your pinky extended, too?

If you have that many problems with real magicians here at theory 11 go back to E and buy some black tigers and the products you predict Criss Angel will be marketing in mid 2008.

Again, classy.

Underground epicenter means they are releasing versions of tricks never released and they are creating amazing new magic.

That doesn't really answer the question.

(Unlike E they market old tricks and horrible new ones with flaws.)

I'm running out of sarcastic jokes about your unique approach to tact and arguments.

So don't make a thread about your problems just go somewhere else.....

Translation: We're all too thin-skinned and immature to deal with conflicting opinions.

God, I hate magicians.

It's called smart marketing. Every business's MAIN purpose is to make money. This is the same with T11 or any other magic site. Personally, I think they did an excellent job to attract customers. Welcome to the world of capitalism.

Most intelligent thing anyone's said yet.

 

[S3al]

Thank you for taking your time to answer my questions. You have very good points. But the reason I had these problems was because of the hype you guys created for the site, and then you release things that are already out. I'm not saying that the things where not original (original as in you did not copy from the creator) . But that the tricks where already there. Such as witness, Distortion (the gimmick was already able top be bought) the trilogy, (came out a wile ago, still great though)

So from all the hype, and the things that where said in the artist teaser's, I was expecting (as well as my friends) to get all new tricks. Never released before.

Also, I do not doubt that there is a magic underground. But theory 11 is not underground. The people may be part of an underground, but the site it's self is not.

Thanks for your help though, you cleared some things up.

 

[Dana Hocking]

Thank you for taking your time to answer my questions. You have very good points. But the reason I had these problems was because of the hype you guys created for the site, and then you release things that are already out. I'm not saying that the things where not original (original as in you did not copy from the creator) . But that the tricks where already there. Such as witness, Distortion (the gimmick was already able top be bought) the trilogy, (came out a wile ago, still great though)

So from all the hype, and the things that where said in the artist teaser's, I was expecting (as well as my friends) to get all new tricks. Never released before.

Also, I do not doubt that there is a magic underground. But theory 11 is not underground. The people may be part of an underground, but the site it's self is not.

Thanks for your help though, you cleared some things up.

You're very welcome. I'm glad this cleared some things up.

Just to clarify, we're not claiming to be the definitive underground or anything ridiculous like that, we're just hoping to merge some of the brilliant, underground effects into the mainstream so that everybody can take advantage of the thinking and process behind them. That's all. "Underground Magic Epicenter" stems from that concept. It's not meant to be taken completely literally.

Still, if you're looking for new stuff, keep paying attention. We've got more of it coming. I've said it before, but don't expect a revolution in 90 days. It will take a while to get where we're trying to go. And honestly, I can't talk publicly about how we're going to get there. I would just that people suspend judgment until we're not a new site. Wait until we've had some serious time to prove ourselves and then make your decision.

Thanks and Happy Holidays.

Dana