theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards
Does Coin Magic...
- Thread starter Morgan B
- Start date
Hi Ozzymagic,
Seems to me that we are on the same team - trying to make our magic better, stronger, more connected.
I really like your last (second to last) post. I completely agree with just about all of it...actually, I don't disagree with any of it - but I wouldn't mind discussing the emotional hook of the coin effect with the triple threat gimmick.
I understand that the method is solid, however, you propose some good questions that you sort of comb over. Great questions - dealing with emotional hoook, audience participation - you touch on how you use your personality. I would like to know more.
Because, as I will express again, only because it will help clarify the goal and our discussion - I find coin magic to be dealing with many barriers that happen in conjunction. The method's are often weak, the plots/presentations are illogical and diconnected, the audience is used as a set of eye balls rather than using the strength of interacting, and with few exclusions (often not seen by the magician doing the effect) there is no real long term impact or emotional hook.
So - can we talk about an effect that has all of those things OR what can we do to take an effect from a low end coin effect, to a better one.
We can even use a one coin flurry as our project - I just know that issues DO exist, because nobody - in 17 pages has been able to provide a solid answer.
Look forward to further discussion and reading your thoughts.
Seems to me that we are on the same team - trying to make our magic better, stronger, more connected.
I really like your last (second to last) post. I completely agree with just about all of it...actually, I don't disagree with any of it - but I wouldn't mind discussing the emotional hook of the coin effect with the triple threat gimmick.
I understand that the method is solid, however, you propose some good questions that you sort of comb over. Great questions - dealing with emotional hoook, audience participation - you touch on how you use your personality. I would like to know more.
Because, as I will express again, only because it will help clarify the goal and our discussion - I find coin magic to be dealing with many barriers that happen in conjunction. The method's are often weak, the plots/presentations are illogical and diconnected, the audience is used as a set of eye balls rather than using the strength of interacting, and with few exclusions (often not seen by the magician doing the effect) there is no real long term impact or emotional hook.
So - can we talk about an effect that has all of those things OR what can we do to take an effect from a low end coin effect, to a better one.
We can even use a one coin flurry as our project - I just know that issues DO exist, because nobody - in 17 pages has been able to provide a solid answer.
Look forward to further discussion and reading your thoughts.
Good post Morgician,
So we need to find an emotional hook for a one coin flurry? Mate I don't think you could have picked a tougher one. I think a one coin flurry is perhaps the most pointless tricks in all of coin magic and I think it is hard or next to impossible to create a hook or audience participation with this particular trick.
The greatest one coin flurry I have ever seen (technique wise) was that of David Stone. The coin vanishes appears vainishes appears flies around and grows. Visualy stunning and as a magician I realy appreciate it but what will the audience remember or tell to their friends,
"Hey I saw this guy do sick stuff with a coin"
"Realy what did he do"
"I don't know but it looked cool".
That's not the experience I am after and because I have never been able to give it a presentation I have never added it to my set (Michael Close has some great essays on this). But David Stone one of the most highly paid corporate entertainers uses it reguarly in his work, so why does it work for him? Because he uses it as a quik flahy opener to establish credibility and skill and his following tricks opens up the connection between him and the audience.
So do I believe you can have huge audience participation or emtional hooks with a one coin flurry? No. Do I believe you can create a piece of magic they will tell their kids and grandkids? NO. But I do believe if you do this as an opener and establish your self in later effects a one coin flurry can be used to great lengths and if done correctly and at the right time can help create a fealing of astonishmeant.
I no I didn't realy adress how to make an emotional hook with a one coin flurry but I thought I would give you these thoughts first. I look forward to your reply
Regards
So we need to find an emotional hook for a one coin flurry? Mate I don't think you could have picked a tougher one. I think a one coin flurry is perhaps the most pointless tricks in all of coin magic and I think it is hard or next to impossible to create a hook or audience participation with this particular trick.
The greatest one coin flurry I have ever seen (technique wise) was that of David Stone. The coin vanishes appears vainishes appears flies around and grows. Visualy stunning and as a magician I realy appreciate it but what will the audience remember or tell to their friends,
"Hey I saw this guy do sick stuff with a coin"
"Realy what did he do"
"I don't know but it looked cool".
That's not the experience I am after and because I have never been able to give it a presentation I have never added it to my set (Michael Close has some great essays on this). But David Stone one of the most highly paid corporate entertainers uses it reguarly in his work, so why does it work for him? Because he uses it as a quik flahy opener to establish credibility and skill and his following tricks opens up the connection between him and the audience.
So do I believe you can have huge audience participation or emtional hooks with a one coin flurry? No. Do I believe you can create a piece of magic they will tell their kids and grandkids? NO. But I do believe if you do this as an opener and establish your self in later effects a one coin flurry can be used to great lengths and if done correctly and at the right time can help create a fealing of astonishmeant.
I no I didn't realy adress how to make an emotional hook with a one coin flurry but I thought I would give you these thoughts first. I look forward to your reply
Regards
I think coin magic is more of a visual thing. I'm sure you could make an emotional hook with it if you tried. But other than that, I think it would be pretty difficult. Due to the fact that coins or change don't really connect with people. Sure we all have change on us at times. But not many people pay attention to the change. It's been like for decades. It looks neat when you vanish and produce a coin or do something like Silver Dream. But I don't think many people remember exactly what you did besides vanish and produce the 3 coins.
Ozzy,
Personally, I have found that using coins as an opener comes across as a challenge effect.
"So, you have never seen magic before Mr. Audience member - well...guess what hand it is in...what, you are angry that you can't figure it out. What, you are frustrated? I don't know why - I am only doing my basic job...fooling you. Nothing more. Why do you not like my second trick"?
Again Ozzy - I am not saying you can't have a connected experience with coins - but for the most part - coins don't provide a logical plot that people can get into, and create...what one young man (non-magiican) talked to me about as - lost leads. We are always asking people to look where the action is NOT happening, so we can hide where it is. In no form of magic is this relied on more than in coin work.
Let's change effects - I will leave it up to you. However, I will say this about Stone's opener - the effect relies on shock value. Only reaction - it fails to transend anything about what is to come. First impressions weigh heavy for people that have never seen magic before. I am not sure I would want a coin effect of that nature to represent my coming effects.
Personally, I have found that using coins as an opener comes across as a challenge effect.
"So, you have never seen magic before Mr. Audience member - well...guess what hand it is in...what, you are angry that you can't figure it out. What, you are frustrated? I don't know why - I am only doing my basic job...fooling you. Nothing more. Why do you not like my second trick"?
Again Ozzy - I am not saying you can't have a connected experience with coins - but for the most part - coins don't provide a logical plot that people can get into, and create...what one young man (non-magiican) talked to me about as - lost leads. We are always asking people to look where the action is NOT happening, so we can hide where it is. In no form of magic is this relied on more than in coin work.
Let's change effects - I will leave it up to you. However, I will say this about Stone's opener - the effect relies on shock value. Only reaction - it fails to transend anything about what is to come. First impressions weigh heavy for people that have never seen magic before. I am not sure I would want a coin effect of that nature to represent my coming effects.
Coin magic is magical to laymen if done and timed correctly to patter. I remember, when I was first starting magic, watching Michael Ammar doing doing a four coin basic coins across routine it looked pretty magical with basic false transfrers and simple takes. Years later I watched it again and saw how patter played a big part in making the trick work.
Also dont forget that magicians become numb to effects. But with built up presentation its still possible to experience magic event though we know whats up. For example with the ACR I knew how it was done then I watched Tommy Wonder do his routine I was floored because it got the emotional juices going.
Anyways back to coins. I'm no expert but will tell you this from experience. Coins across and coins thru solid object plots always kill. Transpo effects also. The routines I do are few: coins across with final coin arriving into specs hands, coins thru spectators hands and coins thru table all with no gaffs. Also the one in the one in the hand one in the pocket ruse is fun with a final load.
And with gaffs theres all kinds of effets I do like the routines mentioned already with a little more "miracles" and magic in spectators hands and transpo effects. A dime and penny set is good to have also because its looks like ordinary coins that people see everyday. You can do many scotch and soda effects with them. Also copper silver and hopping half effect granted you may have to use and extra coin or two. You cant beat that for six bucks.
The only other thing I can add is master the muscle pass and strike vanish. I'm not to big on palming I have an average classic palm. Finger and thumb palm is good as any for me unless a routine calls for a classic palm. I do use it in some routines.
Also keep routines going at a steady pace to keep the spectators from thinking about and figuring out what just might have happened.
Also dont forget that magicians become numb to effects. But with built up presentation its still possible to experience magic event though we know whats up. For example with the ACR I knew how it was done then I watched Tommy Wonder do his routine I was floored because it got the emotional juices going.
Anyways back to coins. I'm no expert but will tell you this from experience. Coins across and coins thru solid object plots always kill. Transpo effects also. The routines I do are few: coins across with final coin arriving into specs hands, coins thru spectators hands and coins thru table all with no gaffs. Also the one in the one in the hand one in the pocket ruse is fun with a final load.
And with gaffs theres all kinds of effets I do like the routines mentioned already with a little more "miracles" and magic in spectators hands and transpo effects. A dime and penny set is good to have also because its looks like ordinary coins that people see everyday. You can do many scotch and soda effects with them. Also copper silver and hopping half effect granted you may have to use and extra coin or two. You cant beat that for six bucks.
The only other thing I can add is master the muscle pass and strike vanish. I'm not to big on palming I have an average classic palm. Finger and thumb palm is good as any for me unless a routine calls for a classic palm. I do use it in some routines.
Also keep routines going at a steady pace to keep the spectators from thinking about and figuring out what just might have happened.
A few thoughts,
The emotional hook happens in the SPECTATORS MIND with coin magic. They see 4 coins gather invisibly from separate corners of the mat to the side, and they don't think "wow... they travelled invisibly".
They think to themselves about how it's possible... and they can't figure it out.
It's more than a puzzle,... I've had people come back a month later needing to see it again.
People thought Criss Angel was possessed when he first came out on TV in the US... they want to believe in this crap.
Besides, with card magic, the spectators know you're just doing a bunch of cuts and shuffles to find their card. It's the same game of HIDE AND SEEK, except you hide the card in the deck to "lose it" (when we know it's not lost... it's in the freakin deck). Same game.
Scott.
The emotional hook happens in the SPECTATORS MIND with coin magic. They see 4 coins gather invisibly from separate corners of the mat to the side, and they don't think "wow... they travelled invisibly".
They think to themselves about how it's possible... and they can't figure it out.
It's more than a puzzle,... I've had people come back a month later needing to see it again.
People thought Criss Angel was possessed when he first came out on TV in the US... they want to believe in this crap.
Besides, with card magic, the spectators know you're just doing a bunch of cuts and shuffles to find their card. It's the same game of HIDE AND SEEK, except you hide the card in the deck to "lose it" (when we know it's not lost... it's in the freakin deck). Same game.
Scott.
Been a long time since I was in this thread.
I agree mostly, but most coin magic is much easier to pick apart then cards, I still get "its in the other hand" sometimes, even when its not.
Here is a problem here, this is from morgician
Now, most coin effects fall under category 3 and some under 2, with a few under 1. Most coin tricks really lack the audience participation, which downplays it. Also to add onto this is something Randy said, is that while most coin magic to the magician looks truly unique and special, to the spectator, most of it looks the same. We can look at a spellbound, a 3 coin vanish, or a coins across and be looking at something that to us is stunning, but to the spectator most spellbounds look the same, as with the 3 coin vanish and most coins across.
Which is why, imo, one of the strongest effects dispite it being illogical, is a signed coin bend, this is what the spectator says to a friend about it. "I took out a coin, signed it, he took the the coin and showed it to everyone, placed it in my hand and told me to squeeze as hard as possible, when I opened my hand, the coin, which I signed, was bent" That is going to stick with them for a long time, there is so much spectator participation in an effect like that, it feels like you did almost nothing and they did all the work.
Where as a 3 coin vanish this is what they'll say "He somehow got 3 coins, each one vanished a couple of times and came back in the end." Still a good reaction from it, but it wont leave the impact that will make it so memorable.
Now dispite all this, I still am a coin guy, all I do with cards is flourishing and working on controls, passes, and shifts. I never enjoyed card magic very much, I love working with my hands, and I enjoy coins more then anything, but this argument shouldnt make you completely change your opinion and thought on coin magic, it should be food for thought, taken with a grain of salt like all things, and to leave you thinking, how could I make my magic better?
Also another thing I like about coin magic that doesnt seem to happen with any other kind of magic, is when you take out cards, some people dont seem very interested, but this never happens with coins, a kennedy half, a walking liberty, a barber, a morgan, even a quarter, they seem to just trance people, almost inviting them to inspect them, they want to see more, that and people love money, you cant deny it, you drop a quarter in a crowded room and most the people turn to see what happened.
Out of the coin effects I do for people, the one that they remember the most and ask me to show they're freinds, is something using the muscle pass. For some reason people people love the coin that falls up, I have amazed an entire room of people just with the coin that falls up. When it is hidden in an effect, people still remember it, Jet Coins, probably one of my top 3 favorite routines, somehow people always remember it. I did it for some freinds, and a few days later I overheard them talking about it. "I dont get it, I saw him place the coins in his hands, I saw them in there, his hands never came together, and somehow they went to the other hand." Idk why its so memorable, it just makes me believe that the muscle pass is one of coin magics most powerful moves, but thats another discussion itself
I agree mostly, but most coin magic is much easier to pick apart then cards, I still get "its in the other hand" sometimes, even when its not.
Here is a problem here, this is from morgician
Now, most coin effects fall under category 3 and some under 2, with a few under 1. Most coin tricks really lack the audience participation, which downplays it. Also to add onto this is something Randy said, is that while most coin magic to the magician looks truly unique and special, to the spectator, most of it looks the same. We can look at a spellbound, a 3 coin vanish, or a coins across and be looking at something that to us is stunning, but to the spectator most spellbounds look the same, as with the 3 coin vanish and most coins across.
Which is why, imo, one of the strongest effects dispite it being illogical, is a signed coin bend, this is what the spectator says to a friend about it. "I took out a coin, signed it, he took the the coin and showed it to everyone, placed it in my hand and told me to squeeze as hard as possible, when I opened my hand, the coin, which I signed, was bent" That is going to stick with them for a long time, there is so much spectator participation in an effect like that, it feels like you did almost nothing and they did all the work.
Where as a 3 coin vanish this is what they'll say "He somehow got 3 coins, each one vanished a couple of times and came back in the end." Still a good reaction from it, but it wont leave the impact that will make it so memorable.
Now dispite all this, I still am a coin guy, all I do with cards is flourishing and working on controls, passes, and shifts. I never enjoyed card magic very much, I love working with my hands, and I enjoy coins more then anything, but this argument shouldnt make you completely change your opinion and thought on coin magic, it should be food for thought, taken with a grain of salt like all things, and to leave you thinking, how could I make my magic better?
Also another thing I like about coin magic that doesnt seem to happen with any other kind of magic, is when you take out cards, some people dont seem very interested, but this never happens with coins, a kennedy half, a walking liberty, a barber, a morgan, even a quarter, they seem to just trance people, almost inviting them to inspect them, they want to see more, that and people love money, you cant deny it, you drop a quarter in a crowded room and most the people turn to see what happened.
Out of the coin effects I do for people, the one that they remember the most and ask me to show they're freinds, is something using the muscle pass. For some reason people people love the coin that falls up, I have amazed an entire room of people just with the coin that falls up. When it is hidden in an effect, people still remember it, Jet Coins, probably one of my top 3 favorite routines, somehow people always remember it. I did it for some freinds, and a few days later I overheard them talking about it. "I dont get it, I saw him place the coins in his hands, I saw them in there, his hands never came together, and somehow they went to the other hand." Idk why its so memorable, it just makes me believe that the muscle pass is one of coin magics most powerful moves, but thats another discussion itself
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Not really. It depends on how you present said card effect. If you are funny and entertaining they wont be paying to attention to your hands. The same goes for coin magic. Coins Across is a classic effect that lots of people do. But the majority enjoy seeing it happen visually. It no longer happens in their minds. They are left sitting there like "What in the name ZEUS! How did the coin fly from there to here. I have no idea... " then their heads proceed to explode... literally some times.
I'm not experienced in coin magic, but I'll only say that that's a gross simplification of card magic, scottbaird, and is only true if you are completely new or incompetent at magic.
Scott is a coin guy and has a deep seeded hatred of cards. Ever since he was kid, a card magician/Card shark robbed him and his family of whatever money they had. Then he proceeded to vanish like the wind.
praetoritevong,
In my honest opinion, you're an idiot.
Don't you see that when I'm (in your words) "grossly simplifying" card magic, I'm doing EXACTLY what this thread is trying to do to coin magic?
You guys are over simplifying coin magic by saying it can't possibly have an emotional hook because it's just vanishes and productions, hiding it in the hands, etc.
I pointed out that the same could be said about card magic, with the card just being controlled, cut, etc. Where's the emotional hook in you getting a pinky break?
Do you honestly think people are emotionally hooked by your DoubleSybilBullCrap? I don't,... so maybe you're just incompetant at magic.
I pointed out the similarities. That's all. If you want to take offence or think I'm stupid... go ahead.
BOTTOM LINE is that the only way to give your magic an emotional hook is to build a presentation around it, cards or coins or whatever.
No presentation + magic = STUPID PUZZLE.
Presentation + magic = POSSIBLE EMOTIONAL HOOK.
Notice the word "props" is not in the above equations. That's because they are IRRELEVANT to the Emotional Hook.
I say goodday!
Scott.
PS: If you're not experienced in coins, maybe you should go back to the junior card "magic" forum and leave the coin guys to their discussion, hmm?
In my honest opinion, you're an idiot.
Don't you see that when I'm (in your words) "grossly simplifying" card magic, I'm doing EXACTLY what this thread is trying to do to coin magic?
You guys are over simplifying coin magic by saying it can't possibly have an emotional hook because it's just vanishes and productions, hiding it in the hands, etc.
I pointed out that the same could be said about card magic, with the card just being controlled, cut, etc. Where's the emotional hook in you getting a pinky break?
Do you honestly think people are emotionally hooked by your DoubleSybilBullCrap? I don't,... so maybe you're just incompetant at magic.
I pointed out the similarities. That's all. If you want to take offence or think I'm stupid... go ahead.
BOTTOM LINE is that the only way to give your magic an emotional hook is to build a presentation around it, cards or coins or whatever.
No presentation + magic = STUPID PUZZLE.
Presentation + magic = POSSIBLE EMOTIONAL HOOK.
Notice the word "props" is not in the above equations. That's because they are IRRELEVANT to the Emotional Hook.
I say goodday!
Scott.
PS: If you're not experienced in coins, maybe you should go back to the junior card "magic" forum and leave the coin guys to their discussion, hmm?
Coin Magic is good because it's portable and because pretty much everybody has loose change on them. I mean, really. Who walks around with a deck of cards in their pocket all day long? That's just nonsense.
Also I'd say Coin magic hits a bit harder than card magic due to the fact that even if you are reproducing coins out of the air. People still wish they could do that. Who doesn't wish they could just walk around plucking coin or dollar bills out of the air. "Oh crap I seem to be short of change, good sir... Oh wait. Here's a few quarters AND a dollar!"
Also I'd say Coin magic hits a bit harder than card magic due to the fact that even if you are reproducing coins out of the air. People still wish they could do that. Who doesn't wish they could just walk around plucking coin or dollar bills out of the air. "Oh crap I seem to be short of change, good sir... Oh wait. Here's a few quarters AND a dollar!"
Whoa dude. Grow up. What the hell dude? Seriously, what the hell? I don't understand why one simple post that doesn't even say anything about coin magic, suddenly gets you all insulting. Doesn't say much for the type of person you are, does it? What do you know about me anyway? Tell me, what do you know about me? Nothing, you know absolutely nothing about me except your own prejudice and a way too insecure attitude.
I haven't even read this topic. I don't care, I"m not assaulting your precious coin magic, i couldn't give less of a damn what you think about coin magic. I haven't commented on what you're saying about coin magic. I haven't even said much at all. All you're doing is taking words out of my mouth and then abusing me for it. Where have I simplified coin magic? Where have I said that a pinky break has an emotional hook? I challenge you to quote me where I said that. Who the hell said I took offense to anything you say? Frankly, I don't give a **** what you have to say, so it's hard to take offense.
Mate, you're an idiot. Just grow up.
I totally disagree with your post! As a matter of fact, I have more people wanting to see coin magic than card magic. I must admit, I do more card magic, routines that is. But watching David Roth, are u kidding me? Like being at a theatre and hoping this movie will never end. To watch coins melt away from his hands. To watch his coins jump from one hand to the other. His plots, the planet, the tuning fork, the sleeve stc...and I am only talking about Roth! I haven't even touched the surface on some other magicians who do mostly card magic but have coin routines
that can be mentioned in the same conversation as Roth's work.
I am not trying to be mean here, but you need to look at some real coin magic, break it down, the theory, the reason behind what the spectator is seeing through his eyes. And by the way, didn't VERNON once say that magic is actually
how the spectator perceives ones work? whether it be sponge balls, dice, marbles, playing cards, and yes, coins. I don't do nearly as much coin magic as I should, about 5-6 routines. Why, probably because I am lazy, thats my fault not the art. My deck of cards are always around so I go to them when I should be doing coin magic. All of the things you said about coins are true with cards as well.
Go back to some of the classics, watch some of the great ones, break down the theory, and you just may find what you wrote in your post about coins is not true. Some of the most beautiful routines are done with coins. DR SAWA will make you feel differently, DR SAWA's coin magic, although very difficult will make you think, why did I ever write that post about coins. SAWA'A BANK is a classic, and it is one of the 5-6 coin routines I perform regularly. What a great piece of magic. Great presentation that is understood in the real world! Much more sense than the 5 of clubs jumping to the top of the deck 15 times.
that can be mentioned in the same conversation as Roth's work.
I am not trying to be mean here, but you need to look at some real coin magic, break it down, the theory, the reason behind what the spectator is seeing through his eyes. And by the way, didn't VERNON once say that magic is actually
how the spectator perceives ones work? whether it be sponge balls, dice, marbles, playing cards, and yes, coins. I don't do nearly as much coin magic as I should, about 5-6 routines. Why, probably because I am lazy, thats my fault not the art. My deck of cards are always around so I go to them when I should be doing coin magic. All of the things you said about coins are true with cards as well.
Go back to some of the classics, watch some of the great ones, break down the theory, and you just may find what you wrote in your post about coins is not true. Some of the most beautiful routines are done with coins. DR SAWA will make you feel differently, DR SAWA's coin magic, although very difficult will make you think, why did I ever write that post about coins. SAWA'A BANK is a classic, and it is one of the 5-6 coin routines I perform regularly. What a great piece of magic. Great presentation that is understood in the real world! Much more sense than the 5 of clubs jumping to the top of the deck 15 times.
EDIT: Honestly, I can't be bothered any more. Forget this post ever existed, I've got more important things to do -_-"
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Give me a break
Amazing!! More moronic replies that offer nothing more than a personal attack and an opinion that appears to full of contradictions!
IRISHFBFAN1 - I have more people wanting to see coin magic than card magic. I must admit, I do more card magic, routines that is - hmm, this makes it sounds like your card magic must suck then, because if people wanted to see more coins...why wouldn't you do more coin? OR...you are so inexperienced in coin work, that your opinion on this topic is moot. Which is it?
Seriously, I BEG you to send me a presentation you use or post it if you have the stones, so we can see how you "connect" with your coin magic. I am not saying it is not impossible, but MANY guys don't do it. Most of coin magic presentations are full of fluff, are confusing, don't connect, are just filler, etc. Most of Roth's stuff doesnt' connect - and most of the stuff that does can't be used by workers - like the black hole - not a very practical effect for table workers, and not many of us have sit down shows or tables with close up pads on them.
Again Irish1 - you quote a Vernon line about the perception of work...what do you think that means? What do you think people are thinking about when they see coin magic? WOW it is gone - or Where is it? Believe me, I love coin magic, but it is a display of sleight of hand.
Scottbaird - As much as I don't want to start a coin vs card debate - coins have not reached the level many card effects have when it comes to standards of deceptions - or NOT looking like moves. There are self working card effects, that can be done with normal decks - there are GREAT effects with sleights, that LOOK moveless when done well - even under NO misdirection - however, you can't say either about coins. The concept of perception, is what they THINK you did, rather than the reality of what you actually did....if you thought long and hard about it you would see that coins look like moves, not magic. This is one of the problems. Although, Scott - I do agree about the problems with much of the card work on this forum/site. However, this doesnt' represent the best of card magic...
I AM very experienced with coin work, and those around me are even MORESO, so think about it before you type another generic response of "you are wrong, because I said so with my limited knowledge" and try to address the issues - that do exists...don't believe me? Ask Roth.
So - I am throwing down a challenge - does anyone have the sack to back up what they say. Show me where coin magic doesn't look like moves...or show me a presentation that connects - PLEASE - share it with us - because right now...I am just READING FILLER! OPINIONS!!
There are as many of those as a-holes on this site - oh and speaking of that - guys...if you took the time to listen to praetoritevong you would have learnt something. He knows more than you, is a thinker, a talent...really, all the things that makes you ooze and spend your money on magic that makes you the lesser. Smarten up.
Amazing!! More moronic replies that offer nothing more than a personal attack and an opinion that appears to full of contradictions!
IRISHFBFAN1 - I have more people wanting to see coin magic than card magic. I must admit, I do more card magic, routines that is - hmm, this makes it sounds like your card magic must suck then, because if people wanted to see more coins...why wouldn't you do more coin? OR...you are so inexperienced in coin work, that your opinion on this topic is moot. Which is it?
Seriously, I BEG you to send me a presentation you use or post it if you have the stones, so we can see how you "connect" with your coin magic. I am not saying it is not impossible, but MANY guys don't do it. Most of coin magic presentations are full of fluff, are confusing, don't connect, are just filler, etc. Most of Roth's stuff doesnt' connect - and most of the stuff that does can't be used by workers - like the black hole - not a very practical effect for table workers, and not many of us have sit down shows or tables with close up pads on them.
Again Irish1 - you quote a Vernon line about the perception of work...what do you think that means? What do you think people are thinking about when they see coin magic? WOW it is gone - or Where is it? Believe me, I love coin magic, but it is a display of sleight of hand.
Scottbaird - As much as I don't want to start a coin vs card debate - coins have not reached the level many card effects have when it comes to standards of deceptions - or NOT looking like moves. There are self working card effects, that can be done with normal decks - there are GREAT effects with sleights, that LOOK moveless when done well - even under NO misdirection - however, you can't say either about coins. The concept of perception, is what they THINK you did, rather than the reality of what you actually did....if you thought long and hard about it you would see that coins look like moves, not magic. This is one of the problems. Although, Scott - I do agree about the problems with much of the card work on this forum/site. However, this doesnt' represent the best of card magic...
I AM very experienced with coin work, and those around me are even MORESO, so think about it before you type another generic response of "you are wrong, because I said so with my limited knowledge" and try to address the issues - that do exists...don't believe me? Ask Roth.
So - I am throwing down a challenge - does anyone have the sack to back up what they say. Show me where coin magic doesn't look like moves...or show me a presentation that connects - PLEASE - share it with us - because right now...I am just READING FILLER! OPINIONS!!
There are as many of those as a-holes on this site - oh and speaking of that - guys...if you took the time to listen to praetoritevong you would have learnt something. He knows more than you, is a thinker, a talent...really, all the things that makes you ooze and spend your money on magic that makes you the lesser. Smarten up.
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