Legal Questions

[jmstrings]

If I want to basically reproduce a book in video format, what kind of legal challenges would I be facing?

For example, if I wanted to take "Expert At The Card Table" or "Card College" and create an instructional DVD teaching material in either of the books, what kind of precautions would I have to take?

 

[KieranMackrell]

I would imagine that to do that is an almost impossible procedure to do, The publisher and author own the rights to the content, so I presume you would have to get authorization from them. Then they would have to preapprove the DVD before you release it, to ensure the material has been done justice. THEN, even if you managed to get as far as selling it, I am sure they would want a significant cut of the profits, as you are technically just recycling their ideas onto a new format. My reccommendation would be instead to produce a DVD detailing your own sleights and routines.

 

[cm763]

Legally, you're fine. The sleights and effects are not copyrighted, or anything like that. As long as you don't treat the book as a word-for-word script, there's nothing to worry about legally.

Ethically, the author (if still alive) may take offense you to releasing their book in video format. Along those lines, whether alive or dead, the magic community as a whole may look down on such a thing (keyword: may). It's a gamble, that's for sure.

 

[phrozunsun]

Well, Erdnase is out of copyright - it's expired. So that is basically a go, no legal issues. Royal road, I'm not sure. Chances are the name is at least trademarked, but as mentioned, the moves cannot be.

Ethically, doing erdnase, I don't see an issue. They're the most basic (not easy, but the basis) sleights - essentially like breathing. Royal road has routines in it, so if it's legal to do, you should still credit it.

 

[tokyoUW]

how can I get rich quick without creating anything? any legal issues there?

 

[Ozzyschach]

Go sell drugs.
You don't go into the Art unless you do it for yourself and your people.
"If you are an artist, and you want to be famous, or rich, or even the best, you aren't going to go far. If you do it for yourself, whatever you do, you write, you draw, have fun with it and get better. Then you will find your peace." - Alan Moore.
I draw, and I preform, if you get good then you'll make good money.
There is no quick money in art.

 

[phrozunsun]

how can I get rich quick without creating anything? any legal issues there?

Go sell drugs.
You don't go into the Art unless you do it for yourself and your people.
"If you are an artist, and you want to be famous, or rich, or even the best, you aren't going to go far. If you do it for yourself, whatever you do, you write, you draw, have fun with it and get better. Then you will find your peace." - Alan Moore.
I draw, and I preform, if you get good then you'll make good money.
There is no quick money in art.

wow. that's quite cynical.

I mean, maybe, just maybe, he wants to actually contribute to the community.

We live in a pretty litigious society, so I don't blame him for asking the questions he did. I know that I wouldn't want to work on a project for months, slaving over finding funding, equiptment, filming, editing, etc, all to have it tied up in a legal battle.

If you're going to attack the idea, great. But don't attack the person.

 

[Ozzyschach]

No.
It's not the same poster.
He randomly came in posting in a way to make quick money.
He wasn't even talking about legal issues.
It's not the same poster dude.

 

[Ozzyschach]

PS
He said he wasn't going to create anything, so he wasn't going to contribute anything.
He wants a charity in art.

 

[phrozunsun]

@ OS, I think Toyko was poking fun at the original poster with some passive agressive mockery.

 

[Ozzyschach]

Well then it wasn't needed.
The original poster was trying to re-produce a great book(s) without harming himself.
I mean I wouldn't mind a visual copy of any of the books that were suggested.
Either way I see him wrong.

 

[phrozunsun]

Well then it wasn't needed.
The original poster was trying to re-produce a great book(s) without harming himself.
I mean I wouldn't mind a visual copy of any of the books that were suggested.
Either way I see him wrong.

agreed.

Originally, I thought you caught on to Tokyo's comment and were helping him at getting the torches ready, but now it's clear your comment was ABOUT Tokyo and not attacking the OP. Cool.

 

[Ozzyschach]

Am I slow or what?
But this was a good idea, I'd like to see an instructional video of these books, sometimes you have to see it to get it.

 

[Dizzi]

there is already a DVD on royal road (I think it's royal road) by R. Paul Wilson

 

[phrozunsun]

there is already a DVD on royal road (I think it's royal road) by R. Paul Wilson

There's also at least one (rather thorough) Erdnase DVD out there by Wesley James, likely many more...

still though, a new take on it wouldn't kill anyone....

I know when I watched Art of Magic, I took some of the effects and saw the potential in them, changed them a bit and made them incredible. I lent the DVD to a friend, and completely by accident, he took almost the exact opposite effects (the ones I essentially discarded as not being my style), saw the potential in them and took them further in another direction that I could never even imagine (and of course was uninterested in the rest). I was impressed with his results, as was he with mine.

We totally missed the opportunity in the effects we dismissed from that set, but were glad we watched the DVD seperately, because now we have different perceptions of the effects we originally dismissed.

I'm sure the same could be said on an even higher level about those more expansive volumes. There's so much that probably goes unused by people that read through them.

 

[jmstrings]

All I can say to anyone that objects to my idea of transferring the knowledge contained in a book to a DVD, is that by objecting to my idea, you are also objecting to the further advancement and evolution of magic.

If Dai Vernon had a DVD of all his sleights to learn from when he was 16 years old, how much more creative and revolutionary could he have been?


Magicians say they want the art to evolve and for the new generation to take the art to new depths.

Well, since technology evolved and it is efficient to use current technology.....
You can't object to the idea of books being translated into DVDs. Books cannot record ideas as well as a video can.

End of story. I'm very opinionated on this. If anyone objects, then they are automatically by logic and sound reasoning preventing magic from being taken to new depths, which would hurt the advancement of the art.

 

[phrozunsun]

All I can say to anyone that objects to my idea of transferring the knowledge contained in a book to a DVD, is that by objecting to my idea, you are also objecting to the further advancement and evolution of magic.

If Dai Vernon had a DVD of all his sleights to learn from when he was 16 years old, how much more creative and revolutionary could he have been?


Magicians say they want the art to evolve and for the new generation to take the art to new depths.

Well, since technology evolved and it is efficient to use current technology.....
You can't object to the idea of books being translated into DVDs. Books cannot record ideas as well as a video can.

End of story. I'm very opinionated on this. If anyone objects, then they are automatically by logic and sound reasoning preventing magic from being taken to new depths, which would hurt the advancement of the art.

I don't think anyone ever disagrees with a change in medium.

If you listen to the underlying argument that most people make against DVDs, it's usually because the person who does it does a poor job or because you can tell they're just doing it for the money, not to advance our craft. You'll also find that's the argument against a lot of newer illusions in general, EVEN IF they are books.

Not to say that people aren't quick to erroneously prejudge. Remember, I was the first to stick up for you in this thread. Just know that a lot people people put out complete crap, so you need to shine that much harder to overcome the prejudice.

 

[jmstrings]

I don't think anyone ever disagrees with a change in medium.

If you listen to the underlying argument that most people make against DVDs, it's usually because the person who does it does a poor job or because you can tell they're just doing it for the money, not to advance our craft. You'll also find that's the argument against a lot of newer illusions in general, EVEN IF they are books.

Not to say that people aren't quick to erroneously prejudge. Remember, I was the first to stick up for you in this thread. Just know that a lot people people put out complete crap, so you need to shine that much harder to overcome the prejudice.

I hear you and I agree. If people want to put out crap DVD's, that's their issue. People won't buy crap products anyways.

If and when I do put out a product, it will be exactly as I described. The book in a DVD format, which means the DVD must be not only teach as efficiently as the book, but has to teach even better because we are now working with recent technology. If one was to not utilize that technology by putting together a crap DVD, they would be nothing nothing but cashing in on someone else's work. If the book can accomplish everything the DVD can, then there was no point in making the DVD.