Advanced Use of Classic Trick Decks

[quinnhughes]

Hey Everybody!

I have had an idea for a while. I used to use trick decks as a kid (Svengali, Stripper) and I thought I was such a G. Looking back, I bet you I only fooled half of the people I performed for because my decks were bridge sized with a different back design. Since then, I have focused on sleights with a standard 52.

But recently, I started working with a deck switching gimmick that works for me. I think I could use it to perform a few tricks with a normal deck of bikes, have people inspect the cards halfway through, then wring in a trick deck and continue the magic. That being said, do you all think that it is worth it for me to look into getting a Bicycle trick deck (Invisible, Svengali, Stripper, Brainwave, Mental Photo and/or Mirage) to use in conjunction with the deck switching gimmick.

Also, if you think a trick deck is worth purchasing, which of the ones listed would you recommend? Are there other decks that you would recommend?

Thirdly, if I buy a trick deck, do you think it is wise (like with normal decks) to purchase more than one to replace them as they get dirty?

Lastly, of the decks listed, some of them don't end up looking normal, meaning you change the way they look. The Mental Photography deck ends up looking completely blank. In that case, I would wring in a normal, matching double-sided blank deck to hand out for examination. The invisible deck could be switched for a normal deck and I could hold out the named card. These are just some ideas and ways to end clean.

Finally, a last note. Keep in mind, I am experienced with card sleights (not a master, but a solid few years of experience) and can do an ambitious card without a Svengali and control cards without a Stripper deck, but I want to keep my mind open to new and old ideas as sometimes, as you know, trick decks open up previously closed doors.

Thanks for reading this long-ish post.

~ Quinn

 

[Mr.Book]

If you think you have a good idea, go for it. Practice switching in a stacked deck before buying a gimmicked one, to see if your ideas play. I don't use gimmicked decks, so I can't recommend one.

Book

 

[quinnhughes]

If you think you have a good idea, go for it. Practice switching in a stacked deck before buying a gimmicked one, to see if your ideas play. I don't use gimmicked decks, so I can't recommend one.

Book

Good point. I really should try switching a deck in a performance.

 

[MarcoLostSomething]

A deck switching device it's usually tricky to handle without goofy moves, cause loading 52 cards is heavy.. But i don't know how you do it, so i assume you have found a clever method to do so. That is a great idea to pull in, or pull out a trick deck. Keep it up with ideas!
That being said:
Mental photography, invisible and brainwave are grouped as the same category (in my mind), and they can make a good impact on people. They allow you to perform effects otherwise impossible with almost no efforts.
Svengali, Mirage (another group of mine) yes, they are fine, but they kind of lack of flavour.
Essentially, i am sure you can do better with a regular deck.
Stripper... like.. what do you do with a stripper? maybe a gambling demonstration with people suffling the deck, but... again, there's plenty of card controls or demonstrations with normal decks.

To sum up: i noted that you're not a beginner, so buying trick decks that simplify the pattern (svengali, mirage, stripper) makes no sense.
On the other hand you can broaden your repertoire including an impossible looking trick, i'd say the invisible deck.
The invisible deck makes you say "THINK of a card", so you differ from the "PICK a card" plot, (which you have plenty of time to perform), and you can build your own story. You can even come up with a 5 minute long presentation, cause actually you have nothing else to do, really.

Is it essential? no. But if you want to include one, well, there's a reason to do so.
note that also the other two are fine, but i like the invisible deck plot, cause it involves the spectator more, you pick your favourite of course.

Last point, make it a opener, than switch it and go on with a regular one.
You can do it as a closer, but in my personal taste i find unnatural to make a deck examined before..
It's either suspicious or just overprooving something not needed.
But You can do it anyway, just minor details.
The important is the uniformity of action, and act consequentially

PS: it's a long post as well, hope it helps!

 

[quinnhughes]

A deck switching device it's usually tricky to handle without goofy moves, cause loading 52 cards is heavy.. But i don't know how you do it, so i assume you have found a clever method to do so. That is a great idea to pull in, or pull out a trick deck. Keep it up with ideas!
That being said:
Mental photography, invisible and brainwave are grouped as the same category (in my mind), and they can make a good impact on people. They allow you to perform effects otherwise impossible with almost no efforts.
Svengali, Mirage (another group of mine) yes, they are fine, but they kind of lack of flavour.
Essentially, i am sure you can do better with a regular deck.
Stripper... like.. what do you do with a stripper? maybe a gambling demonstration with people suffling the deck, but... again, there's plenty of card controls or demonstrations with normal decks.

To sum up: i noted that you're not a beginner, so buying trick decks that simplify the pattern (svengali, mirage, stripper) makes no sense.
On the other hand you can broaden your repertoire including an impossible looking trick, i'd say the invisible deck.
The invisible deck makes you say "THINK of a card", so you differ from the "PICK a card" plot, (which you have plenty of time to perform), and you can build your own story. You can even come up with a 5 minute long presentation, cause actually you have nothing else to do, really.

Is it essential? no. But if you want to include one, well, there's a reason to do so.
note that also the other two are fine, but i like the invisible deck plot, cause it involves the spectator more, you pick your favourite of course.

Last point, make it a opener, than switch it and go on with a regular one.
You can do it as a closer, but in my personal taste i find unnatural to make a deck examined before..
It's either suspicious or just overprooving something not needed.
But You can do it anyway, just minor details.
The important is the uniformity of action, and act consequentially

PS: it's a long post as well, hope it helps!

I agree with you're point about the Mirage and Svengali decks. I never thought they were showstoppers anyway. I actually read a forum about Svengalis and Strippers and the consensus was that the gimmick part of each deck was to substitute for sleight of hand.

That said, I actually have been set on buying an invisible deck for a while. I also really like the Mental Photo deck. It seems so cool. As for the Brainwave deck, I think I'll develop a non-gimmicked version, because that seems easier to execute than a deck switch.

With that in mind, do you think it is wise to buy more than one Invisible or Mental Photo deck? Like regular decks, gimmicks get dirty, and I'd like to know if other magicians replace their tricks decks like normal decks.

Also, I really like the idea of opening with a trick deck. Brilliant! I think opening with the Invisible deck and wringing in a normal deck to close the routine would be so smooth.

Thanks for the advise!

PS - The deck switch I'm using in Daniel Madison's Fracture.

 

[Mr.Book]

The invisible deck is a wonderful effect. However, I feel like it is at the point of being over played. YouTube is already saturated with it. You seem like you are trying to do fresh and new things, I like to see that kind of innovation. If you fall in love with a gimmicked deck absolutely purchase more than one, but remember, the coolest tricks eventually get burned on YouTube so don't buy too many of the same one.


Book

 

[Rev]

I've been into magic for 20 odd years. I'm pretty much purely a card guy and I am well versed in all kinds of well known (and more obscure) sleights and principles. I have a bookshelf full of books on sleight of hand card magic.

But I frickin' love Svengali decks.

I used to live about 30 seconds from a magic shop and would watch the owner demonstrate the Svengali Deck to (mostly) tourists every weekend. It really was a lesson in how powerful the deck can be.

To say that a Svengali Deck 'lacks flavour' or 'isn't a showstopper' is pretty meaningless as ultimately the Svengali Deck is just a prop. A regular deck is not a showstopper either, until you do something exciting with it. Neither is a sponge ball or a rubber band. Props are not showstoppers. Routines are.

Read up on all the material available. You'll be surprised how much you can do with a Svengali beyond the standard 'Oh look, now they're all the same'.

Exploring what makes the deck work means you can occasionally stumble across some interesting ideas. For example, did you know you can overhand shuffle a Svengali deck? Also, did you know that if you ask a spectator to cut a number of cards from the top of a Svengali deck, the number of cards they cut will always be even? I'm not sure what you would do with this particular bit of information, but the point is that it is something to be explored.

Plus, here's an anecdote I'm sure I've mentioned before: I once had a discussion with a younger magician who spent a couple of minutes telling me how he didn't like the Svengali deck anymore as you could 'Only do one trick it'. I nodded and half-agreed, before proceeding to fool the pants off of him with a trick using.....wait for it....a Svengali deck.

Whilst I agree that trick decks should not be used as a substitute for sleight of hand, I don't see why it has to be an 'either or situation'. Get out there and explore all avenues, you'll have fun doing it.

Rev

 

[quinnhughes]

The invisible deck is a wonderful effect. However, I feel like it is at the point of being over played. YouTube is already saturated with it. You seem like you are trying to do fresh and new things, I like to see that kind of innovation. If you fall in love with a gimmicked deck absolutely purchase more than one, but remember, the coolest tricks eventually get burned on YouTube so don't buy too many of the same one.


Book

Noted, good call.

 

[quinnhughes]

I've been into magic for 20 odd years. I'm pretty much purely a card guy and I am well versed in all kinds of well known (and more obscure) sleights and principles. I have a bookshelf full of books on sleight of hand card magic.

But I frickin' love Svengali decks.

I used to live about 30 seconds from a magic shop and would watch the owner demonstrate the Svengali Deck to (mostly) tourists every weekend. It really was a lesson in how powerful the deck can be.

To say that a Svengali Deck 'lacks flavour' or 'isn't a showstopper' is pretty meaningless as ultimately the Svengali Deck is just a prop. A regular deck is not a showstopper either, until you do something exciting with it. Neither is a sponge ball or a rubber band. Props are not showstoppers. Routines are.

Read up on all the material available. You'll be surprised how much you can do with a Svengali beyond the standard 'Oh look, now they're all the same'.

Exploring what makes the deck work means you can occasionally stumble across some interesting ideas. For example, did you know you can overhand shuffle a Svengali deck? Also, did you know that if you ask a spectator to cut a number of cards from the top of a Svengali deck, the number of cards they cut will always be even? I'm not sure what you would do with this particular bit of information, but the point is that it is something to be explored.

Plus, here's an anecdote I'm sure I've mentioned before: I once had a discussion with a younger magician who spent a couple of minutes telling me how he didn't like the Svengali deck anymore as you could 'Only do one trick it'. I nodded and half-agreed, before proceeding to fool the pants off of him with a trick using.....wait for it....a Svengali deck.

Whilst I agree that trick decks should not be used as a substitute for sleight of hand, I don't see why it has to be an 'either or situation'. Get out there and explore all avenues, you'll have fun doing it.

Rev

Thanks for the advise. That got me thinking about how I can use the deck in other ways.

I think the theme here is, "both, at the right time, if it fits you and your situation." I think I would use the Invisible deck regularly, and it fits my style. I think that the Svengali has potential, and I used it a lot. I mean a lot! In fact, I probably ruined it for my parents at age 11-12 because they always picked the same card. That said, I have tried to find ways or think of ways to use the Svengali deck in a killer way, but can't come up with anything. Can you point me in a direction of powerful uses for the Svengali deck? I would love to check some of that material out.

And I did more than the one trick that is associated with the deck (great story BTW with that kid). I would do ambitious cards, mentalism, impossible card locations, and a few gag tricks with gaff cards. There is no doubt in my mind that the deck is a good prop. It is easy for a newcomer and excellent for a seasoned pro, but I guess what I still wonder is, with the skills that I have now to do ambitious cards, mentalism, impossible card locations, why get the Svengali? I ask this because I actually want to be able to use the deck in a powerful way and not because I want to bash the prop itself.

Once again, I appreciate your advise and hope to hear from you soon!

~ Quinn

 

[MarcoLostSomething]

The invisible differs from the MP from one particular detail: the first involves the audience, the second one doesn't.
I said i prefer the invisible cause you perform something, if you like a displayed effect you can do a packet trick that need no switch at all, you can carry a packet with the card needed to do whatever gaff or ungaffed effect you desire.
That's an operative definition, but if you like the MP deck so much, you can use it as a closure to shows that the deck as been white cause you imagine the cards blabla do your stuff, put the deck into a box, greet everyone and leave, that's a good closure if you enfatize enough.

For the reasons explained at the begininning i prefer the invisible as it gets into the action with the public as a opener start, and what a start!

 

[quinnhughes]

The invisible differs from the MP from one particular detail: the first involves the audience, the second one doesn't.
I said i prefer the invisible cause you perform something, if you like a displayed effect you can do a packet trick that need no switch at all, you can carry a packet with the card needed to do whatever gaff or ungaffed effect you desire.
That's an operative definition, but if you like the MP deck so much, you can use it as a closure to shows that the deck as been white cause you imagine the cards blabla do your stuff, put the deck into a box, greet everyone and leave, that's a good closure if you enfatize enough.

For the reasons explained at the begininning i prefer the invisible as it gets into the action with the public as a opener start, and what a start!

You know, I looked up another performance of the MP deck and thought, "Well, that looked better when I first saw grainy webcam footage." I think the appeal was the ability to "print" a deck from blank cards. I guess this whole thread has just eliminated the use of 4 out of the 6 initial choices. Invisible deck, here I come. But I'm still open to new ideas.

 

[MarcoLostSomething]

I drank a bit yesterday night, so my post wasn't that great..
Anyway, what i meant is that the MP is an effect that kind of stands on itself, you show something and the audience just watch.
Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful effect, (watch Daryl's performance), but it lacks potential versus an invisible.

I'd like to mention the final though that came to mind this morning while thinking about life and the universe...
Man, we are enough into magic to start doing things on our own. If you can't decide, get the spray and some decks, make anything you want, brainwave, invisible.
Buy a blank deck for 2 MP deck, a forcing deck to make a svengali..
Also the stripper, i know you're not precise as a machine cutter, but regardless...
possibilities are endless, you can gaff yourself if you know the art.

Maybe you can come up with your own ideas, and gaff a personalized deck!

 

[Rev]

I drank a bit yesterday night, so my post wasn't that great..
Anyway, what i meant is that the MP is an effect that kind of stands on itself, you show something and the audience just watch.
Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful effect, (watch Daryl's performance), but it lacks potential versus an invisible.

I'd say the Invisible Deck is just as much a one trick pony as the MP Deck. If anything I'd say it's much more limited than either a Svengali or Stripper. A Stripper Deck simply allows you to control cards to be used in whatever way you want whilst a Svengali is essentially just a forcing tool, again meaning it can be used for any trick requiring a very clean force. The ID pretty much only has one effect, though obviously how you present it can vary.

I'd like to mention the final though that came to mind this morning while thinking about life and the universe...
Man, we are enough into magic to start doing things on our own. If you can't decide, get the spray and some decks, make anything you want, brainwave, invisible.
Buy a blank deck for 2 MP deck, a forcing deck to make a svengali..
Also the stripper, i know you're not precise as a machine cutter, but regardless...
possibilities are endless, you can gaff yourself if you know the art.

Maybe you can come up with your own ideas, and gaff a personalized deck!

Yes, love this! Big Thumbs Up! The problem with magic these days is that there is a real culture of 'consumerism' thanks to big stores like Penguin etc. I'm not saying that having magic stores is a bad thing because we all need access to learning materials, and I've never met anyone who has the tools to make three own thumb tips! But things like standard gaffed decks and, to some extent, double facers/backers etc can all be made at home if you have the know how. I guess the problem is most people would rather just pay someone else to do it than put the effort in themselves. That's a shame as being able to make your own props is certainly going to open up possibilities for you. Guys like Tommy Wonder used to study wood working techniques in order to craft things like mystery card boxes, yet these days most people can't even be bothered to rough a deck themselves.

Thanks for the advise. That got me thinking about how I can use the deck in other ways.

I think the theme here is, "both, at the right time, if it fits you and your situation." I think I would use the Invisible deck regularly, and it fits my style. I think that the Svengali has potential, and I used it a lot. I mean a lot! In fact, I probably ruined it for my parents at age 11-12 because they always picked the same card. That said, I have tried to find ways or think of ways to use the Svengali deck in a killer way, but can't come up with anything. Can you point me in a direction of powerful uses for the Svengali deck? I would love to check some of that material out.

Good Sources for Svengali Ideas:

Svengali - Oz Pearlman: This is available as a download from Penguin. Oz Has some lovely ideas and touches on this DVD and the fact that it features actually live performances for lay people really shows how, in the hands of a professional, the deck can be much more than just a 'beginners prop'

Essentials in Magic Svengali Deck - Daryl: It's Daryl....need I say more? Some great ideas on here including a couple which allow the deck to be examined at the end. It's worth mentioning that the whole Essentials In Magic collections is great value for money. There are also DVDs on sponge balls, Stripper Deck, ID and Mental Photography deck available. The MP Deck DVD contains a particularly nice routine in which all the faces vanish and reappear on the face of a single card. Very entertaining for lay people.

The Best 200 Tricks With A Svengali Deck - Jim McKeague: This one is pretty old school, but is now available as an ebook HERE. Plus, you get 200 ideas for only $10...how's that for a bargain!

And I did more than the one trick that is associated with the deck (great story BTW with that kid). I would do ambitious cards, mentalism, impossible card locations, and a few gag tricks with gaff cards. There is no doubt in my mind that the deck is a good prop. It is easy for a newcomer and excellent for a seasoned pro, but I guess what I still wonder is, with the skills that I have now to do ambitious cards, mentalism, impossible card locations, why get the Svengali? I ask this because I actually want to be able to use the deck in a powerful way and not because I want to bash the prop itself.

Once again, I appreciate your advise and hope to hear from you soon!

~ Quinn

I think you're going about this the wrong way. Yes, there is probably no point in you using a Svengali to do an ACR as you can probably do a much more impressive one using sleight of hand and a signed card. But you're trying to make the prop fit effects you already do using sleight of hand.

Instead, try thinking of new effect that you couldn't do using just standard sleights. I was going to save the following for a blog I am currently setting up but I see no harm in giving a basic outline here. I would go into a detailed handling as you know how the Svengali works.

_______SPECTATOR'S CARD STAB_______​

Make sure you have a Joker in your Svengali Deck. Remove the deck from the box, shuffle and show as well mixed (thereby also showing they are all different, no need to mention it!). Run through the deck with the faces towards you and remove the Joker, tossing face up on the table. Have a card 'freely' chosen and lost back into the deck. Give a few more shuffles.

Ask the spectator to pick up the Joker and hold it face up. Tell them you are going to dribble the cards face down to the table and at any point they like they should throw the Joker into the deck. They do so and you will be left with a slightly messy face-down pile with a face-up Joker sticking out of it.

Without picking up the deck, spread it across the table and, using you fingertips, slide out the face-up Joker and the face-down card immediately below it. You then show that had the Joker landed one card higher or one card lower they would have got different cards. Ask the spectator to turn over the card under the Joker. It will be the selection.

___________________________________​

I'm sure that is probably enough for you to understand how the effect works. Could you do roughly the same effect using a normal deck? Of course, I have a method myself on my YouTube channel, but it's no where near as clean and definitely not as easy. I still prefer to use the Svengali version when I can. Feel free to use this if you want, it really does slay people. Hopefully it will help you understand the power and potential of the Svengali!

Rev

PS: The above effect is the one I used to fool 'the kid' in my local magic shop. He begged for weeks for me to show him how it was done....needless to say he was not impressed when I caved and told him!

 

[RealityOne]

Go buy a copy of Encyclopedia of Card Tricks . It has sections on Stripper Decks, Svengali Decks and rough and smooth (see slick cards and diachlyon (the predecessor of roughing fluid) as well as Mene-Tekel decks, double backers, double facers, short cards, etc.

There are some great effects using those decks. There was an effect in October 2009 editiion of Genii which was a 32 page issue of the Jinx created by Harry Anderson. I also love Andy Nyman's effect in the April 2009 edition of Genii using a Mirage decks.

Also, as an aside, a Svengali deck can be riffle shuffled without disturbing the order. You also can use it for an SCAAN routine with the selected card appearing either as the card dealt at that number of the card at the top of the deck. Try using a Stripper deck by mixing the red cards and the black cards together so they are reversed. After performing a couple of effects using sleight of hand, shuffle and then strip out the red cards and put them on top for an Out of this World routine. Similarly, with a stripper deck you can cleanly control multiple selected and returned cards to be produced from the "middle" of the deck (e.g. Benzais Spin Out).

Yes, love this! Big Thumbs Up! The problem with magic these days is that there is a real culture of 'consumerism' thanks to big stores like Penguin etc. I'm not saying that having magic stores is a bad thing because we all need access to learning materials, and I've never met anyone who has the tools to make three own thumb tips! But things like standard gaffed decks and, to some extent, double facers/backers etc can all be made at home if you have the know how. I guess the problem is most people would rather just pay someone else to do it than put the effort in themselves. That's a shame as being able to make your own props is certainly going to open up possibilities for you. Guys like Tommy Wonder used to study wood working techniques in order to craft things like mystery card boxes, yet these days most people can't even be bothered to rough a deck themselves.

Completely agree. I've made my own invisible decks, brainwave decks, Jumbo McCombical Deck and Khardova decks. Just got a paper cutter and corner rounder and started making my own short cards. Doing some research on corner shorts. Will probably make some homemade stripper decks with rounded corners. I really want one of these Stripper Jigs. I'm contemplating learning to sew, so that I can make custom change bags (I have a bunch of routines using a 5 x 7 change bag).

 

[obrienmagic]

I perform a "Do as I do" type effect with an invisible deck.

I also use a deck switching gimmick to do this (so perhaps you can find away to work yours in?)

PM me if you would like me to send you the instructions

 

[EndersGame]

Good Sources for Svengali Ideas:

Svengali - Oz Pearlman: This is available as a download from Penguin. Oz Has some lovely ideas and touches on this DVD and the fact that it features actually live performances for lay people really shows how, in the hands of a professional, the deck can be much more than just a 'beginners prop'

Essentials in Magic Svengali Deck - Daryl: It's Daryl....need I say more? Some great ideas on here including a couple which allow the deck to be examined at the end. It's worth mentioning that the whole Essentials In Magic collections is great value for money. There are also DVDs on sponge balls, Stripper Deck, ID and Mental Photography deck available. The MP Deck DVD contains a particularly nice routine in which all the faces vanish and reappear on the face of a single card. Very entertaining for lay people.

This is very helpful! If you were to recommend just one of these, which is best the Daryl DVD or the Oz Pearlman DVD?

 

[DominusDolorum]

This is very helpful! If you were to recommend just one of these, which is best the Daryl DVD or the Oz Pearlman DVD?

No thread bumping, please. Feel free to start a new thread if you like Thanks!