Books really necessary?

[Mem]

Im having trouble reading card books. I just finished paul harris art of astonishment vol.1and saw a good tricks. The problem is i dont get the explanation on the moves i should do. (dont know if there are other books that are more clear on explaining the tricks). I really dont have time to read books at all cause im a graduating student Im happy i learn an impromptu acaan by reading. But after finish a book and not able to learn a single tricks is annoying. my visualizing skills when reading doesnt really work.

I know there are a lot of good tricks in books. And i will miss a lot of good tricks if i dont read them. But do i really need to read them? Im more invested on dvd for tricks because i can whats happening.

*but when reading card college for sleights to learn. I did not find it hard to visualize it at all. Dont know why.

Sorry for the long post

 

[Mem]

If there are books of tricks that has very clear explanation on it. Plss suggest it to me.

 

[Mem]

I know there are a lot of good tricks in books. And i will miss a lot of good tricks if i dont read them. But do i really need to read?

What i trying to say is. I think there are tricks that has been updated to more modern version.and some of them i can learn from dvds or from newer books. Instead of reading the classics.( cause im really having trouble reading classic books. Lucky that royal road to card magic has a dvd version.)

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

It really depends on your goals. Rich Ferguson is a professional who's read almost no magic books (I think he says he's read one).

You can learn to be a very good magician without ever reading books. If you're creative enough, you could figure all this stuff out without even watching DVDs or videos - just by working with props and seeing what you can do with them. That's how all of this got to where it is now.

But I will also say this - if you are someone who focuses on video, then you are going to spend more money for less material than if you take the time to learn to learn from books.

And on the other hand, there's a decent chance you already have plenty of material or at least the foundation for plenty of material already.

 

[RealityOne]

@Mem

I think I understand what you are saying. Art of Astonishment presumes you know the moves and the explanations aren't that good. To be honest AoA and even the True Astonishment DVDs (10% of the effects and twice the cost) don't teach the moves very well. As a result, I have the full Card College set and learn the moves from there. Even with books by John Bannon or John Gustaferro, I go to Card College to learn the sleights.

Reading magic books is different than reading other books. It really is a unique skill because it involves sequential memory (knowing the steps), imagination (taking the words and turning it into actions), problem solving (figuring out why the move doesn't work the way you imagined it) and muscle memory (learning the actions so they become natural).

When I read magic books, I read paying attention to plots and methods. I file that stuff in my memory for future reference.

If I like a plot or a method, then I go back and read to learn the effect. When I'm reading to learn, I first read through without a deck, visualizing what happens and HOW it happens. Don't skip this step. It is important. Then I read through with a deck in hand doing each move slowly. Then I practice the moves until I can peform them satisfactorily. Then I reread the effect to make sure I'm doing it right. Again, don't skip this step because you are reading something and understanding it based on what you already know. It is sort of like reading a passage on a standardized test AFTER you have read the questions they are asking. Then continue to practice and rehearse.

Feel free to post a thread on effects in AoA Volume 1. Sometimes all it takes to spark interest is to see what other people like about. Also, feel free to reach out to me via PM if you are having any problems with the required sleights. I'd be glad to help.

 

[Josh Burch]

@Mem Reading magic books is different than reading other books. It really is a unique skill because it involves sequential memory (knowing the steps), imagination (taking the words and turning it into actions), problem solving (figuring out why the move doesn't work the way you imagined it) and muscle memory (learning the actions so they become natural).

This is the key. It takes A TON of concentration to read a magic book. I try to go extra slow and follow along with the props in my hands.

These days when things get really tough you can reference You Tube for some of the really classical stuff or purchase a download on Theory11 or Art of Magic. I've been there, it can be very difficult to learn good sleight of hand, at first it feels like it is impossible but with time it gets really easy.

Slow deliberate practice plus time equals skill.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Slow deliberate practice plus time equals skill

Kung Fu.

I think the fact that books make you slow down and imagine doing something before you can even start working with it is a major advantage.

 

[ProAma]

Yeah but you need to actually go out and perform to have skill. Practicing in your room or something and mastering it doesn't mean you will do well actually using it in performance.

 

[Mem]

This is the key. It takes A TON of concentration to read a magic book. I try to go extra slow and follow along with the props in my hands.

These days when things get really tough you can reference You Tube for some of the really classical stuff or purchase a download on Theory11 or Art of Magic. I've been there, it can be very difficult to learn good sleight of hand, at first it feels like it is impossible but with time it gets really easy.

Slow deliberate practice plus time equals skill.

I take it slow when reading it. And if there a sleight i dont get i just read my card college. But sometimes in AOA it doesnt tell what is the name of the move.

 

[Mem]

@Mem

I think I understand what you are saying. Art of Astonishment presumes you know the moves and the explanations aren't that good. To be honest AoA and even the True Astonishment DVDs (10% of the effects and twice the cost) don't teach the moves very well. As a result, I have the full Card College set and learn the moves from there. Even with books by John Bannon or John Gustaferro, I go to Card College to learn the sleights.

Reading magic books is different than reading other books. It really is a unique skill because it involves sequential memory (knowing the steps), imagination (taking the words and turning it into actions), problem solving (figuring out why the move doesn't work the way you imagined it) and muscle memory (learning the actions so they become natural).

When I read magic books, I read paying attention to plots and methods. I file that stuff in my memory for future reference.

If I like a plot or a method, then I go back and read to learn the effect. When I'm reading to learn, I first read through without a deck, visualizing what happens and HOW it happens. Don't skip this step. It is important. Then I read through with a deck in hand doing each move slowly. Then I practice the moves until I can peform them satisfactorily. Then I reread the effect to make sure I'm doing it right. Again, don't skip this step because you are reading something and understanding it based on what you already know. It is sort of like reading a passage on a standardized test AFTER you have read the questions they are asking. Then continue to practice and rehearse.

Feel free to post a thread on effects in AoA Volume 1. Sometimes all it takes to spark interest is to see what other people like about. Also, feel free to reach out to me via PM if you are having any problems with the required sleights. I'd be glad to help.

Thanks sir. Thats what i also do. I just look into card college when i dont know the move. Yeah i will reread the aoa and pm you about i. Thanks.

 

[Josh Burch]

Thanks sir. Thats what i also do. I just look into card college when i dont know the move. Yeah i will reread the aoa and pm you about i. Thanks.

I wouldn't even start to try to learn the piece till you really understand the effect (what happens in the eyes of the audience). David points this out but I wanted to underline how important it is.

 

[TylerScottIllusionist]

Necessary? No. Recommended? Yes.

I think you get more bang for your buck by reading books over DVDs. On paper that would financially be the wisest decision. Pragmatically it's a lot harder to learn from books than DVDs speaking for myself. I'll often try to go to YouTube and see if anyone has performed any of the effects mentioned in the books so I can get an idea of what I'm supposed to be doing.

 

[RealityOne]

Yeah but you need to actually go out and perform to have skill. Practicing in your room or something and mastering it doesn't mean you will do well actually using it in performance.

Yes and no. Either extreme isn't a good option. Performing without sufficient practice of technical skils and sufficient rehersal of presentation is asking for a disaster. Practicing and rehearsing without performing doesn't allow you to learn performance skills such as audience management, audience interaction, misdirection and relaxation which can only be learned by doing.

 

[kolebear]

Yeah but you need to actually go out and perform to have skill. Practicing in your room or something and mastering it doesn't mean you will do well actually using it in performance.

I agree with RealityOne. If you do not master the move, people may catch you. Start with friends and family, then on the streets, then at gigs. But do not spend so much time practicing and too little time performing, or too little time practicing and too much time performing. But I do not agree with GrantC with going almost immediately onto the streets without practicing.

 

[ProAma]

I agree with RealityOne. If you do not master the move, people may catch you. Start with friends and family, then on the streets, then at gigs. But do not spend so much time practicing and too little time performing, or too little time practicing and too much time performing. But I do not agree with GrantC with going almost immediately onto the streets without practicing.

I never said to go out immediately if you can read

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

It's a delicate balance. One can easily become trapped by the idea of having to be 'perfect' before going out to perform, and therefore never actually perform. One can also easily go out too early, before they are ready, and crash and burn. It's something each person has to figure out for themselves.

Personally, I work with the model of becoming proficient with the physical moves, rehearsing the script until I am able to say it without having to think about it at all, and then road testing it and making adjustments, and repeating the process.

I will say, though, that most of my work cannot be properly practiced alone. There's almost no sleights, and everything involves other people and how they react.

 

[RickEverhart]

Another option I highly suggest is finding a mentor/teacher in your local area. This quickly decreases the amount of learning time you would put in reading through books if you are unhappy with your results/time/effort being placed upon literature. I thrive with a hands-on approach with learning "new" material. Everyone has a different preference for learning.

See if there is a local ring near your hometown. This is how I met my mentor. Typically there will be jam sessions after meetings or even on weekends.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Everyone has a different preference for learning.

This is very important to remember. If you try to learn outside your personal, most effective way of learning, you won't progress as well as you could.

My wife and I are opposites in this regard. She always wants a teacher to show her how to do the thing, and if she absolutely has to, she'll figure it out herself. I always want to figure it out myself, and if I absolutely have to, I'll find a teacher to show me. So I don't dig mentors, personally, I just read books and get hands on and figure it out.

 

[RealityOne]

Another option I highly suggest is finding a mentor/teacher in your local area.

You're BAAAAAACK! Long time no see my friend. I hope all is well with you and your family. We have to catch up.

See if there is a local ring near your hometown. This is how I met my mentor. Typically there will be jam sessions after meetings or even on weekends.

I'm actually thinking about joining a SAM Ring near Philadelphia -- If I can find the time to make the trip out there for the meeints.

 

[RickEverhart]

Hi David,
We definitely need to catch up. Lots of life changes and challenges for me in the past few years which took precedence over magic. I'm just now finding my way back to the boards and hope to contribute when I can. I hope all is well with you as well my friend.