Bringing people to Atheism through the art of magic.

Sep 1, 2007
662
2
Of course magic is an art, and of course that art can be - should be - used for the purpose of entertainment.

However, as has been pointed out, there is the potential in any artform to express a point of view about the world and to get other people to think about that point of view. Now there is absolutely no way ever that I would start yakking off about my world view at a paid gig - it's not the time or the place. I would also never randomly approach someone to show them magic unless I was being paid for it. In fact, under no circumstances would I take it any further than entertainment...yet; because I don't know how to do so in a socially acceptable manner.

Take the effects that you can do with a marked deck. This is serious freakin' psychic mind-reading territory. I cannot bring myself to present it that way though! Because I don't want anyone, not even for a second, to believe that I may have done something...paranormal. In fact, I tend to stay away from that particular effect, because I am uncomfortable with the effect it has on some poeple. But presenting this effect in the way that OwnerM suggests has the opposite effect. By informing the audience that you are about to show them something that looks like mindreading, you get them thinking about other "supernatural" happenings that may be just another trick.

This example also illustrates how subtle this application of the artform can be. You don't need to say "what do you believe in? If I can do this, and this is just a trick, what about your beliefs?! Hey? Hey!?". Just leave them thinking. Jonraiker, I believe this addresses your concern about magic being used to "lead" people to a conclusion. A rational view of the universe isn't about "leading" anyway; it is about independant thought, open-mindedness and the willingness to question what others take on faith. Getting someone to think in that way about a subject is much easier than attempting to indoctrinate them into a specific set of ideas. Sure, there may be people out there who try and convince others that there is no God, but they strike me as being just as fanatically religious as the Jehova's Witness knocking on my door. I'm sure the Evangelists would protest that they can do their thing subtely; I submit with confidence that the rationalists can do their thing more subtely still.

And, of course, we should always remember that magic is supposed to be fun and entertaining first! I'd hate to turn into Mr. Serious Atheist Magician Man.
 
Aug 31, 2007
83
0
No need to jump to assumptions. You might be surprised. Although, I understand where it may come off a certain way through my posts.


Are you sure you'd like to delete your thread? I think all avenues should remain open for discussion. I see both threads containing very valuable information.

Let me know. Thanks Dave!

If you feel that the discussion will be beneficial and constructive then it should stay open.

I am sorry if I had jumped to any conclusions I was referencing what you had said earlier "I know if I was a Christian, Buddhist, etc". I see now that you are only attempting to maintain a mutual position(I assume).

Dave
 
Sep 1, 2007
662
2
Wow. I just re-read the middle paragraph of my last post.

The word "effect" appears in there a grand total of 5 times! I think I win the "ouch" award right here:

"I tend to stay away from that particular effect, because of the effect it has on some people. But presenting this effect in the way that OwnerM suggests has the opposite effect."

Gosh darn it, it's a bloody trick!

That is all.
 

jonraiker

vp of development
Team member
Aug 5, 2007
1,330
24
Florida
instagram.com
Guys,

Please don't think I pass off the art of magic as simply another form of slightly amusing entertainment. I value magic to the utmost degree, and hold many views, theories, philosophies, etc. pertaining to the art. It's my belief that magic is one of the most beautiful things one can witness in life, and it can undoubtedly be used to touch people in a way that nothing else can.

I was simply trying to keep the momentum going in this thread by throwing out my 2 regarding whether or not we should be pushing different beliefs on people through magic. In a way, I feel this cheapens what we're doing -- as described in my previous post. It reminds me of the pastor who goes out and buys a few novelty tricks at a magic shop to impress his congregation before conducting a sermon about how Satan deceives us. Presented in this manner, those effects are humorous at best. However, a performer like Derren Brown can take one of those same tricks -- let's say... the Cigarette through Quarter -- and present it in a way that truly affects his audience; that truly touches them.

Maybe it's how you present everything you're performing? Maybe there is, in fact, a way to properly combine personal beliefs and magic? I guess this could go off into how we present our magic, but we can always save that for another thread. ;)
 
Sep 1, 2007
662
2
I think it depends on how important your world-view is to who you are. It is a big part of who I am, even to the extent of affecting what I choose to put into my repertoire, simply because I don't know how to guide the more impressionable members of my audience away from thinking that I possess pyschic powers! Some magicians get a kick out of that; they should I guess, it shows they've done a good job. I find it disconcerting.

Perhaps when I find a comfortable way to present such tricks (Hah!) I will have found a way to express myself through the presentation of magic and achieved the aim of getting my audience to question their view of similar phenomena.

For magicians who don't have such a big focus on their personal viewpoint, I doubt that this will ever be an issue for them, and so probably it will never be a part of their performance.

I also think that education can be entertaining. Just look for example at the popularity of documentary programmes. Dealing with a new concept is invigorating for the mind, provided that it is presented in a user friendly manner. Pushing? I think not...certainly not as I am proposing.

Magic should be candy for the eyes, and entertainment for the mind.
 
Sep 1, 2007
662
2
Ironically enough, I have found in some cases the opposite to be true! For instance, in the marked deck trick I keep on going on about, you find the spectator's card and they find yours, under totally impossible conditions. I have found myself building up to the climactic relvelation that they have found my card only to have the spectator say "It was the Jack of Clubs wasn't it!" and turn it over.

[In case you aren't familiar with the trick in question, it is only really impressive if I name it without seeing what card they picked out as mine]

The people that do this are those that truely believe that something psychic has happened and in their heads, it is already done and dusted. They look satisfied, but not amazed. Those who are more skeptical though have a tendancy to erupt when the final revelation rolls around, because they know that it was impossible!

Now the people that reveal the climax early, the ones who believe something really did happen. There has to be room there to let them know that nothing paranormal really happened, that it was a trick that anyone can learn.
 
Aug 31, 2007
369
0
Hartford, CT
Now the people that reveal the climax early, the ones who believe something really did happen. There has to be room there to let them know that nothing paranormal really happened, that it was a trick that anyone can learn.

Exactly!

When the audience knows that you are open about the fact you know the paranormal does not exist, they are truely amazed (even though you get the "you have GOT to be psychic!" line).

I love to get people to question their beliefs, to challenge themselves. It leaves a impression.

One trick I do is Banachek's "Psychokinetic Touch". I tell the audience that there is a psychic connection between people in love (or married, or friends, etc). I tell them that this phenomeon is called "Partner Psychosynchosis".

I sit down one of the couples, tell the sitted person to close her eyes and remain absolutely still no matter what happens.

I tell them that this is important because I have to get the flow of air between the two people clear so a strong psychic connection is made. I wave my hands around the sitted person, then wave hands around the standing person. I then touch the standing person.

I then tell the seated person to open her eyes and ask her if she felt a touch. She does and exactly where I touched her standing partner!

The people are impressed. They have found a new psychic thing they can try. They start to think and ask me questions "Is clearing the air something you have to be a psychic to do? Exactly how do you clear the air? What is the vibes you feel?" etc.

Then I land the bomb.

I tell them that I made the whole thing up. I don't expose it, but I do tell them everything I said was false. There is no such thing as "Partner Psychosynchosis", that I made that up, and I've done nothing paranormal.

I then say "Honestly, all I've really done was fool you."

Dead. Silence.

Now they are thinking. They are replaying the trick in their heads, discarding the paranormal stuff. To this day no one has figured it out, but the seed is planted. They are now more amazed because simple human real life mundane things caused a now impossible effect. No psychic, no god, no ghosts. Just mundane human and science.

The trick becomes real magic because it was done in the real world.

And the best thing is that during the whole pratter, I do no preaching at all... :)
 
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results