http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtMZswk-7OM
my performance. looking for constructive criticisms.
-Dan
my performance. looking for constructive criticisms.
-Dan
Bureau d'Échange
- Thread starter UnknownMagician93
- Start date
Very well done, execution was pretty awesome. Do you have a sore throat or something though? Without patter, it was kinda lame... 
If you were just posting the video for critique, then at least add some music!
Anyway, keep up the good work.
(still gave it a 5/5),
-Sanj
If you were just posting the video for critique, then at least add some music!
Anyway, keep up the good work.
(still gave it a 5/5),
-Sanj
Thats actually a big problem of mine, whenever I do the 1 hand turnover taught in the book the kings shoot out of my hand like i am springing them XD
well no I dont have a sore throat but my patter for this trick is still in the works
Ok.
Question.
If you were going to make a video of an ACR routine, but your double lift was utterly horrible and wouldn't fool a 200 year old blind lady, would you post it with the bad double lift?
Then why did you make me sit through that without patter?
I dislike the BFU book for this reason; over the past few months there have been too many videos using technical difficulty as an excuse for not performing well, or properly.
It goes without saying (no pun intended) that patter is essential. At the moment, my criticism would simply be that that is not magic. I had no idea what you meant when you pointed at the deck, then yourself. No communication in some form, no magic. Can't stress that enough.
Gustav did note some technical issues. I'm not sure why your hands were shaking, but that was definitely another technical issue. You looked far too uncertain with the cards in your hand, so basically you need to get used to the movements better. There was a lot of hesitation with simply handling the deck. Even more so for the control, you've got the mechanics down but it looks very cramped and just generally not smooth enough - work on fluidity. Another finesse I'd note is that when you take out the Kings from your pocket, spread them the other way. That way, when you turn them over, you get a nicer display of the indexes of the four kings.
Question.
If you were going to make a video of an ACR routine, but your double lift was utterly horrible and wouldn't fool a 200 year old blind lady, would you post it with the bad double lift?
Then why did you make me sit through that without patter?
I dislike the BFU book for this reason; over the past few months there have been too many videos using technical difficulty as an excuse for not performing well, or properly.
It goes without saying (no pun intended) that patter is essential. At the moment, my criticism would simply be that that is not magic. I had no idea what you meant when you pointed at the deck, then yourself. No communication in some form, no magic. Can't stress that enough.
Gustav did note some technical issues. I'm not sure why your hands were shaking, but that was definitely another technical issue. You looked far too uncertain with the cards in your hand, so basically you need to get used to the movements better. There was a lot of hesitation with simply handling the deck. Even more so for the control, you've got the mechanics down but it looks very cramped and just generally not smooth enough - work on fluidity. Another finesse I'd note is that when you take out the Kings from your pocket, spread them the other way. That way, when you turn them over, you get a nicer display of the indexes of the four kings.
You should know by now people that not all tricks need patter... if the presentation does the trick justice. I am not saying his presentation is good enough to eliminate the need for patter... but, I have seen people do this trick amazingly w/o saying a word, and being truly impressed... i.e. Tony Chang (liquidsn)
But most do. Tony Chang is an exceptional magician. Performing over YouTube. And you as a magician, are impressed. Can you see the problem with your reasoning?
To impress without patter, you need one of two things:
a) to be performing to magicians, such as yourself. Try getting booked by showing that routine without speaking to an agent, and see how far that gets you in real life.
b) require a specific, usually theatrical knowledge and context, very few people have, especially magicians relatively new to magic (under about 5-10 years).
To elaborate on a): Considering that you're a magician, what truly impresses you honestly doesn't really matter in the real world. The fact is that magicians are by and large hopelessly detached from the realities of real world performing, and the minds of laymen. Magicians are impressed by Tony Chang's skill and can appreciate it. Try performing to laymen silently. Excepting specific things (refer to b) below), it won't work. Try marketing yourself as "the silent magician". Doesn't work. Show an agent Tony Chang's video as your showreel to an agent, and you'll get laughed at and escorted out of the building by security. In other words, your example for effects without patter succeeding is based off something that would never work in the real work, and in addition is besides the point.
To expand on b): Briefly, very little works without patter. Stage magic is perhaps one which is most often performed without patter of all the other branches of magic. Obviously, in this case, we are not talking about stage magic. But in that instance, usually there would be background music and strict choreography. And to repeat my point, these routines require in depth theatrical knowledge which is possessed by few, least of all on these forums. Patter still has to be replaced by something special. In this case it is not only impractical to do so but extremely difficult to do in general.
What you say is true, technically, in a very limited sense, but your argument is basically void. Comparing an effect to a performance by Tony Chang over YouTube intended for magicians is comparing Casey Donovan to anorexia. Patter has always been and remains one of the most important aspects of creating the experience of magic, barring specific instances. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise probably has no idea what they're talking about.
And for the record, it's not good enough to eliminate the need for patter.
To impress without patter, you need one of two things:
a) to be performing to magicians, such as yourself. Try getting booked by showing that routine without speaking to an agent, and see how far that gets you in real life.
b) require a specific, usually theatrical knowledge and context, very few people have, especially magicians relatively new to magic (under about 5-10 years).
To elaborate on a): Considering that you're a magician, what truly impresses you honestly doesn't really matter in the real world. The fact is that magicians are by and large hopelessly detached from the realities of real world performing, and the minds of laymen. Magicians are impressed by Tony Chang's skill and can appreciate it. Try performing to laymen silently. Excepting specific things (refer to b) below), it won't work. Try marketing yourself as "the silent magician". Doesn't work. Show an agent Tony Chang's video as your showreel to an agent, and you'll get laughed at and escorted out of the building by security. In other words, your example for effects without patter succeeding is based off something that would never work in the real work, and in addition is besides the point.
To expand on b): Briefly, very little works without patter. Stage magic is perhaps one which is most often performed without patter of all the other branches of magic. Obviously, in this case, we are not talking about stage magic. But in that instance, usually there would be background music and strict choreography. And to repeat my point, these routines require in depth theatrical knowledge which is possessed by few, least of all on these forums. Patter still has to be replaced by something special. In this case it is not only impractical to do so but extremely difficult to do in general.
What you say is true, technically, in a very limited sense, but your argument is basically void. Comparing an effect to a performance by Tony Chang over YouTube intended for magicians is comparing Casey Donovan to anorexia. Patter has always been and remains one of the most important aspects of creating the experience of magic, barring specific instances. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise probably has no idea what they're talking about.
And for the record, it's not good enough to eliminate the need for patter.
dude that finger flutter for that one hand bottom palm was horrible. Its shouting " HEY LOOK AT ME! SOMETHINGS HAPPENING!" The convincing control was flashed man. This the hardest effect in the book IMO, and man I dont think you quite have it down yet ESPECIALLY if you are gooing to do it for a camera for magicians.
I understand the lack of patter thing, your showing it to magicians, and not laymen, its not really needed. Just make sure you DO have patter when you perform. And misdirection in your case when you do that one hand bottom palm.
I understand the lack of patter thing, your showing it to magicians, and not laymen, its not really needed. Just make sure you DO have patter when you perform. And misdirection in your case when you do that one hand bottom palm.
watch tony chang's, he flashes as well. please be more constructive unless YOU have a video doing this effect flawlessly.
this is a rediculously hard trick. That one hand palm is just one of those sleights that takes a LOT of work. You did a good job, dont worry about the flutter as it will get better as you get faster and smoother with the sleight. Just getting the cards all the way to palm position is hard enough, then to do it quick and with minimal finger movement.... just keep working at it. I am still working on the trick "house guest" and it is just one of those things that you keep working for until one day its there.
dont come at me man, your the one messin up, not me. I said i dont perform this effect, but i HAVE studied the book in excess. the first time i saw this effect performed was by almanicia. Flawless. It can be done, just because tony doesnt perform it flawlessly doesnt mean its acceptable.
I dont have to prove a damn thing to you, man.
If you are going to critisizeme with no real reason/tips you DO need to prove that you are qualified to critisize someone.
No you don't, I am with magicfreak for once, he has nothing to prove you took the step to post the video he gave his honest opinion on it. I know from experience he can blunt but you asked for it, Criticism and he sure as heck knows how to dish it out.
Anyway I know I have flamed this person in the past for giving criticism but he is right for the most part of all of his posts. Very intelligent member of this forum and high on my list of people to get criticism from even though it can be blunt to the point that it is harsh. He is kind of like the Simon Cowell of T11, get over it and take in his critic it will help you in the long run.
And I for once agree with nexus too.
Frankly, you don't have to prove anything to criticise, especially when you yourself offer a video up for criticism.
Think of any sport you like. Say that baseball pitcher isn't performing well. So you criticise him. The notion that you have to be at least as good as him to criticise him is ridiculous. As long as you understand what's going on, the criticism is valid.
Okay so I just want to say I dislike the video, let me explain before you get angered further. The video was only your chest down and while doing an effect half of the misdirection is above and out of frame, so any attempt of misdirection is lost and we are left burning your hands. To expand a bit more misdirection less noticeable flickering of fingers, very sleight heavy effects should not be put on youtube.
The video you posted I was able to watch over and over again, which is a problem with youtube and sharing video on the Internet in general. Now onto the critique of the effect itself, right off the back I heard the music and I about shot myself. I am almost certain that you will perform this effect with some sort of presentation or at least emotion because in this video there were no justifications what so ever.
I suggest that you work out a presentation not a story but a guideline onto why you are doing what you do. An escaped convict plotline would work well with this, or even talk about how Houdini the five of clubs escaped from Alcatraz and left the guards (kings) trapped. Anything but a silent act would work better then what you have given us in this video.
The handling the first time round of watching this flew right by me I didn’t notice much suspicious movements, but then again I was to busy trying to figure out whether the music of the video was like the melody in Sweeney Todd the Hollywood version. Now th secnd and third time through I did notice the slight finger twinkling and what not and I feel it isn’t a problem at all. If you have a proper presentation I would say you are ready to go and perform it live, you can only practice so much by yourself, the real practice comes from interacting with people other then your family.
We are magicians and expect perfection all though perfection is in fact not achievable ever doesn’t mean we can’t strive for it, get my jive? As you perform it more for people all the little wrinkles will work themselves out. In conclusion work on a presentation, use your entire body to misdirect because your hand are occupied. Be creative with that use your voice inflection move your shoulders in ways just use your general body language to misdirect. Furthermore you are good in my books to start practicing for real in front of live people who will most likely give you the best critique if you flash or anything of that sort. I have a magician’s bias they don’t and their criticism means the most even if you feel they are not qualified to give critique.
The video you posted I was able to watch over and over again, which is a problem with youtube and sharing video on the Internet in general. Now onto the critique of the effect itself, right off the back I heard the music and I about shot myself. I am almost certain that you will perform this effect with some sort of presentation or at least emotion because in this video there were no justifications what so ever.
I suggest that you work out a presentation not a story but a guideline onto why you are doing what you do. An escaped convict plotline would work well with this, or even talk about how Houdini the five of clubs escaped from Alcatraz and left the guards (kings) trapped. Anything but a silent act would work better then what you have given us in this video.
The handling the first time round of watching this flew right by me I didn’t notice much suspicious movements, but then again I was to busy trying to figure out whether the music of the video was like the melody in Sweeney Todd the Hollywood version. Now th secnd and third time through I did notice the slight finger twinkling and what not and I feel it isn’t a problem at all. If you have a proper presentation I would say you are ready to go and perform it live, you can only practice so much by yourself, the real practice comes from interacting with people other then your family.
We are magicians and expect perfection all though perfection is in fact not achievable ever doesn’t mean we can’t strive for it, get my jive? As you perform it more for people all the little wrinkles will work themselves out. In conclusion work on a presentation, use your entire body to misdirect because your hand are occupied. Be creative with that use your voice inflection move your shoulders in ways just use your general body language to misdirect. Furthermore you are good in my books to start practicing for real in front of live people who will most likely give you the best critique if you flash or anything of that sort. I have a magician’s bias they don’t and their criticism means the most even if you feel they are not qualified to give critique.
Alright thanks for the response there. And yes I have infact performed this effect live about.... 4 times already. Everything has gone smoothly. I use a patter along the lines of teaching someone about a "secret techinique of how to switch cards from my hand to yours".
So? This is a terrible argument. Just because someone else does it wrong its ok if you do also? This has nothing to do with who can perform it better, we aren't talking about his performance, we are talking about yours. You flashed, so you are being criticized for it.
I think those youtube comments have gone to your head