Community Fading?

The problem I see is that people seem to be relying on the fellow peers to motivate yourself which is sometimes necessary. Sometimes you have to be in it for YOU. There have been several things in my life that other friends have got me into it and then a year later my particular friend is no longer involved but I'm still in it for the long haul.

To me, I think we haven't discovered anything yet cause we don't master what's already out there. Overhead springs, 3 or 2 card juggling, behind the back deck tosses and pirouette aerial stunts, full fledged perching routines, self-standing sculptures, table moves, and armspreads. How can you even begin to think to evolve this art if you don't even master what's already available to you. Some people say they want to be original by having original moves. WHO SAID THAT WAS WHAT WAS IMPORTANT!?!?! There are very few REAL original moves that are actually useful to people and are very different. Great example would be Ciappi's palmback fans, but realize you can get away with never performing these PBFs. You pull what you want from each category of the art and pull it together to the flow of a routine/performance.

Getting to the point where doing a King Cobra is like doing a Charlier cut is what we're aiming for!!!!!!! Raising the bar of the community so that the community will naturally evolve the art themselves. But no, some people want to sit and stay with their 100% no drop practice routines to feel good about themselves. Learn something new, drop cards, have fun with it while you're at it, so what if you can't create the next badass 8 packet display cut that the community will like you for. I'll be the first to tell you, I have no created any individual moves that I could call original, and guess what: I don't care. If you want to stick with your so-called "original" moves yeah just try to attract some laymen with those moves when I'm juggling 5 playing cards in their face.
 
It makes me sad to see the comunity so sad, being new I've never experianced the community when it was at it's peak and unfortunatly have to hear second hand about the great works of the previous generation such as Bone. One thing I have noticed however is that the good flourishers seem to be those that have other people beyond the internet encouraging them. I mean look at Virtuoso and how each member has developed their own unique style no doubt from the constant feedback from the others of the group. Seeing some recent footage of Jonas and co having some fun in Sweden also shows how being together forms a kind of sick creativity.

There is always a new way to form a display, always another packet you can add to a cut, but this doesn't exactly move the art forward. I think that one methods of moving the art forward could be in the exploration of style, rather than just the pure technical skill, how can you present your flourishes different to the spectator? I know some people don't even perform for spectators, they just do it in the comfort of their own home, or create videos to post on sites like this. Anyone can do an Ambitious card routine, but it's each magicians style and presentation that seperates the good magicians from the bad ones. While this isn't going to be a rejuvination of Cardistry, it may inspire people to create things to match thier personalities rather than sticking to things that just look really hard to do. Most flourishes aren't that hard to do once you sit there for an hour or two, then it's just a matter of doing it over and over and over again, they really are far less compliacted then they appear to be. While I don't personally like the De'vo style I like the focus not on complexity but more on thier style and presentation more than the moves themselves. I haven't been around long enough to know what this community needs to revive itself, I won't pretend to, but one thing I do notice is the lack of personal style which is one thing I plan to develop properly now that I have a fairly solid foundation of skills.
 
Aug 31, 2007
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We need something new and unique, something powerful. Powerful enough to really liven up the card-world.

Something like Virtuoso.

- harapan. magic!

P.S. I think Theory11 f-ed up a lot more things that it did help anything. Both magic and cardistry community. Hmm.
 
Sep 1, 2007
885
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Jamestown, NC
www.google.com
Something like Virtuoso.

- harapan. magic!

P.S. I think Theory11 f-ed up a lot more things that it did help anything. Both magic and cardistry community. Hmm.

I'm having quite a field day searching for every negative post you've posted tonight. What's the point, really? This is definatly the 3rd post I've found of you being completely unreasonable.

Enlighten us, please. :confused:

Shane K.
 
Aug 31, 2007
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Laughing at "tonight"... over here it's 3pm in the afternoon.

I am just not seeing how Theory11 is helping the community in anyway, besides producing more products and providing another forum.

Basically, I am becoming disappointed with Theory11.

- harapan. magic!
 
Sep 6, 2007
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Taking on the responsability of being the home for cardistry comes with the burden of pushing the art further. I haven't seen this, YET, from T11. Hopefully stuff will come soon to get us down this path.


Jason
 
Sep 1, 2007
16
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Singapore
The thing with T11 was that it split the community. Some people from DN didn't see eye to eye with it and the influx of "noobs" that would come along with it, so some don't want to post their vids here or come to the forums here. What T11 aims to do is to bring more new blood here, but since pros are ignoring this place due to the percieved "influx" of noobs, there is no improvement.

I felt that decknique had enough momentum going to kick cardisty into a new level, slow but steady. T11 just made this a deadlock.

And i think the media section has too many videos (magic and blah blah blah, whereas DN seems to be stricter on video posting) which just confuses us and drags the focus away.

Oh well=( Hopfully, everyone would come to accept this place. Initially i did not, but since richard oficially moved DN here, why not just accept it ? If everyone were to coorporate in making this place the so called DN, i believe it would improve.

Oh and richard i got a suggestion, you should make a separate T11 website just for the forums, videos and all and all people from the magic section and all can link to it. Right now its too intergrative. There is no focus on cardistry, just a mishmash of things. so T11 should have two websites one on cardistry and one on magic and both link to each other, now i think it will satisfy your goal as well us us the community
 
Sep 4, 2007
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Some people from DN didn't see eye to eye with it and the influx of "noobs" that would come along with it, so some don't want to post their vids here or come to the forums here.

I'm sorry but this is just not true.

I've been at DN since nearly day one. And at no point in time has DN been "anti-noob".

Like ANY other forum, be it cards, cars, kayaks, video editing, or whatever there has been a light aversion to "noobs" I had to go through it 3 years ago at the Magic cafe, lol. It happens on the car forums and video forums I visit. It's unavoidable. The new guys ALWAYS has to go through a sort of initiation phase. We even give new people a hard time here at my office. It's part of life.

DN has actually lightened the load on Newbies. It was from discussions on DN that sparked me to create the first and only website with a bunch of free tutorials just for newbies. And I'm not the only one with a "Power to the noob" complex. Go through the post at DN, you won't see any thing other then the normal "noob" jokes.

So if you are new, (to anything) just suck it up and stick to it.



To further address your point, Most of the DN crowd that isn't thrilled about T11, see's the merger as putting Cardistry back as a Sub catagory of Magic, which is a huge step backwards.

Personally, I just don't like magic all that much.
 
Aug 31, 2007
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Hahah, just to trash: I wasn't disrespecting HL, I complimented Jerry and De'vo in my comment, just you.


I think things will just come around again... maybe the virts are the new idols for young guys, idk, but people will still do it and most of the serious folks will live out their days cutting and shuffling a deck with people via the internet.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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DnD also just said in a different thread that they may have a new DVD coming out ... not sure if its just magic or including more flourishes?
 

Vinnie C.

cardistry moderator / t11
Aug 31, 2007
352
2
Los Angeles, CA
Remember guys, this isn't all about moves. A few more original moves isn't enough to spark things into life again, we need something slightly more grand.

Virtuoso really has it going. I'm looking forward to the things they have planned.

-Vince
 
Sep 2, 2007
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The Virts keep moving forward because they help each other move forward, isn't it quite obvious sharing is essential for the art to move forward then?
 
Guys,


Quit whining.
If you're not willing to make an investment to improve in the art, then you don't deserve to pick it up. DVDs are "sharing with the appreciative". DVD releases are the most generous form of a creator sharing his work with the general public while retaining the least bit of respect for himself. Take a DVD, and it's average cost of 30 usd, and divide it by the material, assuming its content be three moves. You guys are so cheap if $10 isn't worth a lifetime investment. How much is this art worth to you?


Wake up.
If you think it's so easy to create ground breaking material, then start creating it and release to the world the second you do. It's not enough to be talented. There's a passion and dedication where it came from. There is a sense of sentimental value in the work we produce. Also, bear in mind that creators are not obliged to share or even release their work in any form. How proud are you of your work?


Prove yourself.
If you don't feel original work is what we need, then show us you've mastered all that you know. Show us what you've put together, and inspire us with the principles you abide by and your 'way of life' where the art is concerned. Mastery is far too underestimated in this art. Take your highest standard imaginable, multiply it to something you literally cannot imagine. See that in your mind? Good. Hit it, and stop compromising. How much will you push yourself?


Be patient.
You guys want a revival? A revival is coming and it will hit in all directions at once. It is not just 'one', for we understood too, that one factor, just isn't enough.

How big is it all going to be?


Pretty f**kin' huge.


-Huron, The Virts
 
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