Creating Magic

Sep 2, 2007
1,182
118
28
Houston, TX
Hey guys, Rob here! I've been seeing all this talk on the Wire and it seems that a lot of people are talking bad about creating magic and I'd like to know why?

I understand some of you don't like that some people just create to sell, but not everyone is in magic for the same reasons! Some people may just want to do magic for friends and family while some people want to perform big stage shows for a living. Everyone is doing magic for their own reason, so what's wrong with people being in magic to create to sell?

I, by no means JUST create to sell. I love to perform, I do every chance I get! I do shows, and hopefully will start working restaurants. But for me, creating is something that, especially after Ziplocked, I realized that I love to do! I almost love it as much as performing. It's just fun for me, and maybe it's a lot of fun for others. What's wrong with that?

My goal in magic is to be the best PERFORMER I can be, but I also want to keep creating, and releasing to get my name known in the magic community. I would love more than anything for one day to be doing shows that consists entirely of material I have created.
 
Sep 1, 2007
733
2
Hey Rob, hopefully I'll get in this thread before it fills up with huge posts that nobody reads.

People are talking bad about creating magic because it seems like the direction and point of magic has shifted dramatically. With people like Blake, Calen and Patrick (no smack talk here, they're all good friends of mine.) being made into celebrities of the magic world - it seems that everyone wants to be "famous" in one way or another, if not as an actor, then even well known among the small magic community will suffice.

I know Calen, Patrick and Blake all perform magic live for real people without a camera crew, but they're well known for their creations in magic. That's all we see of them, so for the younger generation of magicians it seems like that's what makes them good magicians. We've begun to idolize creators, and by doing that we inadvertently shun performers. Real, working professional magicians. You don't get on the front page of Theory11.com by releasing a vlog on magic theory.

Daniel Garcia posted on his twitter account something along the lines of "Young magicians used to want to grow up and have their own show and theater, now they want their own DVD and website."

I had a long talk with Calen a while back during his blog - I finally came out with the opinion that creation is just as vital to an art like magic, as the performance of the art. I believe that. I also believe that if you were on the outside looking in at magic then that isn't what it seems like.
 
Jan 31, 2008
103
1
Brooklyn, NY
I think everyone has ideas they want to share and I like the idea of getting paid for them, we've been paying to get other peoples ideas for years, it's kind of nice being able to get something back for our creative efforts.

I can imagine there will be some unoriginal material posted, I'd be happy if my material were declined due to unoriginality, cause I'd have learned it wasn't original. It can be difficult to discover for yourself if your material is original since there is just so much out there and only so many ways to find out. I'm not going to buy every book on card magic or consult every magic historian just to find out I did indeed make a move myself.

This will also open doors for even more originality in the future, ideas we didn't have before will inspire ideas we would've never come-up with had someone not found a way to publish their material like this.

The closest thing to bad I can see happening is someone just sells something so bad, but original, and we get discouraged from buying new artists creations, so hopefully people will supply useful reviews for the material on the wire to avoid to much purchase of a bad idea.

I can't imagine to much bad coming out of this.
 
Oct 20, 2008
274
0
Austin, TX area
Daniel Garcia posted on his twitter account something along the lines of "Young magicians used to want to grow up and have their own show and theater, now they want their own DVD and website."

I've been wanting to relocating that tweet for a long while. I thought it was Daniel Garcia, too, but I think he retweeted it from Eric Mead. http://twitter.com/#!/meaderic/status/47916713660006400

I have nothing to really add to the creation of magic. The topic has come up as a side effect of other matters, but it's nothing I have really delved into.
 
Sep 1, 2007
733
2
I think everyone has ideas they want to share and I like the idea of getting paid for them, we've been paying to get other peoples ideas for years, it's kind of nice being able to get something back for our creative efforts.

I'm don't think it's what you meant, but it sounds like you create magic just so other magicians can use the moves and effects?

Isn't that what paid gigs are for? Getting something back for you effort? You don't deserve to get paid for the things you come up with, people deem your ideas worthy of money at some point, and they'll wave money at you to share the ideas you haven't released yet. If I sat down at a session with you and you seemed like the type of person I deemed worthy to know about the work I've created, I would tell you. Free of charge.

I get paid to use my ideas in a professional setting, and very well. My efforts have long since been rewarded, and continue to be. I create magic because I love magic, I share with others who also love magic. If someone wants to see something I don't normally share, then they might have to pay for it. Only for the reason that if they paid a good amount of money for it, then they won't go blabbing to everyone else that didn't pay for it.

Edit: Also, to add to my original point of "magic" being only about creating and not performing - which it's a performance based art, if you don't perform, you're not a magician. Anyway, take a look at the advertisement page of "how to submit" on The Wire, it's all about getting famous.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
13
61
Northampton, MA - USA
I'd suggest folks check out the archives @ On-Line VISIONS; specifically the articles I and Kenton Knepper have written on the subject of creating and jumping onto certain bandwagons.

I strongly support creativity but only when it is VIABLE and PRACTICAL; E, T-11, Penguin, Paper Crane and other "new" companies featuring young developers are all guilty of putting out some over-hyped CRAP. . . material that cannot be used under practical working conditions let alone how we are lead to believe they can be used on the streets, randomly by way of the video teasers. Worse, a large amount of what is being pooped out hasn't been researched and properly credited, which is a huge no no in our world. . . I'm a bit biased on that point in that some of the material in question I wrote on 20 years ago. Then we have literal 6th grade science class experiments being repackaged and sold as a magic trick.

Pardon my rant, but these are the things that aren't just hurting magic as a whole, but the sites that produce such shlock. They all amaze me because when these things are pointed out, people take affront. . . none of us want to be judged or told we are doing something "wrong", especially creative people. But we have another conflict there that isn't being noted; deception vs. method. There's been some awesome ideas put out in the past few years based on technology but, the maker of the device has such a limited understanding of magic that they fail when it comes to making the prop deceptive and able to remove any public question around it when it comes to method. Let's face it, if you hear a sound coming from an object what is the most logical way for that to happen? That being the case the effect & technology must be sewn together in a manner that obfuscates the obvious; we're not seeing a lot of that in today's world, a great example is the DEATH TOLL bell from Taylor Engineering... great concept but terrible design when it comes to concealing/disguising the likely technology -- something about a 1" thick plastic base just screams LOOK HERE!

Don't get me wrong, the effect is awesome and the technology quite clever. . . I was thrown for a loop when I discovered that it didn't use magnets which is the general assumption. My gripe as it were, is that the developers of this piece (and others out there) didn't take the time to engineer the unit so that it would be deceptive and clean; guarding against suspicion.

There is a moving Planchette on the market right now from out of the UK that works in the same exact manner Chuck Leech, myself and others all discarded as impractical and overly obvious. . . I happen to have three such units on a shelf right now that were prototyped and rejected. . . and yes, I have a version I'm developing right now as a possible market piece. The point is, part of being creative means that we must likewise learn to reject our ideas or set them aside, until we can "perfect" them -- get rid of their weaknesses and/or build up their strengths.

I'm a very tough nut when it comes to this issue, partly due to the people I've worked with in creating magic and our mutual drive to make things as "perfect" as we can possibly get them. Frequently that means building, destroying and rebuilding a piece several times (and when you get into stage sized effect, that can get very expensive).

Beans brings out a very important truth. . . sort of. . . if you don't perform you can't develop magic for those that do. You may be able to come up with neat and nifty ideas but the must be audience & circumstance tested. This means that one MUST perform or have a genuine background in performance such as we find with John Gaughan, Bill Smith, Jim Stinemeyer and Rand Woodbury four of the biggest names in stage magic development, all of them having time on stage and in some cases, still perform.

Pardon my rant, but I hope you understand it and why it needed to be said.
 
Jan 31, 2008
103
1
Brooklyn, NY
I'm don't think it's what you meant, but it sounds like you create magic just so other magicians can use the moves and effects?

You are correct, I never created something just for someone else to do it, I've created things I have used.

Unfortunately I'm not a professional so my material hasn't seen too much action, I've done some open mic performances, some other things, but it's not my focus in life. I do feel I have some quality material worth giving others the opportunity to see, useful moves, routines, ideas, all things I've used in my non-professional settings. I'm not a convention goer, I'm not a club member, and I'm not a professional so this is one of the ways I can demonstrate my stuff, and I wouldn't mind earning something for it.

Now the material will determine weather I deserve to get paid for it, the demo and description will determine that. I don't just expect people to just throw money at me, but if I don't put it up, there's no way it'll be seen and my good ideas will end with me and others might have a use for it.
 
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results