Do magician's ever have a poker night where anyone who comes is supposed to cheat?

Joey144

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2007
296
111
Bavaria, Germany
You don't have to tell me that finger flutter is something that cannot be fully eliminated
Im well aware of that
I meant that his bottom deal looks completly unnatural in my eyes
which brings me back to my starting point, that I can't believe that he ever cheated in a real game (as he claims in his bio)
But enough about daniel madison, this thread isn't about him :)
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,186
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London
I'd really love to organise an event where the top card guys competed in a game of poker, with the rules along the lines of Vernon's games. Maybe each player could be bankrolled by a corporate sponsor, and the winnings are donated to a charity of the winner's choice, with another gaming expert in the commentary booth. I reckon a poker channel would definitely broadcast that.

Show format idea copyright Recharged Media Limited 2011. ;)
 
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
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No. I don't have to prove anything to you.

Look up his Bio and do the research yourself.

Hey, I'm a cheat. I got my ass kicked because I had a major !@#$-up card counting when I was younger.

Prove I'm not a cheat.

To add to Daniel Madison's video, his DPS flashes a major break at the front. And I'd be suspicious of any guy who's moving their left hand back and forth like they're jacking off an elephant when dealing.

But then again, he's a retired cheat.
 
Jun 10, 2010
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I haven't been into magic that long and I could totally tell what Madison was doing while he was cheating.

Few of my layman buddies watched the video (emailed them a link), and even they could tell me it was suspicious handling. They didn't always understand quite what he was doing, but it's ridiculous and would break any sort of standard procedure.

Final verdict: Cheating persona background? BS. Any of his material pertaining to cheating? BS. Flourishing? Not bad. Magic? Not bad either.
 
Feb 4, 2008
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Hate to be a Debbie downer but it really sounds as if you guys are letting your disdain for Daniel Madison color your critique of him. While I agree that he is no where near the skill of England, Darwin Ortiz, Steve Forte, and Ricky Jay I do think he is competent at the moves. At least more so than you guys give him credit for. And comparing him to Richard Turner....that is like trying to compare a priest to Jesus Christ. Nobody, That I have seen at least, is even in the same room, let alone the same game, as Turner. And if this is about his claims to having been a cheat...well I have my doubts as well. Nevertheless, I think the moves are good enough. I've spent the last few days surfing YouTube for people demoing gambling moves and frankly, he is better than most. At least good enough to impress a laymen. I say that with confidence because I impress laymen with my gambling demos all the time and my moves are not as good as his. It seems that, when it comes to Daniel Madison, most opinions come from either the haters or the fan boys. I'm just trying to chip in from a guy who is neither. I like the guys work but at times he can seem a little pretentious. I'm probably just sticking up for him because I would hate to have people get that nit picky about my stuff! lol. When it comes to gambling moves you get better in increments. That is probably why all the guys who become known for them are generally in their mid to late thirties, and more often than not 40+. It takes years to look really good at this stuff. Anyways...just my thoughts.
 
Aug 20, 2010
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Practicing
Nobody, That I have seen at least, is even in the same room, let alone the same game, as Turner.

So, in other words, you haven't seen Forte. Don't get me wrong, Turner is great. But Steve manipulates cards and dice with a touch that very few people have. And when it comes to gambling knowledge he is simply unparalleled; he has no equal.

Sure; some people can deal bottoms better than him, some people can stack cards better than him, but when it comes to doing a ton of moves extremely well, he can't be touched.
 
May 18, 2008
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Wow, I can NOT believe how egotistical people are being on this forum. Daniel Madison is a damn good card manipulator and one who, did, at one point, cheat for a living. Any of these others are good too; arguing about it like you know everything about gambling does not help to promote these people you state to be the best; it just shows that you have too much time on your hands and think you know everything about gambling.

So, guys, how about you go and research the methods used by these great card manipulators as opposed to spouting off about who you "know" is the best for no reason? Geez.

They are all great; now let's go learn from them instead of arguing.
 
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
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Wow, I can NOT believe how egotistical people are being on this forum. Daniel Madison is a damn good card manipulator and one who, did, at one point, cheat for a living. Any of these others are good too; arguing about it like you know everything about gambling does not help to promote these people you state to be the best; it just shows that you have too much time on your hands and think you know everything about gambling.

So, guys, how about you go and research the methods used by these great card manipulators as opposed to spouting off about who you "know" is the best for no reason? Geez.

They are all great; now let's go learn from them instead of arguing.

Can you do me a favor? Sign up for the Magic Cafe forums. Next, post this exact quote in the Gambling Spot and see how many people can prove you wrong.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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Chill the **** out people. No one needs to prove anything to anyone. We all know your pricks are the smallest things around, no need to compare them. Another thing is, nothing wrong with being a cheat, Thurston was pretty well off...before he died, but lets not go into that.
 
Even though I could tell what Madison was doing in the cheating video, I do think he did a decent job. I think the only reason that I could see his tricks so easily is because I'm a magician myself. I think most laypeople wouldn't be able to figure it out.
 
Feb 7, 2011
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Since i brought Daniel Madison's name up, ill throw in my two cents. I mentioned him because as far as im aware he is the only one who was actually a chard cheat.

1. Madison is better than you guys, if you think you're better thats cool, start submitting your work to theory11. Simple as, dont respond to that.
2. You might not believe he was ever a cheat, i do, but it doesn't matter. He's offering a service where he will come to your house and cheat in a real game, for practical joke purposes. Not many people will offer that service, i mean, most wont because i cant imagine there is much money to be earned, id much rather hire a magician, but the fact that he has the confidence to do it is convincing to me. Some of you will know, he has moved almost entirely away from magic, the only magic he releases now is in collections from his back catalogue, he is moving completely toward crooked gambling and other forms of playing card deception. To be perfectly honest, he's a genius in his own right. I dont have alot of his stuff, but the limited amount i do have, it's unbelievably clever. As for his chops, well he's alot better than me, and even if he wasn't, cheating can be done sucessfully for a lifetime with nothing but a false shuffle and a passable bottom deal, if you have the balls. If you think you chops are better than his you are probably right, and im sure sure people often remarke how much better than daniel madison you are.
 
Jun 10, 2010
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I give up. You guys are right.

P.S. There's better ways to do blockout work than with a sharpie. Better marking systems than Madison's, too.
P.P.S. I'm kidding. I just don't feel like arguing about it anymore.
P.P.P.S. But seriously. There's better ways than that blood system stuff..
 
Jul 13, 2008
382
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All of you guys are freakin' idiots. Look at how this thread started and look at what it turned out as. Stay on topic, please. Sheesh. Egos these days . . .
 
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