theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards
Heckler!!!
- Thread starter rjabella
- Start date
how did he get the deck?
he shouldnt have the deck
i have a card in my wallet, its a gag card.
it has a picture of every card from a deck of cards on it.
so i can always use that
he shouldnt have the deck
i have a card in my wallet, its a gag card.
it has a picture of every card from a deck of cards on it.
so i can always use that
That should not happen. Only you are in controll of your magic. One of the main things you have to learn is to manage your spectator and audience. If he keeps grabbing for the deck just take it back and move on to someone else. I found this out myself not too long ago. Some people just refuse to enjoy the magical effect your going to show them and they will try to control every part of your routine by grabbing for stuff and trying to figure every little thing out. These are the people who just totally refuse to be fooled. Theres not much to do but pack up and move to the next target. In time, with enough experience, practice and speed you will be able to handle these kind of people. If plan A doesn't work, go to plan B.
Give him the deck and say: "actually you can show me the card, I've seen this trick before (it's really good)" and ask him to sign it. Then go on with an ambitious card routine...
It sounds like a person like that would simply insist on you telling him his card, though. "Why do you need to see it? Just tell me what it is."
He shouldnt have been able to take the deck from you in the first place. Control your audience.
I have outs for this. Similiar things have happened to me before.
1. As said above the "You do it" line.
2. Go with the lame gag "Here is your card and i changed it to (what ever card youre holding)"
3. Ask him to take it back out because the trick youre doing doesnt require the deck. At which point I would do something... such as... a TNR, or just vanishes. If he asked to show him something cool. I would just boomerang the card he picked and say that was cool.
4. If he insists on you telling it to him. I say "I telephatically told you. What is your card?" and yea so on...
Havent met one of these in a long time.
The thing is he should have never gotten the deck. No idea how that happened. Hold on to the deck. If he insists on you putting the card in and he shuffles it. I either, do a glimpse, or crimp it.
I have outs for this. Similiar things have happened to me before.
1. As said above the "You do it" line.
2. Go with the lame gag "Here is your card and i changed it to (what ever card youre holding)"
3. Ask him to take it back out because the trick youre doing doesnt require the deck. At which point I would do something... such as... a TNR, or just vanishes. If he asked to show him something cool. I would just boomerang the card he picked and say that was cool.
4. If he insists on you telling it to him. I say "I telephatically told you. What is your card?" and yea so on...
Havent met one of these in a long time.
The thing is he should have never gotten the deck. No idea how that happened. Hold on to the deck. If he insists on you putting the card in and he shuffles it. I either, do a glimpse, or crimp it.
Clarification: The line I posted before was theoretically spoken by the spectator.
The problem I can see with those options, sciffy (not to pick on you btw but I do find this topic interesting), is that they all seem rather weak to me. You're right on two counts, firstly and more importantly, control your audience, and secondly, you should be able to improvise an out.
The problem I can see with those options, sciffy (not to pick on you btw but I do find this topic interesting), is that they all seem rather weak to me. You're right on two counts, firstly and more importantly, control your audience, and secondly, you should be able to improvise an out.
like said before tell them to let you see it and imediatley switch to a "back up " trick i use mark mason's foot & mouth or ambitious
are you effing kidding me?
anyway, hecklers usually want attention, there is no need to fight with them, joke and play with them a little, give them attention, there is a lot of things that you can do like..
"Hey dude, I was SUPPOSED to see the card also, what do you think I am? (slowly start to take the deck from their hands in the offbeat) a magician? gosh...(people laugh)
that is an example of what you can do, lets remember something, hecklers are egomaniatical bastards (joking) that like to see you fail, you dont need to start thinking "well Im good enough, he wont see my sleights" because you are actually losing right there, instead, if you say something like the thing posted above, althought you are saying it in a funny tone you are actually telling the heckler " dude, you got me, youre better than me, ill show you something cool because you are cooler than me" yeah, it sounds kinda weird to use this, but in their mind they got the message and they dont have the need anymore to ruin your tricks, therefore you can begin your routine over again witouht them interrumpting, hell, 80% of the time they get astonished at the end too!
just dont start a mini yu-gi-ho (im better than you jerk!) battle with them, is bad for your health
Hmm. RDC, would you say that that puts you in an uphill battle and an immediate disadvantage then? You're the magician and audience control and establishing guidelines of magic is your role. It's an odd thing to get used to, this sort of power - and yet, it's something that can be a great tool. The problem I have with "I was supposed to see the card" is, you just had the card replaced face down into the deck. So, either it comes off as really weak, or you just don't know what you're doing, it seems to me.
The other thing is, the very admittal that they "got you" instantly dents your reputation and your status as a magician. Of course, you can always win the back with a good trick - but as I mentioned at the start, this seems to me to be an uphill battle, and an unnecessary disadvantage. Again, just trying to inject some thoughts into this, so nothing implied from it ^^
Some extra one-liners/thoughts:
I open with a non-pick a card effect. By the time this has finished I have established credibility, control, friendship, as well as performing a strong effect.
Even if this were to happen exactly as the OP stated - you're a magician, so why, according to a spectator, would you not be able to tell them their card?
Moments like this has a lot of potential to establish you as a magician, or degrade you to the guy that does tricks.
Assuming you can instantly read the spec's mind and tell him the card named (this is in essence what I do in this situation, ditching other effect), resist the urge to do so. Instead, it will be impromptu, but improvise a presentation and a build-up. This is not simply a show of skill - you are not a dog following a command; you're a magician performing magic.
Feel free to argue, disagree with, expand upon, or otherwise engage with any of these too.
The other thing is, the very admittal that they "got you" instantly dents your reputation and your status as a magician. Of course, you can always win the back with a good trick - but as I mentioned at the start, this seems to me to be an uphill battle, and an unnecessary disadvantage. Again, just trying to inject some thoughts into this, so nothing implied from it ^^
Some extra one-liners/thoughts:
I open with a non-pick a card effect. By the time this has finished I have established credibility, control, friendship, as well as performing a strong effect.
Even if this were to happen exactly as the OP stated - you're a magician, so why, according to a spectator, would you not be able to tell them their card?
Moments like this has a lot of potential to establish you as a magician, or degrade you to the guy that does tricks.
Assuming you can instantly read the spec's mind and tell him the card named (this is in essence what I do in this situation, ditching other effect), resist the urge to do so. Instead, it will be impromptu, but improvise a presentation and a build-up. This is not simply a show of skill - you are not a dog following a command; you're a magician performing magic.
Feel free to argue, disagree with, expand upon, or otherwise engage with any of these too.
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I actually understand your point Prae, and I agree with you about the control one has to have, I mean in the majoritiy of the cases that's what we need to do ( and what we do) but in cases like this ( and you have said it before I think) we messed up, if they have the cards in their hands its because we failed and we hyave to act for it, with phrases like the one mentioned above,you indirectly tell them that you messed up, I mean dont get me wrong, the heckler KNOWS that you can't read his mind, he KNOWS that you will not find his card if he shuffles them, I mean, indirectly, you are telling him that he is right and believe me, it doesnt cut your performance at all, is like your opener ( and Im talking about the approach) a lot of times we come telling them is a experiment etc etc, and at the final they forget all that and the only thing they remember is that they had a wonderfull time and they will remember your magic for sure....
Im sure they will not remeber that you "didnt had control over them" you can easily survive that If you are a decent performer....
I mean its not an Idea, it is something that I have tested, besides I am a nice friendly guy, so that kinda helps me a bit when saying things like that...
BTW, the idea of using another thing ( not cards) as an opener is a wonderfull idea, and as I have said before, what works for me, maybe doesnt works as well with other guys...
We have to adapt, in certain cases ( althought I know we need them to adapt to us) but every situation is different therefore we need to adapt to the situation...
P.S I agree completely Prae, but this is what works for me
A lot of what you said is certainly true - and if it works, by all means stick with it. A few final thoughts for tonight and I'll revisit this tomorrow and see if anything new has been added.
Hmm. But what if you can read his mind? What if you do find his card, despite him shuffling it? This is what I was getting at, a better solution. If I get the spectator to select a card, remember it, and replace it (no force, as per the OP), and then for some reason he grabbed it and shuffled it, I would nonetheless be able to "read his mind" and divine his card as an opening effect. Notwithstanding the obvious, that you need better audience control if this happens, or that, if you perform well anyway, you can definitely recover the situation - I'm interested to see if there are better solutions. As my very first post in this thread said - then I would simply read his mind. That would be where the magic starts, despite being unprepared for it, I could do it, without compromising my position.
Yeah, absolutely. Definitely true.
That's cool, I get what you're saying. Incidentally, I do use cards as an opener, I find that they're simply convenient to use as a focal point for thoughts, at least to an extent. Most of the time I find myself opening with ACAAN these days - which is interesting for specs I think because straight away I describe it as more than just a card trick, and I emphasise the think of a card aspect, rather than picking a physical card. The nature of the effect also, I feel, discourages screwing around with the deck, and gives you a lot of control anyway. So by the time this ends, the potential for trouble is dispelled. Not to take anything away from opening with something other than cards, of course.
Again - absolutely, if it works, stick with it. I wasn't targetting what you were doing or anything - though some of your sentiments had been previously expressed, so I just wanted to provoke some discussion about it.
Hmm. But what if you can read his mind? What if you do find his card, despite him shuffling it? This is what I was getting at, a better solution. If I get the spectator to select a card, remember it, and replace it (no force, as per the OP), and then for some reason he grabbed it and shuffled it, I would nonetheless be able to "read his mind" and divine his card as an opening effect. Notwithstanding the obvious, that you need better audience control if this happens, or that, if you perform well anyway, you can definitely recover the situation - I'm interested to see if there are better solutions. As my very first post in this thread said - then I would simply read his mind. That would be where the magic starts, despite being unprepared for it, I could do it, without compromising my position.
Yeah, absolutely. Definitely true.
BTW, the idea of using another thing ( not cards) as an opener is a wonderfull idea, and as I have said before, what works for me, maybe doesnt works as well with other guys...
We have to adapt, in certain cases ( althought I know we need them to adapt to us) but every situation is different therefore we need to adapt to the situation...
P.S I agree completely Prae, but this is what works for me
That's cool, I get what you're saying. Incidentally, I do use cards as an opener, I find that they're simply convenient to use as a focal point for thoughts, at least to an extent. Most of the time I find myself opening with ACAAN these days - which is interesting for specs I think because straight away I describe it as more than just a card trick, and I emphasise the think of a card aspect, rather than picking a physical card. The nature of the effect also, I feel, discourages screwing around with the deck, and gives you a lot of control anyway. So by the time this ends, the potential for trouble is dispelled. Not to take anything away from opening with something other than cards, of course.
Again - absolutely, if it works, stick with it. I wasn't targetting what you were doing or anything - though some of your sentiments had been previously expressed, so I just wanted to provoke some discussion about it.
I would like to talk about that a second before I go ( time to go to school!) fishing for a card (because lets be honest its what we are trying to do) is kinda hard and even more on some occasions, I for example like psycological forces in my routines, and they work 70% of the time, the thing here is that you need your audience on a certain state before you attempt something like that, you need to be confident, your audience needs to believe you, I mean you have to have credibility on your part so the spectator that its helping you its more susceptible to the messages that you are unconciously giving him....
That's why I use this types of tricks later in the performance, were the settings are just right(althought I sometimes use them as an opener with people, with a deck cards in my bag as an out in case the "reading fails") the difference with fishing is that you are trying to adivinate a card, you dont know it! with the force there is a better chanse to get it, but fishing is just too hard to try, I mean you could end looking worst that if you just used another thing...
I mean, if you can do it, you have all my respect man because is something tough to pull off.
Good morn'.
Hmm. What you are saying about psychological forces/work in general, e.g. fishing, is true. That wasn't the method I use, though (it's surefire), or specifically what I was referring to; nonetheless, it's an interesting idea, and one I entertained myself. Although, in performing my method, I would make it look like psychological as part of presentation.
More important than the method though, is the actual routine; what can you find/devise without the need to know their card, but still finish with a strong conclusion?
Hmm. What you are saying about psychological forces/work in general, e.g. fishing, is true. That wasn't the method I use, though (it's surefire), or specifically what I was referring to; nonetheless, it's an interesting idea, and one I entertained myself. Although, in performing my method, I would make it look like psychological as part of presentation.
More important than the method though, is the actual routine; what can you find/devise without the need to know their card, but still finish with a strong conclusion?
A cold reading perphaps? If it is the first trick you can tell them that coincidences dont exist and that the card that they chose actually resembles alot about their life, you ask them the name of the card, look for it and give them a cold reading( of course if you know how to do that) at the end you left them feeling good and you can continue your routine, you already proved(with the cold reading) that you know your stuff...
well, right now is the only thing that comes to mind.
If you work enough - someone will eventually do something similar to you - jam the card in the deck...ask to shuffle...put you on the spot. I have used a mixture of responses.
First - I ask them why they ask me that question - they often say, "I want to see if you can do it"...this opens the door for real dialogue. What if I can? Will you think I am great? If I can't - will you think I am horrible. That is like seeing your doctor for a check up...and you ask him if he can cure cancer. If he can't - do you have a bad doctor. (To steal a line from Mitch Hedberg) Oh, you are a chef...well, can you farm? If I do this...you look bad, if I don't...I look bad - sounds like a lose-lose - I am more into win-win. Lastly, for the show to go well...I have to be in control of my actions...as if the show was up to you, well, then why am I here?
I may not say ALL of the above, but the parts that get the point across.
If someone takes a card, and jams it back into the pack...usually, I can see how far off it was to where I was having it replaced - so cound that many cards - and know that you are that far off when you are done your control - it is easy to remove or shift those cards with some thinking on your feet. If it is REALLY lost - take a look where he put it back - do a false shuffle - look at the faces in that area, and ask a few questions that will help you narrow it done...then take a guess. IF you are right - you killed - wrong...make a joke that is original to the situation...and then palm off the card...do card under glass...card to pocket...have an out. Afterall, they just want to see if you can think on your feet.
They may say, "well, you knew the card, I said it" - then say, "hmm, I didn't, but if you feel that way, please choose another" - I find putting them on the spot the second time, will allow you to hit the force for sure....if not - you are at least ready to control it and won't be caught off guard twice.
Some of the answers you got said, "you should NEVER be caught not controlling your audience" - I wonder if these people have spent time with enough audiences. You should have control of your show...but control of someone else's behaviour is ridiculous - and work enough - this situation will occur at least ONCE more than "never".
I don't think these people are Hecklers, that do this with your magic, but people that want to believe...but don't want to at the same time. If this is happening a lot, it may be your presentation. Always look at what you are doing to have situations occur - again...you can control YOUR show, not the audience...but through your show, the audience can be guided to do what isn't a natural concept - be part of a magic show. There is not natural understanding on how to be a magic show participant - as many don't see live magic until they meet you. If you claim you have real magic powers, it is not heckling to place the card back anywhere...as your magic wouldn't need a contrived replacement.
Read Strong Magic to understand more about this phase, and the importance of it - too many of us gloss over the selection and replacement part of magic...like rushing a joke just to get to the punch line - magic is more than the pay off - it is the journey of the effect that makes the effect happen...the impossiblity of the process. I digress, as per usual.
Anyhow, important topic to help you all realize, you need to be well versed in methods, so NO situation doesn't have a solution - the more tools in your belt, the less problems you can't solve.
Good luck.
First - I ask them why they ask me that question - they often say, "I want to see if you can do it"...this opens the door for real dialogue. What if I can? Will you think I am great? If I can't - will you think I am horrible. That is like seeing your doctor for a check up...and you ask him if he can cure cancer. If he can't - do you have a bad doctor. (To steal a line from Mitch Hedberg) Oh, you are a chef...well, can you farm? If I do this...you look bad, if I don't...I look bad - sounds like a lose-lose - I am more into win-win. Lastly, for the show to go well...I have to be in control of my actions...as if the show was up to you, well, then why am I here?
I may not say ALL of the above, but the parts that get the point across.
If someone takes a card, and jams it back into the pack...usually, I can see how far off it was to where I was having it replaced - so cound that many cards - and know that you are that far off when you are done your control - it is easy to remove or shift those cards with some thinking on your feet. If it is REALLY lost - take a look where he put it back - do a false shuffle - look at the faces in that area, and ask a few questions that will help you narrow it done...then take a guess. IF you are right - you killed - wrong...make a joke that is original to the situation...and then palm off the card...do card under glass...card to pocket...have an out. Afterall, they just want to see if you can think on your feet.
They may say, "well, you knew the card, I said it" - then say, "hmm, I didn't, but if you feel that way, please choose another" - I find putting them on the spot the second time, will allow you to hit the force for sure....if not - you are at least ready to control it and won't be caught off guard twice.
Some of the answers you got said, "you should NEVER be caught not controlling your audience" - I wonder if these people have spent time with enough audiences. You should have control of your show...but control of someone else's behaviour is ridiculous - and work enough - this situation will occur at least ONCE more than "never".
I don't think these people are Hecklers, that do this with your magic, but people that want to believe...but don't want to at the same time. If this is happening a lot, it may be your presentation. Always look at what you are doing to have situations occur - again...you can control YOUR show, not the audience...but through your show, the audience can be guided to do what isn't a natural concept - be part of a magic show. There is not natural understanding on how to be a magic show participant - as many don't see live magic until they meet you. If you claim you have real magic powers, it is not heckling to place the card back anywhere...as your magic wouldn't need a contrived replacement.
Read Strong Magic to understand more about this phase, and the importance of it - too many of us gloss over the selection and replacement part of magic...like rushing a joke just to get to the punch line - magic is more than the pay off - it is the journey of the effect that makes the effect happen...the impossiblity of the process. I digress, as per usual.
Anyhow, important topic to help you all realize, you need to be well versed in methods, so NO situation doesn't have a solution - the more tools in your belt, the less problems you can't solve.
Good luck.
I believe the term for these kind of people is just a "Tough Cookie" as Eugene Burger would say. REAL hecklers are far and few between and most people won't encounter them, and when or if they do. It will be like a once in a lifetime deal. Those are people I call The Real Life Version of Biff Tannent. With them, from what I have read is that it is best to just ignore them and continue performing for somebody else.
This topic is really interesting, and it reminded me of something Wayne Houchin touched on in one of his daily updates.
He said he had been working a table with a heckler, and did something on the spot that he found out worked well. He "let the spectator in" on the trick.
He palmed the card off, and had the spectator shuffle. While the spectators were focusing on the deck, he caught the attention of the heckler, showed the heckler the card, put his finger to his lips to ask him not to tell, and put the card in his jacket pocket.
By letting the heckler feel like he's a step ahead of the others, he quit trying to catche Wayne out.
This might not work for everyone though, you have to judge your person and circumstance. It could have gone terribly wrong, and the heckler could have pointed it out.
Still, it was a really interesting idea.
He said he had been working a table with a heckler, and did something on the spot that he found out worked well. He "let the spectator in" on the trick.
He palmed the card off, and had the spectator shuffle. While the spectators were focusing on the deck, he caught the attention of the heckler, showed the heckler the card, put his finger to his lips to ask him not to tell, and put the card in his jacket pocket.
By letting the heckler feel like he's a step ahead of the others, he quit trying to catche Wayne out.
This might not work for everyone though, you have to judge your person and circumstance. It could have gone terribly wrong, and the heckler could have pointed it out.
Still, it was a really interesting idea.