Here We Go...

Sep 1, 2007
648
0
30
Canada
Everyone,

It's definitely safe to say that this place needs a bit of an attitude face lift. Let's not deny this by sharing our own cynical thoughts about whether it's worth it or not. The fact of the matter is simple, this place could be better... So let's make it better! If action is never taken, things will just get worse and worse. What we need to do is set goals for this forum, and work towards them as a community.

Before we can do this we obviously need a very clear idea of what needs to be sorted out. If we can all reach a mutual understanding of the problems that face this forum, it will be a lot easier to solve them. Here's what I've been able to gather from the previous posts...

Problem One ::: ARROGANCE
Possible Solution ::: Perhaps a small reminder could be added underneath the Post Reply box, reminding users to leave their ego at the door. If that's to much to ask, those who feel strongly about the issue could post a respectful reminder in their signatures.

Problem Two ::: UNGRATEFULNESS (eg. DttDU)
Possible Solution ::: This is an issue that infects a few people. If we are able to pin-point these people, and respectfully bring it to their attention what the Theory 11 staff goes through to make this site happen, we might notice a difference.

Problem Three ::: LACK OF QUALITY POSTS
Possible Solution ::: The majority of Theory 11's customers tend to be younger, which sometimes leads to poor quality posts. If we are able to perhaps invite a few members who we know will spread the good quality bug, things may start to change. Another idea would be to have the Theory 11 Artists post in normal forum topics more often. Members will want to impress them so they'll increase their post quality.

That's all I have to say for know,

Peace.
 
In many forums over the internet there's a garbage filter, which filters any messages with too many spelling, grammar, etc. mistakes in them. You'll be surprised at how much this decreases the number of trolls in these forums... A bad attitude and a bad grasp of language usually go together. T11 doesn't have a filter like that, though I hope it will have one day.
In the meantime, just learn to be your own garbage filter - only comment on messages which are written properly and intelligently, and disregard the rest. It's simple - trolls like attention. Don't give them the attention they want, and they'll just leave.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
Everyone,

It's definitely safe to say that this place needs a bit of an attitude face lift. Let's not deny this by sharing our own cynical thoughts about whether it's worth it or not. The fact of the matter is simple, this place could be better... So let's make it better! If action is never taken, things will just get worse and worse. What we need to do is set goals for this forum, and work towards them as a community.

Before we can do this we obviously need a very clear idea of what needs to be sorted out. If we can all reach a mutual understanding of the problems that face this forum, it will be a lot easier to solve them. Here's what I've been able to gather from the previous posts...

Problem One ::: ARROGANCE
Possible Solution ::: Perhaps a small reminder could be added underneath the Post Reply box, reminding users to leave their ego at the door. If that's to much to ask, those who feel strongly about the issue could post a respectful reminder in their signatures.

Problem Two ::: UNGRATEFULNESS (eg. DttDU)
Possible Solution ::: This is an issue that infects a few people. If we are able to pin-point these people, and respectfully bring it to their attention what the Theory 11 staff goes through to make this site happen, we might notice a difference.

Problem Three ::: LACK OF QUALITY POSTS
Possible Solution ::: The majority of Theory 11's customers tend to be younger, which sometimes leads to poor quality posts. If we are able to perhaps invite a few members who we know will spread the good quality bug, things may start to change. Another idea would be to have the Theory 11 Artists post in normal forum topics more often. Members will want to impress them so they'll increase their post quality.

That's all I have to say for know,

Peace.

I agree with everything in this post, so it gets:



I especially like the idea of the Artists posting more.
 
I was hopeful that this would become somewhere I really enjoyed sharing my knowledge of magic and performance art and learning from others as they shared, but so far that hasn't been the case. A lot of points made in the initial post point to why that might be, but there's plenty of points left to consider.

Threads of opinionated head-bashing rack up hundreds of replies and thousands of views, as do threads about the back design of Dan and Dave's cards and what Wayne Houchin's site might be.

Threads that would draw professional replies from professional magicians get lost before they have a chance. Asking for tips about scripting, using a pass in performance, getting a job working as a magician, etc...forget it. You'll get two or three replies and in four days your thread will be on the 3rd page, which is almost as good as gone.

I have similar complaints about people I've met in magic clubs...serious students are few and far between. Magic is a world of tinkerers, for the most part, not hard-working performers. There are very few honestly carrying the "Performance Art" torch in magic.

I post here because I have something to contribute from time to time, but I find myself drifting away from magic communities in general. The posts I've read in the last few hours have reminded me why that might be.

Pj

I should note that this is mostly directed to the general discussion forum, not the better but hugely less-travelled specialty forums.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
May 3, 2008
864
3
33
Singapore
www.youtube.com
I have similar complaints about people I've met in magic clubs...serious students are few and far between. Magic is a world of tinkerers, for the most part, not hard-working performers. There are very few honestly carrying the "Performance Art" torch in magic.

dude, chillax. not everyone here dreams of being the next big magic pro. I for one just do this for fun even though i put alot of time into it. Does that make me a tinkerer? I hope not.
I do agree with your point that stupid threads that whine and complain about things rack up the posts and ones that are more on topic and serious get thrown to page three and four. But what can we do about it? People are far more attracted to the c rap.

Also, i DO listen to alot of the advice you leave on these forums, so dont drift! people like me could use good ideas.

cheers
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jonraiker

vp of development
Team member
Aug 5, 2007
1,330
24
Florida
instagram.com
A ton of great ideas in this thread. You all get my Official Seal of Awesomeness. Only I call it my "Official Seal of Gangstaness"... cause that's how we roll.

We always welcome constructive criticism - but there's a huge difference between it and comments that just aren't helpful in anyway. Some examples:

Good Constructive Post: "I'm not sure if Death to the Double Undercut is necessarily worth $4.95. Granted, it's a cool method of controlling a card - but I prefer the double undercut. It's more simple, in my opinion. No biggie. We'll see what next weeks 1-on-1 has in store."

Bad Pointless Post:
"$5.00 for that?!?!? Theory11 loves ripping us off! Joel loves ripping us off! Everyone loves ripping us off! AHHHHHHHH..."

See the difference? If we keep things as constructive and respectful as possible, we can all work toward advancing the art of magic as much as possible. Rarely do we acknowledge posts like the bad example above.
 
Sep 1, 2007
655
1
Good Constructive Post: "I'm not sure if Death to the Double Undercut is necessarily worth $4.95. Granted, it's a cool method of controlling a card - but I prefer the double undercut. It's more simple, in my opinion. No biggie. We'll see what next weeks 1-on-1 has in store."

Bad Pointless Post:
"$5.00 for that?!?!? Theory11 loves ripping us off! Joel loves ripping us off! Everyone loves ripping us off! AHHHHHHHH..."

See the difference? If we keep things as constructive and respectful as possible, we can all work toward advancing the art of magic as much as possible. Rarely do we acknowledge posts like the bad example above.

Actually the first one was just watered down, the only thing wrong with the second post was the way you made it sound like some retard was posting it, if the first post would have been portrayed in that manner it would have been terrible.
 
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
A ton of great ideas in this thread. You all get my Official Seal of Awesomeness. Only I call it my "Official Seal of Gangstaness"... cause that's how we roll.

You've got to make that so we can all revel in the awesomeness. I could give you the Seal of Awesomeness for making an awesome seal, and you can give me the Seal of Gangstaness for being a gangsta, and I can give you the Seal of Awesomeness for giving me the seal of Gangstaness, and it can be a never ending, vicious cycle. :D
 
Aug 2, 2008
496
0
Cincinnati
I think one problem is the fact that there are so many established magicians who know their craft pretty well. So its hard for me, a beginner, to ask questions because most people on here act like I am idiot because I don't know something that is, in their eyes, basic. So normally I just scan the threads trying to pick up stuff here and there and normally don't say much.
 
Aug 31, 2007
369
0
Hartford, CT
I think one problem is the fact that there are so many established magicians who know their craft pretty well. So its hard for me, a beginner, to ask questions because most people on here act like I am idiot because I don't know something that is, in their eyes, basic. So normally I just scan the threads trying to pick up stuff here and there and normally don't say much.

...and that's a true disservice to you. :(

That shouldn't be. We are all in the same craft and even though some of us don't agree or even don't like someone else on this forum, it shouldn't scare a new magician off from asking questions.

Remember this, the1spaz, whether someone has been on the stage years and years or just learned how to swing cut, no one is better than anyone else here. It's all stuff we can all do with practice and knowledge.

And if someone gives you attitude, then don't feed into them. Someone here will answer your questions. There are quite a few knowledgable, non-self-important people here.
 
Aug 2, 2008
496
0
Cincinnati
Thanks. I appreciate that. I hope I didn't come off looking for people to feel sorry for me, I was just saying what I noticed. Thanks again.
 

jonraiker

vp of development
Team member
Aug 5, 2007
1,330
24
Florida
instagram.com
Actually the first one was just watered down, the only thing wrong with the second post was the way you made it sound like some retard was posting it, if the first post would have been portrayed in that manner it would have been terrible.
I think you missed my point exactly. Constructive posts (whether you consider them "watered down" or not) are written in a completely different format than non-constructive posts. Constructive posts actually have something of value. Non-constructive posts have nothing of value to add.

Make sense?
 
Sep 1, 2007
655
1
I think you missed my point exactly. Constructive posts (whether you consider them "watered down" or not) are written in a completely different format than non-constructive posts. Constructive posts actually have something of value. Non-constructive posts have nothing of value to add.

Make sense?

I didn't miss the point, it just seemed as if you were deeming a non-constructive post as a compliment and a constructive post as an insult...
 

jonraiker

vp of development
Team member
Aug 5, 2007
1,330
24
Florida
instagram.com
I didn't miss the point, it just seemed as if you were deeming a non-constructive post as a compliment and a constructive post as an insult...
Here are a couple other examples, to clarify:

Good Constructive Post: "Death to the Double Undercut is my least favorite 1-on-1 video thus far. The control just isn't worth $4.95. Definitely not up to par with the others. Step it up theory11."

Bad Non-Constructive Post: "Are you serious? Death to the Double Undercut blows. I don't think anyone with a brain would buy this. Ha."

See the difference? One was constructive. The other was not. The first clearly conveyed why the user disliked this particular 1-on-1 (isn't worth the price). The other just said "it blows". This time around I made sure both were grammatically correct, by the way.
 
Sep 1, 2007
655
1
Here are a couple other examples, to clarify:

Good Constructive Post: "Death to the Double Undercut is my least favorite 1-on-1 video thus far. The control just isn't worth $4.95. Definitely not up to par with the others. Step it up theory11."

Bad Non-Constructive Post: "Are you serious? Death to the Double Undercut blows. I don't think anyone with a brain would buy this. Ha."

See the difference? One was constructive. The other was not. The first clearly conveyed why the user disliked this particular 1-on-1 (isn't worth the price). The other just said "it blows". This time around I made sure both were grammatically correct, by the way.

Thank you, much better examples.
 
Aug 31, 2007
369
0
Hartford, CT
Thanks. I appreciate that. I hope I didn't come off looking for people to feel sorry for me, I was just saying what I noticed. Thanks again.

Don't worry, you didn't come off like that.

It's just sad that a couple of people on this forum gave you the impression to be quiet simply because you're new to the craft.

We should be welcoming new people. Not quieting them down.
 

Vastago

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2007
65
1
Mexico
I would like to say something...

the only thing i don't like about this site (in a constructive manner) is the fanboys.

I agree that we should be thankful for a lot of stuff, but (please!! i beg you!) DO NOT forget that this place its and ONLINE store TOO... its a business... o.k.? so as costumers, we have the right to express our thoughts about prices, quality of the product and SHIPPING...

Some of you portray T11 as a magnificent GOD... a god that all of us should glorify, i think thats not the case.

Thanks for reading....
 
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