Hype...

[Twozwozer]

I had a random thought and it got me thinking.....

Hype.

We all know, sometimes it's our friend and sometimes it can be our worst enemy.

A recent example of hype was with the Ellusionist, Coin In Bottles. It was just so funny to watch this hype grow and grow. And Ellusionist didnt say anything about it and just let the forum members do all the work them selves, it was amazing to see this.

Another time as Ive seen this, is with a certain site...erm.... www.whatistheory11.com That was probably the best hype Ive seen. It was so clever. And kept everyone wanting more.

The last Hype I got sucked into (besides Theory11) was (E) Loops DVDs. I got sucked into those and bought the set the day they came out. But when I got them I realised they didnt really fit my magic stlye and the Loops show up really bad against my skin (I really need to go on holiday) From that I learnt my lesson, and I now know to research a product before jumping the gun

Heres a few questions I though we could discuss.

Do you like to "hype" things? If not, why?

What was your worst/best thing you have ever bought thanks to hype?

And Why do we hype things?

Cheers, Tom

 

[MoonlightKnight]

Hype is, as you said, the double edged battle axe of the literal world. It's a horrible word I think. I believe it to be... ... ... Clever marketting. Unfortunetly some sites get the marketting without any need of help. They just give out key words and it just grabs some people and makes them do things. It's incredible if you've ever seen someone who is effected by these keywords because they go crazy for whatever is being marketted! The problem is, we all have these words. They're like, embedded on us. Magicians especially. If you hear someone say "Dude, greatest torn and restored card of all time, and it's only $25!" Sometimes it really just hits you! I know it got me... Of course, I wasn't dissapointed! Haha. But the point is we all have our weak points and marketting is just a way of making their product look as good as they think it deserves. I think it's a great idea, but "hype" is always something to be cautious about.

PS Whatistheory11 was the greatest hype build I've ever seen... But wasn't it worth it?

 

[Steerpike]

So Ellusionist's CIBs were the worst example of hype, and Theory-11 was the best.

I'm going to need an hour or two to figure that one out.

Hype is becoming a dirty word very quickly, and I can't say I approve. If it's not becoming a dirty word, it's certainly becoming a double standard. When companies you don't like hype things up, they're b******s. When companies you like hype things up, they're geniuses.

Hype comes down to the one thing that powers capitalism in an age of manipulation over information: glamour.

Hype is more of a verb in my mind. It's the process of creating the noun of glamour. And glamour is what makes what you have better than everyone else's. Glamour is why some newbies trick themselves into thinking they should only buy from Ellusionist. It's what has lead to the massive political fighting here at Theory 11 despite the intentions of making it a unifying community. It's what made David Copperfield huge and what led to Dan Army's fall from grace.

Granted, these are overly simplistic summaries of what's going on, but glamour is at the root.

And to my experience, people who whine the most about hype are the ones who are the most gullible and liable to be affected by glamour. So when they complain, they're being victims. When they want hype stopped, they're trying to get the magic community to deliver all of us from their own temptation.

 

[Twozwozer]

So Ellusionist's CIBs were the worst example of hype, and Theory-11 was the best.

I'm going to need an hour or two to figure that one out.

[\QUOTE]

Whoops, Typo, Nah, it was a really good example of hype.

Cheers, Tom

 

[NlightN]

ive never been tricked by hype, i actually get surprised if things i buy live up to their hype.

when i hear many great things i become very skeptical. hype is like politicians, promise many great things but rarely deliver

 

[Twozwozer]

ive never been tricked by hype, i actually get surprised if things i buy live up to their hype.

when i hear many great things i become very skeptical. hype is like politicians, promise many great things but rarely deliver

Has there been a product so far, that you have gotten that lives up to its hype?

Cheers, Tom

 

[Farrell]

Nothing ever lives up to hype, nothing ever in history ever has it's a sad fact of life, if you find a product as good as people said it would be you deserve something special.

 

[Tyler Johnson]

Has there been a product so far, that you have gotten that lives up to its hype?

Cheers, Tom

Well, Digital Dissolve lived up to it's marketing. It is easy, it does look awesome and it does fool spectators completely. Plus you can do lots more with the trick which is great!

Nothing ever lives up to hype, nothing ever in history ever has it's a sad fact of life, if you find a product as good as people said it would be you deserve something special.

First of all, we need to get our definition of hype to mean the same thing. What I mean is one person thinks hype means marketing, one person thinks hype means representing something as "awesome", when it isn't.

So, let's define it right now so we can go forward in this discussion correctly.

hype:
-verb
1. to stimulate, excite, or agitate
2. to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods;
3. to intensify (advertising, promotion, or publicity) by ingenious or questionable claims, methods, etc.
4. to trick; gull.
–noun
5. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
6. an ingenious or questionable claim, method, etc., used in advertising, promotion, or publicity to intensify the effect.
7. a swindle, deception, or trick.

(Taken from Dictionary.com)

Here we see that to "hype" means to convey that a trick is something that it's not. To convey that it's better than it really is. So, it's sort of, exaggerating the truth to make something seem impossible, when the method is either impractical or stupid. Take Kevin James trick "The Ultimate Card Through Window", you watch the video and the trick looks amazing! Looks like the card is actually going through the window! BUT, the trick is completely impractical and stupid in it's methodology.

Let's define marketing now.

marketing:
-noun
1. the act of buying or selling in a market.
2. the total of activities involved in the transfer of goods from the producer or seller to the consumer or buyer, including advertising, shipping, storing, and selling.

(Taken from Dictionary.com)

So, shown by this definition, marketing is advertising. Telling somebody about your product. It doesn't say exaggerating about your product, it's just telling someone about your product.

The question is, is hype wrong?

My answer would have to be YES. HYPE IS WRONG. Hype, by it's definition, is basically lying about something to make it seem better so that lots of people buy it! This is wrong!

If hype is wrong, what about advertising?

Advertising is just fine! Nothing wrong with advertising, as long as the facts ARE NOT stretched to make your product seem better. If you're product is good, you don't have to lie about it and it will sell fine! If your trick sucks, then don't sell it! Don't hype! Keep that in mind!

Anyway, I've talked long enough I believe. This is a huge post! (lol) Hope this clears things up now that we've defined hype and marketing. Peace!

Tyler

 

[Steerpike]

The question is, is hype wrong?

My answer would have to be YES. HYPE IS WRONG. Hype, by it's definition, is basically lying about something to make it seem better so that lots of people buy it! This is wrong!

If hype is wrong, what about advertising?

Advertising is just fine! Nothing wrong with advertising, as long as the facts ARE NOT stretched to make your product seem better. If you're product is good, you don't have to lie about it and it will sell fine! If your trick sucks, then don't sell it! Don't hype! Keep that in mind!

It's naive to think hyping something is wrong but advertising isn't. You fail to understand that advertising is not based on information anymore, but manipulation.

Here's an example of hype: the fiend skull. Even if you don't know who The Misfits are, you've seen this:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=fiend+skull&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

And do you know who the master of hype in the 20th century was? Harry Houdini.

You're problem is that you're going entirely by definition nubmer 4, and disregarding the rest of it. Let's analyze.

1. to stimulate, excite, or agitate

So getting people excited is bad. Advertising must be clinical, sterile, and narrated by Ben Stein.

2. to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods;

Flamboyancy is bad, too. That means that every novel publicity stunt ever done to generate interest in something was wrong.

3. to intensify (advertising, promotion, or publicity) by ingenious or questionable claims, methods, etc.

Notice the conjunction "or" as opposed to "and". These are very important and different words, but apparently you skipped English class when they explained that. So being ingenious is also bad, so therefore when advertising we must not only be rock stupid, but assume that everyone else is dumber than us... Actually given current trends in advertising that's not too far from the truth.

The trouble with idealists is that they zero in on what they want to see and disregard that which contradicts them.

 

[Tyler Johnson]

It's naive to think hyping something is wrong but advertising isn't. You fail to understand that advertising is not based on information anymore, but manipulation.

Here's an example of hype: the fiend skull. Even if you don't know who The Misfits are, you've seen this:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=fiend+skull&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

And do you know who the master of hype in the 20th century was? Harry Houdini.

You're problem is that you're going entirely by definition nubmer 4, and disregarding the rest of it. Let's analyze.

1. to stimulate, excite, or agitate
So getting people excited is bad. Advertising must be clinical, sterile, and narrated by Ben Stein.

2. to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods;

Flamboyancy is bad, too. That means that every novel publicity stunt ever done to generate interest in something was wrong.

3. to intensify (advertising, promotion, or publicity) by ingenious or questionable claims, methods, etc.

Notice the conjunction "or" as opposed to "and". These are very important and different words, but apparently you skipped English class when they explained that. So being ingenious is also bad, so therefore when advertising we must not only be rock stupid, but assume that everyone else is dumber than us... Actually given current trends in advertising that's not too far from the truth.

The trouble with idealists is that they zero in on what they want to see and disregard that which contradicts them.

Actually, you're defining terms completely wrong. I didn't disregard every definition but number 4.

1. to stimulate, excite, or agitate

All these words blend together to create the definition. Hype is to stimulate in an exciting manner that agitates the buyer.

Meaning of
agitate: to move or force into violent, irregular action.

So this is good to do to a buyer? No. You're not reading into the actual definitions of the words used. Apparently you skipped English class when they explained the way to define a word is to actually know the meanings of the words that define it. If you stimulate or excite or agitate past the boundaries of the actual tricks method, then it's wrong.

2. to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods;

You talk about me singling out things and only seeing what I want to see. You singled out flamboyant and completely skipped dramatic. But since you don't want me to single out, I'll go through both.

Meaning of
flamboyant: strikingly bold or brilliant; showy.

You missed what I meant in my post. It's fine to advertise something boldly or brilliantly, but if it sucks then you don't! Here's a line from Jeff Dunham that I think perfectly fits this, "Polish a turd it's still a turd!". So, it's being all showy with something that isn't. It's lying about it that's wrong! Dramatic goes along the same lines of what I just said in this paragraph.

3. to intensify (advertising, promotion, or publicity) by ingenious or questionable claims, methods, etc.

Once again, to intensify. Meaning of
intensify: to make intense or more intense.

If you intensify your advertising past the point of showing what the actual trick is like, then that is wrong. You make is seem like it's better than it really is!

Meaning of
ingenious:
1. characterized by cleverness or originality of invention or construction.
2. cleverly inventive or resourceful.

The way ingenious is used in this definition is to say, if you ingeniously use advertising to make the trick seem more amazing, then that's hype. It is ingenious to hype something up, you'll get more sales! But, it is WRONG because you're lying and making the trick seem like more than it actually is!

You should really learn your definitions and terms before arguing a point and you should also understand the point of the person you're arguing against. I'm going to put my point right out here in plain terms.

Hype is wrong if the advertising goes over the top and makes a trick look like more than it actually is. Advertising is fine if it actually shows the trick for what it is (i.e. shows how the trick is actually performed in front of a spectator, SPOV).

There's my point, plain, simple, and logical.

Tyler

 

[Farrell]

Guys you are quoting the dictionary, this has gone far enough, hype is false, end of.

 

[Electron John]

Magic sites like E and T11 are run by magicians and magicians are masters at fooling people. And when you are dealing with creators of magic as well you have to realize these guys are very, very clever people. They can come up with ways to make people think that a card is being ripped in quarters and then restored magically or that they can make a coin enter a sealed bottle. Just because we the consumers of magic are also magicians does not mean we can not also be manipulated with clever wording and images in teasers, etc.

Yes I have been drawn in a number of times with magic hype, sometimes it is very hard not to especially when everyone else is joining in with the excitement. People love the anticipation of things (events, gifts, food, sex, new magic effects, etc.) often times more than the actual thing itself. Any marketer of magic effects knows this and does not really have to do much to encourage it, although they often go overboard to encourage it.

What we have to do as magicians is to just take a moment to think before we buy the latest, greatest, strongest magic effect. Just ask yourself do I really need this effect? Do I really need to know another way to tear and restore a card? Do I really need to know another way to make a coin disappear and reappear?

I have all three AoA books, Bobo's Modern Coin Magic, plus at least another dozen magic books packed with great magic effects, not to mention at least 20 DVD with at least 100 other great magic effects. Until I have practiced and learned all those effects well enough to preform and have bored everyone I know with them, which would take decades if ever, I really do not need any new magic. It took me long enough to realize that but at least I did figured it out eventually.

So in theory (theory 12?) I should never buy another magic effect again. But in reality I am still human and still have that little boy hidden inside me that can not wait for X-mas. So I will break down every 3-6 months and buy the latest, greatest, strongest magic effect ever to hit the scene just for the fun of it. But at least I understand what is going on.

 

[Steerpike]

You should really learn your definitions and terms before arguing a point and you should also understand the point of the person you're arguing against. I'm going to put my point right out here in plain terms.

Ironic, because my point has sailed clear over your head.

It was all a roundabout way of telling you that quoting the dictionary as an argument is asinine and intellectually offensive.

It sounds to me like you bought into the hype machine, got burned, and now you want to deliver the rest of us from your temptation. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, because in my experience the ones who complain the most about hype and marketing are the ones who got burned by it.

I've been seduced to see movies because the trailers looked promising, then the movie turned out to suck. But I'm not going to boycott trailers because they're dishonest and only show you the good parts of what may otherwise be a crappy movie.

 

[AndyAce]

Hype is wrong if the advertising goes over the top and makes a trick look like more than it actually is. Advertising is fine if it actually shows the trick for what it is (i.e. shows how the trick is actually performed in front of a spectator, SPOV).

There's my point, plain, simple, and logical.

Tyler has a great point here.

Hype is wrong if it provides false information about the product.

I've been seduced to see movies because the trailers looked promising, then the movie turned out to suck. But I'm not going to boycott trailers because they're dishonest and only show you the good parts of what may otherwise be a crappy movie.

If the movie trailer show me a SUPER COOL action scene and then FAILED to show that same scene in the actual movie, I will boycott the trailers.

The point is, if hype shows people FALSE informations, then there is something wrong with it.

I don't mind if it just shows you the "good stuff". In fact that is what advertisment is about, showing people the good stuff.

 

[Steerpike]

Hype is wrong if it provides false information about the product.

The term for that is, appropriately enough, false advertising.

Regular marketing can do that, just as hype can. The idea that hype is inherently bad is a view espoused by the weak-minded.

I don't mind if it just shows you the "good stuff". In fact that is what advertisment is about, showing people the good stuff.

Take a look at those Bowflex commercials. Most of the people who buy that are never going to look like the steroid mutants on the ads. It's just not going to happen. I could work out like Jerry and Doyle from The Misfits, but I'm not going to look like them. At best, I'd look like a werewolf.

But therein lies the rub. Bowflex gets you excited about their product by showing the Incredible Hulk using their machines to work out. That is hype by definition. Without saying a word, they are telling you that the product must be good because it's being used by these American Gladiator look-alikes. You, the viewer, fill in the blanks.

Consequently, some people actually demanded the ads be taken off the air, because they weren't able to tranform themselves into a clone of Brick McLargeHuge from the TV adverts. I'm not clever enough to make this up... Actually, I take that back, yes I am. But this is true.

Who's the wanker in this situation? The unpleasant truth that nobody wants to hear is that the majority of hype occurs in your own mind. Good advertising plays up the strengths and makes light of the weaknesses. You fill in the gaps based on the sample you're given.

 

[VJmagicMan]

i can honestly say that i always wait for reviews and stuff before i buy a product. The only effect i bought the day it cam out was indecent by w:h, and im happy with it. But with E's coin in bottle effect, for example, the hype and preview videos made me want to buy them but i didnt because they just dont fit my stlyle. My advice, even if the "hype" may be truly what you the customer are looking for, wait a little to read some faqs before you buy it so you dont end up being dissapointed with your purchase and thinking that the product was hyped to much. Hyping it is part of the company's job to help sell their product, and it has certainly worked for many.