Is revealing magic tricks on Youtube legal???

[theworstmagician]

Many Youtubers out there are revealing magic tricks from Penguin magic, Ellusionist and T11...
Was wondering If that is legal??? They are not providing the same video download but still Isnt it unethical.(think SOO...)

AND THEN THERE ARE PEOPLE MANY FROM THIS FORUM (DONT WANNA TAKE NAMES.....) do fake tutorials and reveals wasting everyone's time!!!!!I'm pretty sure they wont be getting any S#!t. The reason I hate them is because Ones I saw a fake tutorial of a trick with gimmick as I was going around reading reviews of that trick(was gonna buy it) but when I saw that video I dropped the Idea...(IT was Sub Rosa) and even cursed at Jason but later came to know how wonderful It actually was....
THANKS

 

[JChili]

I don't think it would be illegal, but people shouldn't reveal tricks that cost money on something like YouTube.

 

[j.bayme]

I don't think it would be illegal, but people shouldn't reveal tricks that cost money on something like YouTube.

It's very easy to protect a finished, creative work - like a song, a video, a design, or a script. Those things are easily copyrighted - which is why you can't upload an episode of Seinfeld to YouTube without feeling the wrath of its rightful owners. That said, it's somewhat difficult to protect an IDEA - such as a method for a magic trick. With few exceptions, that stuff is more difficult to protect, as it's not a simple "copyright infringement" issue (that is, the person isn't directly posting a copyrighted final video they didn't create, on YouTube). There are some legal means to protect ideas of the sort - most recently evidenced by Teller (of Penn & Teller) successfully protecting his "Shadows" routine.

One thing is very clear: it's obviously unethical. Creators base on their lives, livelihoods, and families on sale of their original ideas - their creations - so every exposure video that prevents someone from buying it and learning it FROM them, hurts them - and seriously so. These creators spend hours each day working on new ideas, and their only compensation to support themselves and their family is sales of their work - so, exposure truly, seriously, actually hurts.

At theory11, we push hard (and invest a lot of time and resources) to be a leader on both fronts. With copyright infringement, we take violations very seriously - and we pursue copyright infringement activity to the maximum extent possible by law. Whenever you see any of our videos posted without permission - please, absolutely, let us know! In terms of videos that simply expose tricks, one of the few ways we can mitigate that is by making it EASIER to buy the real thing than it is to steal it (by watching an unauthorized video on YouTube).

Those "fake exposure" videos started off as a lighthearted activity, but they make a REAL, positive difference in making it more difficult for people to find "real" exposure videos - having to watch multiple fake ones before ever landing on an actual method. That helps the creator by making it more difficult to steal their work than it is to buy it. And in the end - that helps protect their work and discourage learning from improper sources.

 

[Justin.Morris]

Many Youtubers out there are revealing magic tricks from Penguin magic, Ellusionist and T11...
Was wondering If that is legal??? They are not providing the same video download but still Isnt it unethical.(think SOO...)

AND THEN THERE ARE PEOPLE MANY FROM THIS FORUM (DONT WANNA TAKE NAMES.....) do fake tutorials and reveals wasting everyone's time!!!!!I'm pretty sure they wont be getting any S#!t. The reason I hate them is because Ones I saw a fake tutorial of a trick with gimmick as I was going around reading reviews of that trick(was gonna buy it) but when I saw that video I dropped the Idea...(IT was Sub Rosa) and even cursed at Jason but later came to know how wonderful It actually was....
THANKS

Heh that Subrosa one was probably mine lol. I'm glad you have discovered how great it really is! Basically you are right, it's very unethical to expose secrets on YouTube as JB pointed out. But if we can together help make a difference for the magicians who are choosing to share and sell their work with the world- it's so worthwhile. Next time there's a fake reveal contest you should make an entry! It helps, it's fun, and you get a lot of views! Heh

 

[ScottH5]

Whether or not it's unethical is up for grabs. There is plenty of room for argument here. And often, as we see here, folks like to argue that something is unethical on the basis of what is legal or illegal in other realms. The fact of the matter is that there is no interesting correlation between ethicality and legality. If it became legal to punch a random stranger in the face, that wouldn't make it ethical to do so. One simply cannot draw conclusions about what is or isn't ethical from the law of the land. Sane people realize this.

When it comes to what is and isn't ethical, matters are complicated. Some distinguish between ethics and morality. In my experience, most experienced magicians want to try to draw this distinction. As I see things, it would be better to describe this distinction as one between a "professional code of conduct" and "ethicality/morality". And so drawn, "professional codes of conduct" need not track moral/ethical norms or legal norms.

The extent to which the standard professional magi's "code of conduct" tracks moral/ethical norms is up for debate. The extent to which it tracks legal norms is not so much up for debate (it doesn't track them at all.) Whether or not legal norms should track widely accepted moral/ethical norms is also up for debate.

The simplistic argument that you're costing someone something by doing something, and so what you're doing is bad, doesn't hold water. But this is usually the argument you get. And we just got it.

 

[chase l.]

Im sad to say that I believe it is not illegal to post the secrets behind a magicians trick unless the trick or gimmick has somehow been copyrighted or patented, this is separate from figuring out a trick yourself and sharing how to do it, which is legal in ever way. I, however, do not support either of these actions. It is a completely unethical act, and it should at least try to be explained to those who release the real reveal videos. The fake ones are hilarious.

 

[ScottH5]

Im sad to say that I believe it is not illegal to post the secrets behind a magicians trick unless the trick or gimmick has somehow been copyrighted or patented, this is separate from figuring out a trick yourself and sharing how to do it, which is legal in ever way. I, however, do not support either of these actions. It is a completely unethical act, and it should at least try to be explained to those who release the real reveal videos. The fake ones are hilarious.

By "unethical" I take you to mean something like: "it violates the magi's professional code of conduct." On that score, I agree with you. But it's by no means obvious that it's morally wrong to run afoul of some professional codes of ethical conduct. Running afoul of a professional code of conduct might not help you advance in that profession, but you might well be an immoral/unethical person if you adhere to some professional codes of conduct!

I don't like cheap YouTube reveals. But let's not confuse ethicality/legality with the magicians professional code of conduct.

 

[RealityOne]

Whether or not it's unethical is up for grabs.

I disagree. To be blatently honest, the rest of your post is what passes on the internet as pseudo-intellectualism but in fact is nothing more than meaningless drivel. Yes, there is a distinction between ethics, morality and codes of conduct - but those distinctions are meaningless here. Exposing other people's effects is immoral, unethical and against magician's code of conduct.

1. Morality - Morality is the belief in actions that are intrinsically right or wrong. It is wrong to steal the creative work of others. By teaching other people's creative work in exchange for Youtube "views" (which may translate into profits for you) is stealing the creative work of others for your profit. Is it any different if you took something written by someone else and submitted it to a magazine for publication and got paid for it?

2. Ethics - Ethics are the guidelines necessary for a group of people (a corporation, a profession or society at large) to best function. Ethics is based on a desire for everyone in the group to act in a manner that doesn't disadvantage others in the group. Much of ethics is based in morality (the duty to tell the truth) and many ethical cannons are incorporated into codes of conuct. Posting tutorials of other people's creative work is unethical because it causes disadvantages for magicians. It hurts those who publish the material by depriving them of revenue. It hurts those who purchase the material because it devalues the purchase. It hurts magic in general because it exposes methods used by magicians for effects they perform AND because it focuses spectators on looking for the method (i.e. challenge or puzzle magic) in other tricks rather than enjoying the impossibility of the effect. It also hurts people who learn magic off of Youtube because the teaching really isn't that good -- the teaching values the exposure of secrets rather than the presentation of the effect. It also hurts magicians because the best material is unlikely to be released -- some of that ends up in books but most of it is kept secret.

3. Code of Conduct - Revealing effects on Youtube under the guise of "tutorials" is still exposure to lay people and is against the magician's code of conduct.

4. Legality - As JB said, as long as you don't post the copywrited video, you aren't violating the law. Posting those original T11 or E or L&L videos or worst yet, streaming those videos (either being the one who purchased it and made it available or someone downloading it) is illegal.

 

[ScottH5]

I disagree. To be blatently honest, the rest of your post is what passes on the internet as pseudo-intellectualism]...

Actually, no. I basically made the point that this is a controversial matter about which reasonable people can and do often disagree. And that's clearly true. I didn't pronounce, at all, on what was or wasn't ethical.

 

[mmasque]

Heh that Subrosa one was probably mine lol. I'm glad you have discovered how great it really is! Basically you are right, it's very unethical to expose secrets on YouTube as JB pointed out. But if we can together help make a difference for the magicians who are choosing to share and sell their work with the world- it's so worthwhile. Next time there's a fake reveal contest you should make an entry! It helps, it's fun, and you get a lot of views! Heh

Okay so now I get why there are all those links "revealing" t11 magic tricks. I found it odd, now I find it hilarious! I also think making these videos helps keep "muggles" away from the secrets that make magic amazing and unique.

 

[Tower of Lunatic Meat]

Okay so now I get why there are all those links "revealing" t11 magic tricks. I found it odd, now I find it hilarious! I also think making these videos helps keep "muggles" away from the secrets that make magic amazing and unique.

That's the spirit!

Looking forward to seeing your entry when they do a fake reveal contest again!