Magicians Suck

[Josh Burch]

Josh:

Why do you ask the spectator that question? If they believe the cards are lost, having them say it doesn't make them believe it any more. However, it does, by negative implication, suggest a method -- "what if the cards aren't lost in the deck?" If they don't believe the cards are lost because you've done some of that hocus pocus, prestigiditation, "hands are quicker than your eyes" thing they will either lie (being polite while thinking the cards aren't lost) or challenge you.

If I was doing something like that, I would ask them "do you have any idea where the cards are in the deck?" The answer is going to be "no." My response would be "neither do I... that is what makes this interesting."

My script for one effect is as follows:

Me: Do you play cards?
Spectator: Occasionally.
Me: Do you always win?
Spectator: Not always.
Me: Do you cheat?
Spectator: No.
Me: That explains why you don't always win [this gets a laugh from the spectator and the audience].
Me: I want you to shuffle this deck till your heart's content.
Spectator [shuffles the deck]
Me: Are you done?
Spectator: Yes.
Me: [in a sincere voice] Is your heart content?
Spectator: [pauses, smiles and then says] Yes..
Me: Perfect. Perfect. I would like you to select one card, it doesn't matter which one you take.
Spectator: [selects one card]
Me: Can you tell everyone what you picked and show the audience your card.
Spectator: Ten of Diamond [as they show the card]
Me: Please put it back in the deck.
Spectator [puts it back in the deck]
Me: Can you hold the deck, I don't want to even touch the cards. Actually, put the deck pack in the box and hold on to it

The audience remembers that the spectator shuffled the deck, picked a card, put it back in and then put the deck in the box. They are thinking the trick is about to begin... but everything is already done. I don't ask "do you want to change your card" or "is this fair" and I don't make any statements "you could have picked any card you wanted but you freely selected one card" or "the deck is really shuffled so there is no way I could anyway influence your selection?" It just isn't necessary.

My script goes something like this.

Me: I need a couple cards for this, could you please call stop as run through the deck.
Participant: Stop
Me: Well you stopped me on an ace not to bad, and here are the other three. (I produce the 4 aces) Now you've found them once we'll see if lightning can strike twice and you can do it again. The idea is to track the aces, watch where they go in (I slowly and deliberately place the "Aces" into four positions in the deck) because in a moment you are going to follow your instincts and find the aces again. Do you think you can do it?
Participant: I don't know

(The participant then proceeds to "cut to the aces" with my guidance)

I never say "Do you believe that the cards are in the middle of the deck?" but I do everything but ask. With the stress on the participant I feel like I could easily ask them point blank if they'd like to shuffle, with their neck on the line I'm confident that they will decline.

 

[hammondedward9]

My apologies Josh! Had I known the full set up to the situation I wouldn't have bet. If the shoe were on the other foot though...

 

[Josh Burch]

My apologies Josh! Had I known the full set up to the situation I wouldn't have bet. If the shoe were on the other foot though...

Yeah, I set you up in an unfair way. I apologize, I still don't agree with all you said but that's not a bad thing.

 

[RealityOne]

I never say "Do you believe that the cards are in the middle of the deck?" but I do everything but ask. With the stress on the participant I feel like I could easily ask them point blank if they'd like to shuffle, with their neck on the line I'm confident that they will decline.

That makes sense. You are showing rather than telliing.

I think asking them if they want to shuffle is overkill. If you've shown them that the cards are lost in the deck, there is no reason to add an additional procedure into the routine.

I'm also not a big fan of giving spectators choices. If you ask them about shuffling in this routine, what if in the next routine the spectator asks if they can shuffle?

My take away from Edward's posts is that you want to structure your presentation to make it difficult spectator proof. I think part of that is being in control by showing the spectators what you want them to see when you want them to see it and then not making a big deal out of it. Some of that is design, some of that is scripting and some of that is persona -- people are less likely to be difficult if they like you or if you project a sense of prestige.

 

[Josh Burch]

I think asking them if they want to shuffle is overkill. If you've shown them that the cards are lost in the deck, there is no reason to add an additional procedure into the routine.

I agree, I mentioned that because I still don't believe that most spectators would ask to shuffle as Edward implied. I still don't think he handled the situation in an ideal or even a good way, but that is fine and we can disagree on what it means to be a good audience.

I'm also not a big fan of giving spectators choices. If you ask them about shuffling in this routine, what if in the next routine the spectator asks if they can shuffle?

I completely agree, if you ask your audience it it was a free selection you better be ready for them to say yes or no. If you ask them if they believe that the cards are mixed you need to be prepared for them to say know. If you offer to use someones deck, you should be prepared to.

 

[Justin.Morris]

Good insight in the video Josh. Just because we can see what's going on, it certainly doesn't mean that we should blab it or try to prove that we are somehow superior.

We need tact.

Unless someone has invited feedback, (or accepts an offer for it) then we will be rude by giving it. I mentioned in another place that in every performance I can see things I would do differently. But who cares? If I have advice to offer, I ask first for sure, and if needed, like you said, I would do so privately. But when I'm out with people and a magician comes by the table, I just enjoy it, even if I see many problems.

 

[Josh Burch]

We need tact.

Unless someone has invited feedback, (or accepts an offer for it) then we will be rude by giving it. I mentioned in another place that in every performance I can see things I would do differently. But who cares? If I have advice to offer, I ask first for sure, and if needed, like you said, I would do so privately. But when I'm out with people and a magician comes by the table, I just enjoy it, even if I see many problems.

This is exactly my feeling

 

[japanHEARTvince]

With so many different schools and styles it is hard to say any one way is right. Magic belongs to us all.

 

[hammondedward9]

Justin,

I guess I just don't see it as a, "lack of tact" to call someone out who's having a conversation with me. It would be like if someone was talking out their ass to impress others about something which they really couldn't do (and I knew for a fact.)
I just want to keep it real.

Edward

 

[japanHEARTvince]

Funny you say "keep it real". Is that not the best way to disarm an audience naturally? By being (or seeming to be) the most natural yourself. You are not "doing a trick" so much as you are being what you are - a magician. I think anyways.

 

[Justin.Morris]

It would really depend on the situation to be honest. If you're trying to put someone in their place at a club meeting, verses blasting a guy who is performing at an event or restaurant, or if it's just a guy who wants to show you and your friends some magic - each situation is different - each needs it's own tact. If someone wants your feedback, then by all means. But if you just saw a performers sloppy pass because you didn't fall for his misdirection, it is in poor taste to call him out on it in front of everyone , or to interrupt his show. To do that would make you look bad - not him. Just because you CAN say something, doesn't mean that you SHOULD say it. It also depends on like Josh and I said, - HOW you say it is also of huge importance. You have to ask yourself, what's your goal? If it's to make them a better magician, then calling them out in front of everyone is't going to be the best way - likely that will only discourage them. I don't know if you have kids yet, but people learn best through positive reinforcement "That was a great start, next time to make it even more deceptive, you can _____" And of course in the right place and time too. It's social etiquette. Of course harshness can work, but again in the right setting.

If you have ever had a teacher or a coach or a mentor who is harsh, that is great. We love that because they are invited to criticize us. They need us to really get it, and we have accepted (even if just in our minds) they are in a position to hold us accountable. If some guy off the street starts talking to me like my coach, then he's a jerk. He hasn't earned the right to do that. People will just be defensive and stop listening and shift blame. It's the whole fight or flight reaction - not the best way to help others.

If you want to share your opinions with others (for more reason than to just toot your own horn), then makes sure you have earned the right to be heard. You can't assume that because they are performing that they want to listen to feedback from a stranger.

In the vein of the thread, this comedy bit touches a bit on one guys thoughts on speculating method - so funny: