Mechanic-Daniel Madison/Foundations-Jason England

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MOD, Jun 29, 2014.

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  1. Hello guys,
    So i want learn cheating techniques and false dealing .Two best rated DVD's available on cheating techniques are "Mechanic-Daniel Madison and Foundations-Jason England" but i don't which one i should choose.I want learn basics like bottom dealing and center dealing etc. can any one please give a brief review comparing both DVD's.

    My friend has both DVD's.He said Jason England and Daniel Madison use different grips for dealing.Also from the trailer Jason England's bottom dealing look much more natural (you can't tell the difference between his fair dealing and false dealing at all, like never ever) but Daniel Madison had this weird swinging motion while bottom dealing which i think is suspicious(OR may be he is using it for covering sensitive angles).Again i am not an expert please help....
     
  2. I won't say who deals better - simply because I'm not an expert so I can't decide. I will say, however, that I have plenty of Jason's videos and his experience can be noticed easily, his techniques are flawless and he does a great job explaining them. I'm not saying that he is better than DM, but I do think that you can't go wrong with Foundations.

    Hope this helps!
     
    ParkinT likes this.
  3. Hi friend, I have both and I would recommend Jason England for learning the basics as Daniel Madison uses very advanced techniques as I would recommended learning from Jason England first and then Daniel Madison to see what style and technique suits you better. As for the grips try not to copy the ones you see as it's best to develop your own grip and what works for your hand style and size and don't worry about how natural it looks because you will then integrate the grip you've developed into your general magic and as it becomes natural for you, no one will ever question the way you hold your deck of cards. Hope I've helped, Good Luck! :D
     
  4. I recommend Mechanic. The first disk covers deals, and the second covers palming, stealing cards, false shuffles, etc. The reason I recommend Daniel's as far as the deals go, is because his versions all look exactly the same. you don't have to constantly change the grip when you go from a second deal to a bottom deal.
     
  5. Daniel teaches his own technique and encourages you to develope your own. He goes into detail about the psychology behind his techniques but really only teaches his techniques. Mechanic is a great DVD set if you want to learn what Daniel does and believe me it's good stuff. Jason on the other hand is one of the best teachers and card technicians out there. With Foundations you will not only learn the moves but the history behind them and how they have evolved. If you're just starting out I would recommend getting Foundations then after you have a good foundation (see what I did there?) and have practiced a bunch then get Mechanic and learn how to put it to "good" use.

    p.s. You'll soon learn that the center deal is not one of the "basics" ;)
     
  6. Jason England, any day.

    Just a quick search through reviews will show you the difference.

    Jason teaches well, does not spend fisr 15 minutes talking about how he got caught cheating and got beaten up. Teaches general sleights as well as his own take.

    And most importantly, there is no false premise to the Foundations DVD.

    It tells you right what you get: Foundations.

    It does not claim to teach you gambling techniques used in "High stakes" games.

    The mechanic claims that and any card player will tell you why you cannot use the stuff on their for gambling.
     
  7. Who plays card games where you deal?
    Seriously most people play Hold Em which is dealt by a dealer.

    Cheating in hold em would not involve dealing.
    Just something to consider.
     

  8. in informal games were everybody takes turns dealing or you get a job as a dealer and cheat for one person.
    Obviously this kind of stuff doesn't work at casinos but cheating is still big in undergroud poker games.
     
  9. I have both and I love mechanic. I find it much better, the details are perfect and the grip remains the same which is perfect. He also goes into applications for magic which I love, don't get me wrong foundations is good but Mechanic is better. Sure you could start out with foundations BUT, it will be very hard to change your bottom or second deal if your already used to Jasons grip.
     

  10. Problems are:

    1) Value for money (The whole three hour thing, if you cut out the madison story does not remain true)
    2) Marketed as a gambling cheat guide (Does not even come close to material put out by Forte and others. Many sleights are useless at the card table)
    3) Jason is a better teacher. Just look at people on Ellusionist forums complaining about how they cannot deal a single card from mechanic grip (And E removes everything negative - imagine what was not posted).

    You personally found it better. But the general opinion on various forums, with reviewers etc. is that Mechanic is not worth it.

    Jason England is a RENOWNED card handler who knows FORTE personally, Just looking at both trailers give one an idea:

    Which one has artistic shots and over-used cinematography to hide the thiness of the material
    and which one shows the proper arsenal of techniques with no false marketing and promises of making you a card cheat good enough for the card table
     
    ChrisWiens likes this.
  11. To me, the distinction is clear. If you want to learn Daniel Madison's techniques then buy Mechanic. If, however, you want to learn techniques drawn from classic sleight-of-hand literature and based on intimate knowledge of gaming then buy Foundations. If you want to learn everything there is to learn, buy both.
     
  12. Jason england's foundations is a very good video but in his video he states the bottom deal is the most important gambling move and Daniel Madison has the best most full proof bottom deal. Yes it does take much more practice but the result is much better then Jason's Bottom Deal
     
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  14. Daniel Madison shouldn't even be allowed to publish anything.

    Get Jason's stuff.

    PS: remember that in learning there's no such thing as copy-paste a technique. Be aware of self improvement through personalization, but without getting off the road.
     
    Houston Curtis and ParkinT like this.

  15. Why do you say that about Madison? He has his own successful BD, it's just different. It's also more consistent in terms of grip from seconds to bottoms etc. than most others.
     
  16. Foundations all the way. Jason is one of the best teachers, a well respected card mechanic and a real gentleman.
     
    Gabriel Z. likes this.
  17. I've played in true high stakes poker games for years. Ive been around the block, played for millions of dollars and I can tell you...Daniel Madison has NOT! He is a capable magician, and he is good at coming up with card tricks. But he doesn't like to admit to being a magician...instead he portrays himself as this mysterious ex card cheat who is now sharing his incredible deception technique with those willing to pay. I've seen the mechanic dvd and half of it is utter rubbish that would get you killed at a card table. The way he arrogantly dismisses the second deal, the way he puts down England (without saying his name) and the way he boldly dismisses the advice of Vernon is just ridiculous. The biggest deception this guy has ever pulled off is being able to deceive would be magicians into thinking he is legit.

    I doubt he has ever played a single hand in a true high stakes poker game in his life. I've seen what its like to be under pressure in a cash game with over 3 million dollars on the table...and I can promise you...this guy would buckle and run for cover! Steve Forte, Jason England and Richard Turner would chew up DM in a heart beat.

    Go buy Jason Englands Foundations or Steve Forte's Poker Protection series if you want to know how pro's do it! Or get Erdnase, Expert at the card table! ...Oh...and while you are at it, learn how to play cards too! Doyle Brunson's Power Poker is a good place to start! If you are already a pro...you can pick out what is good and bad on the madison DVD. But if you want to learn from the best, don't start there! There is more wrong about it than right, I promise you.

    DM...anytime you wanna play cards...call me up!
     
    ParkinT likes this.
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