Negative Feedback From People

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lightlyrow, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. Hello.

    I've shown some people at my school the magic, and a lot of people are saying that trick is soooo obvious or along those lines.

    Any tips on how to deal with people like that? Just ignore them or is there something I can say to them that will make them shutup?

  2. Are they heckling you, or is the trick really obvious?
    Remember, you need to create a Performance for the audience, not just do a trick. The performance will make them forget about the actual mechanics, as well as any need for heckling. However, if someone is being a douche just to be a douche, either give them the spotlight for just a bit (through your performance), or own them without acknowledging them (you need to be pretty good at comebacks and make sure you aren't insulting the audience, or calling them out). I also keep an impromptu trick ready in my mind specifically for hecklers. Something easy to do, that you can do while being grilled, and still get great reactions.

    Honestly though, if they are giving you actual feedback, it means you should work on the trick and the performance - whether they are heckling or not.
    HectorE1 and FunkyBottoms like this.
  3. Git gud. :p

    I kid but in all honesty, you may really want to reflect on three critical questions in your performance: 1. What you are performing? 2. How you are performing it? 3. Why you are performing it?

    Question one is probably the easiest to answer. So many people have learned card tricks to try and pick up girls. Try to avoid anything that Stuart Edge, DisturbReality, or any of that lot has put out on YouTube because chances are someone has revealed it and laymen have came across that video in their recommended feed. Don't do magic that is obvious. I know that may seem like such a simple statement but you can't assume your laymen are dumb. Do magic that is clever and fresh,

    My next question is how are you performing these effects. Are you well practiced into your routines? Heck, are you even routining them for that matter? All of this is important when presenting magic. Are you presenting your skills as a matter of a challenge to your spectators or rather something that includes them into a plot that you want to share? You may really need to spend some time reflecting on how you are presenting your magic.

    Lastly, and most difficultly, is why are you doing magic? Why are you at your school with a deck of cards? Why are you there with sponge balls and cups or what have you? Justify everything you do when you are presenting magic. That is such a key and critical component of getting the audience to have their guard down. If you can justify why you are doing anything at all you are already winning. Focus on finding magic you can justify in performing. I know this is sort of an abstract concept so I will try to give an example. Take for instance shoe laces. Practically everyone wears them at some point or another and you are perfectly justified in having them on in school. Another instance that often occurs is shoelaces come undone and often without us noticing. All of this your standard affair that does not look out of the ordinary. Where you will strike is when someone calls attention to your shoes such as "Hey, your shoes are untied." That is when you play up your acting abilities and act surprised then magically have your shoelaces tie themselves using Self-Tying Shoelaces by Jay Noblezada. From there you will have there attention since they will probably ask questions and then you could follow up with the next logical effect that makes sense such as Linking Laces by Paul Harris.

    To break it down you must start with why you want to do and why you will perform magic where ever you are choosing to perform. That is the first step and first question you must answer. Once you have that answered you will be able to form a set list and then begin practicing. This will answer the question of how you are developing the proper means of presenting these effects you have planned out. Lastly, check if what you are performing still fits into being unique and inclusive rather than obvious or combative. If it's any of the latter two then go back to step one and adjust your presentation to where you have the best fit for you.

    Good luck!:D
    FunkyBottoms and Maaz Hasan like this.
  4. To start, first I would listen to what other people are saying, and in particular try to determine if it truly is obvious. If that's the case, then I'd refine my performance. However, some people resent being fooled, and as a result they will often claim they weren't to save face. To that, there is nothing that really can be done that will keep the spectator from being humiliated if they're called out in public. In this situation, I'd recommend refining your performance and privately ask the people claiming it to be obvious to explain how it was.
    FunkyBottoms likes this.
  5. I agree with almost everything, except for this.
    I think it might just be the wording, not specifically what you had in mind, but I'm going to put this out there so he knows what to look for if he does go on YouTube. The chances of someone running across the in depth magic world on YouTube is actually pretty slim if they don't already appreciate magic and are in to it a lot (especially with YouTube's new content policy :p). Yeah, I would definitely be hesitant to perform most things taught by Stuart Edge, Disturb Reality (both of whom watch ever since I realized I just don't enjoy Stuart's content, and Jarek's channel became trash after I started doing magic. And just look at it now. I legitimately cringed thinking about it...), hell even a handful of stuff by Jay Sankey & Chris Ramsay (due to the fact that every once in a while, you get a trick that you're like... WTH? and not in a good way). But the YouTubers who are going out of their way to actually teach you performance style, go in depth on moves not just complete tricks), and have a set teaching etiquette that they will actually use are going to help you. All in all, if you have someone teaching you a trick, it might not be worth it, but if it is someone who consistently puts out a certain move or principal with the correct teaching methodology, possibly paired with a trick, you will definitely not regret that due to the fact that you are actually getting something out of it, not just a trick.

    One thing I would add though, is that no matter what trick you end up performing, you need to do it right. Otherwise, the performance sucks, the memory sucks, the feedback sucks, etc. The only time you will really be "caught" is when you don't make a captivating performance, and this is with any trick, no matter how big or small.

    You have to truly take into account if what they're saying is true, or they are just being hecklers. If 1 person says it, meh. If 4 or 5 people say it, I would revise it.
  6. Go on almost any magic video shared on the major networks on Facebook and read the comments. Almost everyone in the comments goes on about how something like French Kiss or Healed and Sealed 2.0 "isn't magic because I saw how it was done on YouTube". You don't have to be heavily into magic in order to have it revealed to you in today's world. That is why magicians need to be more unique and innovative now more than ever before.
    HectorE1 and FunkyBottoms like this.
  7. Oh yeah, for sure, but that doesn't mean every trick on YouTube is seen.

    But at the same time, these tricks wont be exposed by the YouTuber's whom I am talking about in my post (the second group, the ones I suggest people actually do pay attention to), nor would a serious student of magic actually watch the "EXPOSED!!1!" videos. This is why I put in depth in bold, because the things that get a lot of quick views are the EXPOSED videos, which are not really part of the in depth magic world.Further more, the tricks are generally "exposed" so poorly that you can make a great performance and avoid getting caught. Take a look at Dan White's performance of French Kiss on The Tonight Show. Everyone in the audience, and most watching at home, were intrigued. In fact, I knew he was going to perform it and I still got lost in the performance. Now obviously, none of us are Dan White, but we can all get performances to that level.

    Finally, if you take a trick off of YouTube and perform it straight up, like a "Raw" version, it'll suck. You need to cook it by working on it, and then season it with your own style. Then you gotta present it well, a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶o̶p̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶e̶n̶d̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶t̶ ̶e̶n̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶a̶ ̶m̶e̶m̶e̶.̶
    FunkyBottoms likes this.
  8. Thanks for all of your opinions.

    I'll consider all of them, especially making the tricks I do more unique and making sure I don't do the tricks at the people, and make it more like they're included in the trick.
    FunkyBottoms likes this.
  9. Don't just ignore them. Listen to what they say about your trick (if they aren't lying) and accept the fact that your trick is probably too obvious. Just take it as a feedback from what your friends think about the tricks, you sure don't wanna perform in front of a crowd and the realising that it is too obvious, do you? And probably ask your friends to perform the trick too, just so you know whether they could really see your sleights or not. But if they ask you to stop doing magic or things that could potentially demotivate you, those are the things that you should ignore.
  10. You have to be able to objectively look at it from their perspective and HONESTLY answer the question - is it really obvious or are they just being dicks?

    If it really is obvious, no amount of presentational efforts is going to make it better, you just need to practice.

    If you've got it down perfectly, then presentation could be your answer.
    Maaz Hasan likes this.
  11. Great responses one and all. I only have a few points to add that may be helpful:

    - Watch your angles! What very well may have been a solid performance all around by you MAY have been thwarted by one or two who got an angle on you, and in that case it would be "obvious" to those persons. Don't sell yourself short, just remember to cover your angles...which leads me to my second and last contribution

    - Consider your venue, and the number of spectators. Are you on a school bus? In a cafeteria? Those are venues where people just show up, shoulder look, wander over, etc, and suddenly you have 30 spectators. To use Maaz's example, French Kiss, particularly for someone without a lot of experience, is best done in an intimate setting with a few viewers, and your DL better be rock solid. The point of FK is to connect with one person. Even in Wayne Houchin's FK tutorial, he's out in public, but only has a handful of spectators at most in any example performance. I didn't see the Tonight Show performance, but I'd lay odds he didn't have but 1-2 people within arms reach.

    Lastly, not a point per se, but don't let a few knuckleheads looking for a pat on the back or trying to steal the moment get you down. Use all the great answers you received here, apply the wisdom, be honest with yourself on your own abilities (especially be sure you're performance and skills required are "public ready"), and go knock em dead!!

    Best of luck to you!
    Al e Cat Dabra and Maaz Hasan like this.
  12. Take feedback as constructive and ask them "why is sucked" If their response is "because it wasn't good," then perhaps you need to work on the story or presentation. If they say something like "i saw the two cards when you said you only had one" then you know you need to work on the technique. If they don't know why it sucked but are just busting your chops, maybe take it with a grain of salt...
    HectorE1 and Al e Cat Dabra like this.
  13. Middle school and high school are probably not the best place to show magic. Most of your fellow students are all trying to compete for social standing. Often magic is (intentionally or unintentionally) presented as "I'm going to trick you." In a typical performance situation, that translates into the spectator being tricked or fooled if they don't figure out how it is done. No spectator wants to be a fool and no magician wants the spectator to figure out how it is done. Nobody wins in that situation. In school, that presentation translates into "I have knowledge or ability that you don't" and conveys the idea "and therfore I'm superior to you." People react to that by saying, in essence, "no your not!" Something to think about.
    HectorE1 and Al e Cat Dabra like this.
  14. I have to disagree with this. That doesn't really happen, at least not anymore. I perform a ton at my high school, and once I started working on my presentation, I didn't get any sort of those reactions anymore. Furthermore, I have found that once you break into high school (in today's time) nobody gives a crap about popularity anymore. Seriously. You just wanna have fun and make friends... and survive through your classes.

    The fact that people are asking me to perform when there's an off minute, including people I barely know, and the fact that they actually enjoy being entertained makes school a great place to perform once you practice your craft.

    Yea, if you present it like "I'm better than you", than the performance will suck, and so will the reactions. However, if you work on a nice presentation and just be a nice person, people will love your performance.
    Josh Mickelson likes this.
  15. I don't know what high school you go to but it sounds like nothing I've ever heard of in my life.

    My senior year in high school was the only year that I didn't get made fun of for magic and I'd been interested in it since like 4th grade (though magic wasn't the main reason I was a target. I still don't know why I was. Perhaps because I was a small dude?). Middle school was the absolute worst to a point where I was experiencing medical issues due to stress levels that were generally only seen in adults. I battled with suicidal thoughts for a very long time as well and still have self esteem issues in my mid 20s. Things didn't get any better in high school.

    To this day I think that the only reason I didn't experience this in my senior year was because I transferred to the alternative school (because of bullies and stress levels and suicidal thoughts). I genuinely believe all of those kids had it rough in their lives and for that were more understanding and empathetic towards others. I'm truly grateful for that year in school. The rest of it was a complete nightmare.
    Maaz Hasan likes this.
  16. I suppose what I was getting at was that I have to agree with @RealityOne - it's definitely possible that school just may not be the time or place to perform. I spent that time practicing and after high school was when things started to really work for me.
    Maaz Hasan likes this.
  17. I honestly feel so bad for you! I'm glad you made it through it and are still here with us today! I truly hope you can get through stuff!

    Anyways, Middle School is horrible, just because everyone is a piece of immature scum with no social etiquette. However, In my own experience, I have found that in high school, guys tend to mature. I was able to fit in easily because I found a ton of people with common interests such as sports, and somehow the nerdy side of life (like complexly useless science, as well as physics, for whatever reason) (not magic), and just a few genuinely nice people. It might be because of the age of the internet, and the fact that we as today's highschoolers can understand what someone is going through or coming from, and can find other common interests more easily. Furthermore, magic is significantly more popular today than it was 40, 30, 20, hell even 5 - 10, years ago. In fact, I think most kids actually enjoy watching magic in the modern day due to the popularity of it on things like AGT, P & T, even David Blaine's specials.

    Whatever the reason, I am really glad to be a part of the "post-millennial" generation of High Schoolers, simply because it is so easy for us to learn from people who came before us, and thus allows us to make connections easier with people. I think that modern high school is probably a lot more different than anything more than maybe 4 of 5 years ago.

    Oh and that thing I said about popularity is really true. No one gives a crap. It's hard to explain, but it's true.
  18. I really appreciate that and I'm in a much better mental state these days! I'm super glad to hear about your experience in school too! It does sound much different than when I attended and I graduated in 2011. I would've honestly performed MUCH more back then if school would've been like you describe.
    Maaz Hasan likes this.
  19. Thanks, all of you!

    Any tips on how to present card tricks without seeming like you're showing off?
    I think that when I perform tricks I may be coming off a bit like I'm trying to be a show off.
  20. This tells me a lot about you and your social life.

    Engage the audience, elevate them with the performance so they gain social value by participating. Create a script that's more than just dictating what the props are doing. Make the audience feel good about what they're seeing and they'll never want to tear you down.
    obrienmagic likes this.

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