Omg... Criss Angel
- Thread starter William Draven
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Seems like quite the bated statement/question. Im not a fan but that's based on specifics that I've seen and stories directly from some that shall remain unnamed, who have actually worked with him. Im sure this thread is meant to prove a specific point rather than to just vent in a single statement but im sure it will generate discussion. No matter how people feel about him it should be known and respected that it is THEIR OPINION as opposed to fact. I may not like his personality from the distance that I've been exposed to it but as an artist who has accomplished so much I DO respect him!! Im interested to see what this thread was intended for and the discusion it creates. Wether you love him or hate him, its great that we have a place where we can discuss such topics openly.
To be honest, I've never really had an issue with Criss Angel. However, I did dislike his "autobiography", as he came across as kind of arrogant and douchey, and it was pretty much a 200 page advertisement for his TV show.
Beyond that, though, I don't see why he garners such a negative reaction from the magic community.
Beyond that, though, I don't see why he garners such a negative reaction from the magic community.
Personally, I find the persona he created rather annoying. Trying far too hard to be "badass" and all edgy. It ultimately comes off as fake and over produced to me. That said, he does seem to pull off some cool stuff and is generally entertaining. There are a lot of people who like and appreciate that kind of personality in an entertainer. I like the subdued and laid back approach myself but can't fault the guy. He did get his own TV show after all. 
I see your point, I also have noticed that the "which cards/effect is best" threads get a lot more views and responses. Don't think your threads go unnoticed. I do admit that I read your threads but don't really reply other than a "thanks for sharing" only because I personally don't feel I have the knowledge/experience to contribute info on some subjects so for the most part I just enjoy the read and soak in the information. Personally, I would really prefer the forums be filled with informational threads or performance stories rather than which is best type.
I'm sure that there is a name for this sort of thing William. Just can't think what it is.
Personally I am a professional. I printed off your lecture notes that you now have on the wire when they were on the forum (and I found them late so spent a while tracking them all down!) and they have helped me greatly. The problem, if you consider it a problem could simply be that a lot of people on this forum are young teenagers who do this for fun for their friends in school or college, and therefore do not look at the 'boring' businessy stuff posted on here as it does not interest them, whereas a heated debate about a marmite magician (you either love it or hate it) will get reactions as it relates more to them.
You have been a big help to me whilst I have been on these forums and have definitely helped me to flourish in my business and for that I thank you, but many people here are more bothered about the next trick coming out than wanting to make their hobby into a business.
Simon_Magic
Personally I am a professional. I printed off your lecture notes that you now have on the wire when they were on the forum (and I found them late so spent a while tracking them all down!) and they have helped me greatly. The problem, if you consider it a problem could simply be that a lot of people on this forum are young teenagers who do this for fun for their friends in school or college, and therefore do not look at the 'boring' businessy stuff posted on here as it does not interest them, whereas a heated debate about a marmite magician (you either love it or hate it) will get reactions as it relates more to them.
You have been a big help to me whilst I have been on these forums and have definitely helped me to flourish in my business and for that I thank you, but many people here are more bothered about the next trick coming out than wanting to make their hobby into a business.
Simon_Magic
I understand venting frustration. I too have posted replies in the forums that I understand could be viewed as being a bit abrasive. Humor and sarcasm is hard to get across via text so im sure that only adds to the problem. That being said I feel that from my knowledge of you through your posts, this seems a little off. (Warning: this is only my opinion) This comes across to me as being quite condscending. There are THOUSANDS of people on these forums and to insinuate that most all of them are below your level of intelect does seem quite abrasive and condescending. Truth is I only check the forums from time to time and I DID see your post about getting gigs. The only thing is, Im not concerned with getting gigs. Many people on this site do it only for hobby. I have one or two places that from time to time want me to stroll around and do magic for their customers and/or events but I am fine with just those gigs because the owners are my friends and Im not trying to make a full time career out of magic and mentalism. Your knowledge and experience on this site are well respected and appreciated but the thing about "growing" is that we all do it at our own pace and we are all at different points in our "growth." Im sure this post is DEFINITELY not the best representation of you so I choose to take this simply as frustrated venting although I WOULD like to see you give a little more credit to the other members of this site. Just because something you posted did not resonate with the members who happened to check the forums around the time you posted it, does not mean that most of the members on this site are somehow intellectually inept.
I think you seem like a pretty great guy and I know this is just you venting so I will just say, I look forward to reading your posts in the future! Whether they resonate with the readers or not, it is not a reflection of their intelect, it is just a reflection of what intrests them. Please don't lose faith! We all love reading your posts...its just sometimes there are smaller niches on certain topics.
much love and respect sir!
You can't ask more from 10 to 16 year olds. Most of the users of this forum open THE SAME ****ING topic once every 2 days, some of them being:
"What is the best reaction you got"
"What should I learn next"
"Would you buy my **** if I post it to the wire"
"Please give advice" (and posts a ****ing headless video doing the pass or the clipshift over and over again, OUT OF ANY CONTEXT)
These forums have accumulated a ****load of valuable advice, directions and thoughts from real workers. If the moderators don't merge, redirect and close the repeating threads, ANY good post will be buried in a matter of days. Since ignorance prevents the kids from using the Search function, they should be directed to do so. By the way, every time I tell someone not to be lazy and search the forums I get bashed by 13 year old ass-kissers which don't have a clue about the subject anyway.
Thank you for the experiment, William.
"What is the best reaction you got"
"What should I learn next"
"Would you buy my **** if I post it to the wire"
"Please give advice" (and posts a ****ing headless video doing the pass or the clipshift over and over again, OUT OF ANY CONTEXT)
These forums have accumulated a ****load of valuable advice, directions and thoughts from real workers. If the moderators don't merge, redirect and close the repeating threads, ANY good post will be buried in a matter of days. Since ignorance prevents the kids from using the Search function, they should be directed to do so. By the way, every time I tell someone not to be lazy and search the forums I get bashed by 13 year old ass-kissers which don't have a clue about the subject anyway.
Thank you for the experiment, William.
Funny how I should post after Liderc, he's more of a ghost than I am, and one of the few people I still enjoy conversation with on forums. Good to see you sir.
Will, I know what you mean, I used to try to post what I thought was worthwhile theory on the forums, fact is - as stated earlier - the users of this forum really aren't of the working magician class. I'll try to respond more often to your threads Will, I do appreciate your input - of course.
Case and point- look at The Wire, instead of your ebook being at the top of the list it's a ripoff mental magic effect, the reviews literally brag about how easy the effect is, how little effort people are putting into learning it and one review even says it's original. That says more than I can say about this forum.
Will, I know what you mean, I used to try to post what I thought was worthwhile theory on the forums, fact is - as stated earlier - the users of this forum really aren't of the working magician class. I'll try to respond more often to your threads Will, I do appreciate your input - of course.
Case and point- look at The Wire, instead of your ebook being at the top of the list it's a ripoff mental magic effect, the reviews literally brag about how easy the effect is, how little effort people are putting into learning it and one review even says it's original. That says more than I can say about this forum.
So let me get this straight. You were frustrated with not getting reactions on the forum, so you posted something inflammatory specifically for a reaction? That's called trolling.
Not to start a fight, but are you not familiar with internet forums? Sometimes you can post the most interesting, thought-provoking, original ideas, and get crickets, and then you post "WHO LOVES JELLYBEANS?!", and get a hundred responses. That's the nature of the beast.
As for bashing the teenagers and "n00bs", remember that everyone has to start somewhere. If you are looking for pure maturity and professionalism, then you're not going to get that on an open membership forum. If you want to start a paid forum for pros only, then that's the only way to insure that you'll get the audience reactions you want.
Not to start a fight, but are you not familiar with internet forums? Sometimes you can post the most interesting, thought-provoking, original ideas, and get crickets, and then you post "WHO LOVES JELLYBEANS?!", and get a hundred responses. That's the nature of the beast.
As for bashing the teenagers and "n00bs", remember that everyone has to start somewhere. If you are looking for pure maturity and professionalism, then you're not going to get that on an open membership forum. If you want to start a paid forum for pros only, then that's the only way to insure that you'll get the audience reactions you want.
A longer reply to you is coming sovex but for now:
I think I've earned my right to troll every once in a while on this forum. I don't see how you of all 9 posts to your name are in any position to call foul on me.
Secondly I'm not really trolling, I'm making a statement.
Lastly I'm not calling ANYONE a noob. I have always been in the corner of the neophyte and the student of magic. Do not attempt to put words into my mouth!
I think I've earned my right to troll every once in a while on this forum. I don't see how you of all 9 posts to your name are in any position to call foul on me.
Secondly I'm not really trolling, I'm making a statement.
Lastly I'm not calling ANYONE a noob. I have always been in the corner of the neophyte and the student of magic. Do not attempt to put words into my mouth!
Ah, flaunting the post count. So you DO know how forums work! 
Anyhow, I'm not trying to bash you personally or professionally, but I call troll when I see trolling happen. Yes, I'm new here, and I come for advice and reviews and the like. However, I've been around the internet for quite some time, and I've been on several boards like this, for whatever topics. Seeing someone being negative and complaining about the other board members is a definite turn-off, and it makes me wonder if I've picked the right board to frequent.
The noob bashing retort may be more directed at other responders than to the original statement. Just think though of where I'm at vs. where you're at with this hobby. You might see the hundredth 13 year old posting a Youtube video, and be frustrated, but it might be completely new to me.
Again, like I said, the only way you're going to get an even playing field is to restrict the forum, and that's not really fair for the new folks who really could learn something from you.
But then again, I have 9 posts, so what do I know? Oh wait, that's 10!
Anyhow, I'm not trying to bash you personally or professionally, but I call troll when I see trolling happen. Yes, I'm new here, and I come for advice and reviews and the like. However, I've been around the internet for quite some time, and I've been on several boards like this, for whatever topics. Seeing someone being negative and complaining about the other board members is a definite turn-off, and it makes me wonder if I've picked the right board to frequent.
The noob bashing retort may be more directed at other responders than to the original statement. Just think though of where I'm at vs. where you're at with this hobby. You might see the hundredth 13 year old posting a Youtube video, and be frustrated, but it might be completely new to me.
Again, like I said, the only way you're going to get an even playing field is to restrict the forum, and that's not really fair for the new folks who really could learn something from you.
But then again, I have 9 posts, so what do I know? Oh wait, that's 10!
I wish. How are you not bashing him? You called his effect an unoriginal ripoff mentalism trick.
Basically, you took a pot shot at him it seems. If you care to explain further, I'll listen.
I didn't take it personally, either. I was letting you know it made you look unprofessional by bashing a professional on some forums. That's all.
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