On the day the magic died...

[Shodan]

"The art of magic is deteriorating/dying". It seems that in a significant proportion of topics on these, and other, forums, some sentiment like this is expressed.

I would like to pose the question: based on what evidence?

I would also like to gently suggest that the word "youtube" isn't really relevant to the discussion.

 

[jimbowmanjr]

I would disagree with the notion that magic is dying or deteriorating at this point. For some to see magic evolve or incorporate newer technologies that could be perceived by the old guard as magic deteriorating.

I think there are problems that likely have no feasible solution within the magic world but it's hardly deteriorating simply because of a few bad apples.

--Jim

 

[SHANE BLACK]

Magic is more alive then ever before.

 

[Shodan]

I'm inclined to agree Jim, although I get the impression that most magicians expressing this opinion tend to be made by the younger generation, rather than the "old guard", who from what I can tell, seem fairly content with their lot.

Perhaps of more concern is the scary amount of commas in that last sentance of mine!

 

[jimbowmanjr]

I'm inclined to agree Jim, although I get the impression that most magicians expressing this opinion tend to be made by the younger generation, rather than the "old guard", who from what I can tell, seem fairly content with their lot.

Perhaps of more concern is the scary amount of commas in that last sentance of mine!

I call it the "Chicken Little Phenonenon" Shodan =)

Then again when the sky really does start falling I will certainly put on my hard hat...

--Jim

 

[Close-Up Expert]

Magic is hardly dieing. Keep in mind there is a whole other world of magicians away from Theory11 and Ellusionist. Both companies represent just a tiny fraction of magic as a whole, and those that make an opinion from just these 2 forums are limiting a good portion of other sources.

Best.
Steve

 

[copperfield 14]

Magic has never been better. People just don't want to face it.

 

[Deleted member 2755]

I disagree, however, I think there are more problems with the art due to things such as DVD's being revealed. Well... that fad is somewhat slowing down thankfully. I haven't really seen any "Factory Sealed revealed" videos on Youtube yet thankfully. However, it does exist and people do things like rip DVD's and put them online. Luckily, books are another story. Sure, people do upload books online... however they are harder to come by. So things in DVD's are being pirated quite a bit, but I have noticed a steady decrease in revealed videos. However, they do exist, some are still being made, and some people actually upload the DVD's on the internet, but that's piracy for ya.

Books, you never see reveal videos because most revealers as someone said in a different thread I created similar to what I'm talking about now said that revealers don't want tor read. The main problem is that people do put the actual books online.... but again they are harder to come by.

Anyway, I think it's great though what is happening with magic. If it weren't for Ellusionist's marketing style, I would not be involved with magic. My brother got me a bit interested... then Ellusionist's hype rising trailers really made me go for it.

Now there are many young magicians like myself getting into the art. Most will buy either 1 or a bunch of DVD's and realize work is involved.... more than they thought would originally be involved. These people quit, but then there are those that stay with it and move on past the DVD's and start getting into books.

These people mature and maybe buy a DVD here or there. (I'm guilty of buying Witness, Panic, and soon Control, however I don't regret my past 2 purchases and I doubt I'll regret Control. T11 DVD's are worth it for single trick DVD's. (Plus Control teaches a stop watch too.)) I don't plan on quitting magic anytime soon as I have now built up relationships with people I never thought I would, I have done things that I wouldn't consider possible, and magic overall is a great ice breaker, way to meet people, and makes me more social in so many ways. Plus cards are like crack for my hands. I love having a deck in my hands. Whenever I'm in a bad mood... or if I'm home and not with friends... I'm doing magic. It has really become a life style for me.

Magic has changed my life. I don't play so much video games anymore. Now I have 54 good friends to practice with. (Well thats not corny.) Magic is only getting better. It is at a higher peak than ever before. So while I don't like the hype all that much because it makes things look better than they actually are.... well it helps people like me really get involved in something bigger than they ever thought they would.

Cerca Trova

-Doug

 

[AceOfSpades2662]

Magic has changed so much from when Houdini was doing Straight-Jacket escapes with men in suits standing all around him to now when David Blaine is walking around the street to people in t-shirts performing 2 card monte. Nothing against either of those magicians who are both fantastic performers, but they each have such unique styles. I don't think you can consider magic to be doing but more so evolving into something new. Newer styles, different tricks, bigger illusions, and harder hitting stunts. It has changed I would say but I would not say it is dying. It may be changing for the better or for the worse. Only time can tell.

Michael

 

[Aris.SA]

"The art of magic is deteriorating/dying". It seems that in a significant proportion of topics on these, and other, forums, some sentiment like this is expressed.

I would like to pose the question: based on what evidence?

I would also like to gently suggest that the word "youtube" isn't really relevant to the discussion.

Without reading the posts above..

For you what does ''the art of magic'' or ''magic'' means?

 

[ThrallMind]

Magic isn't deteriorating. If anything, there is a boom. David Blaine, Criss Angel, and Derren Brown have all brought magic into mainstream view. Magic is cool and no longer geeky, as it were.

With this comes a price, though. Whenever something becomes popular, everyone wants to do it. They believe that because they do something popular, they themselves can become popular. This is why there are so many videos of people performing effects on *big gasp* YouTube. That being out of my system...

Ive been performing magic since I was 7, and Ive been a member of the IBM since I was 10. I'm now 22. Sadly, during the end of High School and some of college, I had a falling out of magic (trust me, this is going somewhere...). However I am back now because I felt a part of me was missing. When I stopped, there was no magician who was afraid to get their hands dirty. Going to the magic shop and buying a packet trick to perform was fun. Things which required setup were not looked down upon. Moreso, props, gimmicks, and the like were not considered "n00bish."

Magic now, at least with those who are starting to get into it are falling into the instant gratification pit. They want an effect. Not any effect, it must be street magic. It must be something great that will fools everyone. And oh yea, if the setup is more than 10 seconds, it isn't a good effect. I've seen people turn down great effects because there was a bit of setup. It kills me to see this. It must also deal with cards, coins, or something that everyone has on them. As when I started, I had to attend lectures, go to Magic meetings at my local IBM ring, and learn off of homemade VHS' that I bought directly from the creators (reminding me of when I ran in late one night after class in Middle School to my magic shop to to hear Lennart Green speak) or from a magic shop. Now, though I am not complaining in the least, we have instant downloads and online ordering. This means many people who were previously unable to gain access to knowledge of magic now has very easy access.

I am not at all saying every new magician falls into this pattern of thinking. I am just saying a lot of younger kids who are starting out do this. Ive seen posts over at other magic sites of people getting annoyed they bought an effect, and it had setup. Or asking if an effect requires setup and if it does, they do not want to touch it. Also, performing an effect without being able to fool yourself in the mirror and do it in your sleep was unheard of when I started. Now, it seems as soon as they memorize how to do an effect, they believe its time to. Just out of curiosity, who still practices their sleights in the mirror?

Anyway, even with all of this, we can keep magic strong. An effect without practice or patter designed to fit you is nothing. It's a copy. However, if you take an effect, practice it until you dream about it, and design your own patter, the same effect little bobby performed on YouTube that got no reactions will gain you great reaction because you put time into it and made it yours.

Anyways, just my .02

-ThrallMind

 

[Dominus Magicus]

Although I'm not old enough in magic to be making much opinions, I would say that the whole "magic is dying" thing is part due to two things.

1. Since the invention of the internet and mass-communication, magic has been easier to spread. However, with this, more and more people learn, forcing us "regular magicians" to do less and less, until we have almost nothing left to do (eventually...maybe). Effects eventually become old, which leads me to....

2. I think that people are starting to feel like magic is becoming too old. Like, so many of our great effects from age-old have been released into the public, and now they are "old." I mean, when you go out to buy effects, what do you buy? Something like the ones sold here, or a saw in half illusion?

In my opinion, I say that for those people who are saying magic is dying, what we should do is create a whole new part of magic. Not just one or two effects, but create an entirely new form of magic, or a new theory of magic (heh, theory 12!)

Eh, I don't know, I'm probably wrong. BUT, the idea of creating an entire new form sounds exciting....

 

[Deleted member 2755]

Although I'm not old enough in magic to be making much opinions, I would say that the whole "magic is dying" thing is part due to two things.

1. Since the invention of the internet and mass-communication, magic has been easier to spread. However, with this, more and more people learn, forcing us "regular magicians" to do less and less, until we have almost nothing left to do (eventually...maybe). Effects eventually become old, which leads me to....

2. I think that people are starting to feel like magic is becoming too old. Like, so many of our great effects from age-old have been released into the public, and now they are "old." I mean, when you go out to buy effects, what do you buy? Something like the ones sold here, or a saw in half illusion?

In my opinion, I say that for those people who are saying magic is dying, what we should do is create a whole new part of magic. Not just one or two effects, but create an entirely new form of magic, or a new theory of magic (heh, theory 12!)

Eh, I don't know, I'm probably wrong. BUT, the idea of creating an entire new form sounds exciting....

I think there is always room for innovation. I don't have a right to talk about my opinion of this subject as I stated earlier as I have not been a magician for several years like a lot of people, however, I stand by my statement as I feel it is a valid point.

A new theory would be amazing. A new form of magic would be killer. (Yes... I said killer.) However, what is left to do? Well, that is limited by one's imagination.

As for many effects being sold to the public, I do agree with this statement as it is true, I can't argue with that sadly. However, you can honestly do the same trick with cards and/or coins and make it seem like something completely different by either doing a variation (like different handling) and/or having a different presentation.

People will be impressed with magic no matter what effect you do. Why? Because most people haven't seen every trick in the world. Sure, tricks such as Stigmata which are huge can be amazing and stick with them possibly for the rest of their lives, however, the average person will forget all card tricks they saw within a week. People may be talking about it for a while, but wait about 2 months and ask if they remember the trick you did. They may remember it, but they probably wont.

Normally I would say something about your point that says "Since the invention of the internet and mass-communication, magic has been easier to spread. However, with this, more and more people learn, forcing us "regular magicians" to do less and less, until we have almost nothing left to do ", but I have no idea what you mean. Please expand.

-Doug

 

[THEGUY26]

The day magic died was the day Criss Angel was born.

 

[Shodan]

Interesting thoughts. I too wonder where these sentiments that "magic is dying!" come from - there's magic on tv, on stage, in restaurants and bars, on the streets and just about everywhere in between. Magic is making it's mark in the movie industry like never before, with big budget, star-studded casts turning out films based on magicians and magic on a fairly regular basis.

Online exposure was brought up and I think this has a lot to do with the origin of this sentiment - regular people learning the secret handshake, oh no!

The point I wish to make is that valid contributions have to have some kind of substance. Magic is dying? Where's the evidence? You want to give tips on performance skills/creativity? Where's the evidence that you're worth listening to?

There's a lot of "listen to me, I'm special!" vanity posting and it doesn't do anything for anyone. And these topics always deal with something big and vague - how can we push magic forward? Save the art? etc. Magic doesn't need you or I to do anything special, other than indulge our passion and be great magicians. There's no special "revolutionary" hat you can wear. We don't need special projects.

I would like to see les topics like this one (ah, the irony!) and more which wil acually prove useful to the participants.

 

[robotsunshine]

That was a great post, Shodan

The "magic is dying" threads pop up every few weeks in various forums, and they all follow the same formula:

"Magic is dying! Youtube and exposure! Oh no!"

"When was the last time someone ACTUALLY called you on a trick thanks to Youtube?"

"Wednesday."

"Oh."

"Magic isn't dying, it's stronger than ever!"

"I hate Criss Angel!"

"Well, that was fun."

And that's where we end. Nothing is accompolished, we've just repeated someone else's discussion.

No one proves themselves (me included =P), no one actively attempts to repair the problems they talked about. The best we get is someone saying, You need to make an emotional impact with your audience!, but they don't explain how to do that, or show any evidence that making a card rise to the top can be profound art with the right patter.

The next thread like this needs to be full of videos of different, unique performances of all sorts.

That's how you solve whatever's wrong. Perform.

 

[velvetxdreamer]

I do not believe magic is dying...it is only getting stronger. People no longer think of men in black capes with rabbit filled top hats but they think of the strong willed, powerful minded, intellectual, persistent, entertaining, hard working, mystery making, fun creating community of young illusionists working with experienced magicians to create a whole new level of effects, illusions and plain out magic. It isnt a novelty anymore...it isnt disregarded anymore....it finally gets the respect it deserves.....the respect we as magicians, illusionists, mentalists, hypnotists or all of the above deserve......respect.
Magic isnt dying man.....its just getting started

 

[copperfield 14]

Magic has never been better, and Criss Angel, David Blaine, David Copperfield and all the magicians in Vegas and T.V are making it bigger.