Peter Popoff?

[Magic Man4293]

This is a pretty interesting conversation.


Now I do believe in God because it makes just as much cense to believe that an all powerful being has been around forever opposed to energy that had to think and evolve forever, also if you base your decision on Pascal's wager alone your better bet is to believe in God.

But this is not the time or place for that kind of argument. As for Petter Popoff just about anybody who uses deception and calls it God or the supernatural realm will get followers. Because people who do believe in God will believe anybody who claims to believe in God i.e. John F Kennedy one of the worst US presidents who got voted in on one key point...HE WAS CATHOLIC. So all any con artist has to do is be the shepherd and the sheep shall follow. Remember that just never be the wrong kind of shepherd.


-Michael

 

[Steerpike]

But this is not the time or place for that kind of argument.

Which makes me wonder why you felt the need to bring it up in the first place. Word of advice: stop sleeping through science class.

John F Kennedy one of the worst US presidents who got voted in on one key point...HE WAS CATHOLIC.

Your woeful ignorance of Kennedy's election and 1960's politics aside (not that either surprises me), you're really tempting fate with remarks like that.

So all any con artist has to do is be the shepherd and the sheep shall follow. Remember that just never be the wrong kind of shepherd.

The 48 Laws of Power. Law #27. Play on people's need to believe to create a cult-like following.

 

[lunatic core]

This is a pretty interesting conversation.


Now I do believe in God because it makes just as much cense to believe that an all powerful being has been around forever opposed to energy that had to think and evolve forever, also if you base your decision on Pascal's wager alone your better bet is to believe in God.

But this is not the time or place for that kind of argument. As for Petter Popoff just about anybody who uses deception and calls it God or the supernatural realm will get followers. Because people who do believe in God will believe anybody who claims to believe in God i.e. John F Kennedy one of the worst US presidents who got voted in on one key point...HE WAS CATHOLIC. So all any con artist has to do is be the shepherd and the sheep shall follow. Remember that just never be the wrong kind of shepherd.


-Michael

Wow.... I was still reeling back from your first comments when you started in on JFK. Amazing.... like a one, two punch. Wow...

 

[Magic Man4293]

Which makes me wonder why you felt the need to bring it up in the first place. Word of advice: stop sleeping through science class.



Your woeful ignorance of Kennedy's election and 1960's politics aside (not that either surprises me), you're really tempting fate with remarks like that.



The 48 Laws of Power. Law #27. Play on people's need to believe to create a cult-like following.

Hmmm maybe you should stop sleeping in science class where they slowly are teaching CREATIONISM.

Kennedy being catholic is not the only reason he won it is a major reason.

Reading the makings of the president does not make you an insider on the Kennedy/Nixon race.

Law #9. Win through actions not through argument.

-Michael

 

[lunatic core]

Hmmm maybe you should stop sleeping in science class where they slowly are teaching CREATIONISM.

Kennedy being catholic is not the only reason he won it is a major reason.

Reading the makings of the president does not make you an insider on the Kennedy/Nixon race.

Law #9. Win through actions not through argument.

-Michael

Dude JFK almost lost because of his religion, and is not even close to being considered one of our worst presidents. Arguing that is stupid anyways since he only had a half term to work with. I won't bother with your religous comments because this thread will be nuked. Edit: just wanted to point out that was your 666th post.

 

[Steerpike]

Hmmm maybe you should stop sleeping in science class where they slowly are teaching CREATIONISM.

Creationism is not science, so please do not presume to lecture me. The scientific method does not change to accommodate the psychoses of religious fundamentalists who got elected to a school board. Those people are not scientists, and neither are you.

Kennedy being catholic is not the only reason he won it is a major reason.

Kennedy was an Irish Catholic. That demographic was perceived as unelectable in that time period.

Kennedy won not because of his religion or his ethnicity, but because he galvinized his base and appealed to America's youth to recapture the pioneer spirit. He set himself up with a David and Goliath story, since even his own party was against him. And he utilized the medium of TV in a way that no other candidate ever had to connect with the voters.

This is why I love being educated. I can reference facts instead of making things up.

Reading the makings of the president does not make you an insider on the Kennedy/Nixon race.

Studying 20th century politics, sociology, and history does.

Law #9. Win through actions not through argument.

Law #3. Always say less than necessary.

I know there's no hope of you ever admitting you're wrong. You're under 18, which means like everyone else your age, you're possessed by a towering arrogance. You've made that abundantly clear to me since you attacked me back in January. I'm simply setting the record straight should anyone be confused by the misinformation you're so intent on spreading.

Moving right along, anyone else care to pitch in a comment about the dark side of the psychic industry?

 

[Magic Man4293]

Dude JFK almost lost because of his religion, and is not even close to being considered one of our worst presidents. Arguing that is stupid anyways since he only had a half term to work with. I won't bother with your religous comments because this thread will be nuked. Edit: just wanted to point out that was your 666th post.

Hmm I didn't even notice that. Figures since it was a response to Steerpike. Anyway we could go on about politics and religion all night. But this is not the time nor place, which you were sensible enough to realize.

Back to the matter or Peter Popoff. It seems like anybody who makes themselves seem like they are doing the work of God will get a following. Thats why Christians in general get a bad rap.


-Michael

 

[Randy]

He'll most likely continue to screw people over no matter how many times James Randi or anybody else proves 100% that he is a fraud.

 

[Steerpike]

He'll most likely continue to screw people over no matter how many times James Randi or anybody else proves 100% that he is a fraud.

Most likely. The man is a natural-born predator.

I find it rather... depressing that I have continually referenced that there is a way for skeptics to make a difference and help more people... and yet no one has asked me to elaborate. It's easier to be offended than to do something about it.

 

[Magic Man4293]

Creationism is not science, so please do not presume to lecture me. The scientific method does not change to accommodate the psychoses of religious fundamentalists who got elected to a school board. Those people are not scientists, and neither are you.



Kennedy was an Irish Catholic. That demographic was perceived as unelectable in that time period.

Kennedy won not because of his religion or his ethnicity, but because he galvinized his base and appealed to America's youth to recapture the pioneer spirit. He set himself up with a David and Goliath story, since even his own party was against him. And he utilized the medium of TV in a way that no other candidate ever had to connect with the voters.

This is why I love being educated. I can reference facts instead of making things up.



Studying 20th century politics, sociology, and history does.



Law #3. Always say less than necessary.

I know there's no hope of you ever admitting you're wrong. You're under 18, which means like everyone else your age, you're possessed by a towering arrogance. You've made that abundantly clear to me since you attacked me back in January. I'm simply setting the record straight should anyone be confused by the misinformation you're so intent on spreading.

Moving right along, anyone else care to pitch in a comment about the dark side of the psychic industry?

Hmmm the funny thing is you never act like this on the E forums. Fist of all you have no proof of my age.

You are wrong and ignorant Kennedy did win because of his religion.

Law #5

So much depends on reputation. Guard it with your life.

In general you are the laughing stock of the forums. Why? Because you don't know when you have lost. And now you have lost.


-Michael

 

[lunatic core]

Most likely. The man is a natural-born predator.

I find it rather... depressing that I have continually referenced that there is a way for skeptics to make a difference and help more people... and yet no one has asked me to elaborate. It's easier to be offended than to do something about it.

Well then elaborate... I doubt I will hear you through my blown mind. I didn't think a fundi card magician was possible. Isn't that dabbling with the occult and gambling?

 

[DannyT]

Most likely. The man is a natural-born predator.

I find it rather... depressing that I have continually referenced that there is a way for skeptics to make a difference and help more people... and yet no one has asked me to elaborate. It's easier to be offended than to do something about it.

How can skeptics make a difference and help people?

 

[Steerpike]

In general you are the laughing stock of the forums. Why? Because you don't know when you have lost. And now you have lost.

Mike, if you want the last word that badly, just say so.

If not, say something useful to the discussion about faith healers and other charlatans that illuminate the dark side of the psychic/miracles industry.

 

[Randy]

Ironically if the Feds were able to bust Ms. Cleo for fraud they might be able to bust all these other hacks.

Or they can get em with something like tax evasion or something.

 

[aJohnson]

I went to "An audience with James Randi" at the Blackpool convention and he talked ALOT about this and listening, I just think it's ridicules people would even believe these so called "healers". I find it disgraceful.

 

[Randy]

You have to take into consideration that these people are desperate and will likely look for help in any which way they can. It's the way the human mind works. Most people in times of distress are more willing to give everything up in order to get healed.

Yes, these guys suck and the other thing is people don't think HE is healing them, but that HE is doing it through God.

There are ways to stop these kinds of people, but unfortunately as the old saying goes "There's a Sucker born every min." They will continue to stay in business.

 

[Steerpike]

Well then elaborate... I doubt I will hear you through my blown mind. I didn't think a fundi card magician was possible. Isn't that dabbling with the occult and gambling?

I'll elaborate momentarily. Let me first say about your stunned revelation to our resident fundie that truth is often stranger than fiction.

How can skeptics make a difference and help people?

So glad you asked.

Let me first state that I'm in an interesting position. I'm a skeptic, but I'm not a cynic. I'm actually a Romantic. Not a combination most people would think of. I think that's where my perspective was born from.

As I said before, skeptics burn security blankets and slaughter sacred cows. Sometimes they don't do this directly. Guys like Ian Rowland who are obvious cynics instigate it. But a true skeptic does these things incidentally simply by the fact that they demand to be proven wrong with empirical evidence and proof. Often, such proof cannot be provided. To people who concede that they cannot empirically prove their beliefs and must take them on faith, we tend to let sleeping dogs lie.

In the process of destroying these icons of comfort, skeptics create a void that most make no attempt to then fill. We destroy that which people take solace and meaning in, and then leave them on their own, cold and alone groping for meaning in an indifferent world.

I'm about to evoke a name that's going to stir up some harsh reactions. Uri Geller. About 10 years ago, give or take, he performed a stunt on Israeli television to move the needle of a very large compass toward his fist. His sleight of hand was sloppy to say the least. Very easy to catch on camera, especially if you have a rough idea of what to look for. But there was something he did that was very interesting.

He failed the first time. He then had the entire studio audience, some of the crew, and the people on stage with him join hands into on giant circle. They tried again, chanting in unison, and when Uri tried to the stunt once more, it worked.

Before I continue this little exposition, what do you think my point was in telling that story?

 

[Randy]

He used his reputation and their faith to pull the trick. I remember and old clip of James Randi bending a spoon on TV and the news anchor just laughed at him, like "yeah, whatever."

 

[Steerpike]

He used his reputation and their faith to pull the trick. I remember and old clip of James Randi bending a spoon on TV and the news anchor just laughed at him, like "yeah, whatever."

You're looking in the wrong direction and from the wrong paradigm. Uri's success cannot be attributed alone to a desire to believe.

What he did in that television studio that actually has given him a level of success that few magicians or mentalists will ever achieve is that he took audience participation to a new level and empowered them. They believed in his supernatural powers, yes. But he also drew them into the experience by making them feel that they helped create that moment.

The skeptic can use that principle. I have with great success.

You can't eliminate people's need to believe in something. But you can turn it into something constructive.

I have found that it is perfectly possible to debunk a fraudulent psychic and disillusion a believer, but then to take the source of their faith in that psychic and turn it inward into something positive and empowering.

 

[Magic Man4293]

Mike, if you want the last word that badly, just say so.

If not, say something useful to the discussion about faith healers and other charlatans that illuminate the dark side of the psychic/miracles industry.

My name is Michael not Mike. And I don't want the last word I want to put you in your place which I have. Also if you read my first post it was very informative.


-Michael