Philosophy Deck Design: Looking for Feedback

Jul 31, 2012
11
0
Hello, everyone! I am new to the Theory 11 Forums and the online playing card community in general, so I will start with a brief introduction. My name is Martin Pulido, and like most here, I love card games (as well as board games). I've run a blog for the playing card game BANG! for over a year now and created various expansions for it. I have recently wanted to get back into drawing and design, and so I created a project for myself: to create a deck of philosophy themed playing cards. I have always loved studying philosophy--it's fun to explore our lives and the world we live in, look for justifications (if any) for our deeply held beliefs, and it also creates great late night conversations. In making a deck about philosophy, I wanted it to be (1) aesthetically pleasing, (2) thought provoking, and (3) functional. An ambitious goal.

Through much deliberation, I determined to organize the suits according to philosophical time periods: spades (ancient and medieval philosophers), diamonds (modern philosophers: 16th-18th c.), clubs (contemporary analytic philosophers: 19th - 21st c.), and hearts (contemporary continental philosophers: 19th - 21st c.). Each card suit also has a unique card face background, highlighting ideas taught by philosophers in the specified time period. These backgrounds are gray or a faint red on white depending on the suit, and I hope help in suit identification. I prefer the white backgrounds/borders as they limit damage from scuffing (or so I believe; maybe I am wrong?).

Each card contains a personally hand-drawn and then vectorized and digitally finished portrait of an important philosopher. I tried to find the most famous depiction of the philosopher, regardless of the medium (sculpture, drawing, painting, photo, etc.) and then redraw it to have a more consistent look across the cards. Many design decisions were tough: I looked up in biographies to discover the hair color of many philosophers, but with ancient philosophers, I just had to arbitrarily decide. I also had to make decisions on clothing.

Since each card, versus just the court face cards, portrayed a specific philosopher, I chose not to include pips. I tried to include some "micro pips" that went vertical up and down the sides of the portraits, but I found these to be too busy and not very appealing. I recognize that this will be a downside for the pip enthusiasts. 12-16 philosophers, however, didn't seem to cut it for the deck, so I had to make a call, which ended up being a lot more work for me! Maybe it was a bad one.

The next step was to make the cards "thought provoking." I concluded to include a quote from each philosopher that wasn't loaded with jargon, so it could be understood by the layman. I also tried not to pick quotes that were (a) cliche, (b) made funny trite statements but said little philosophically, (c) made little sense out of context (Nietzsche's "God is dead" for instance), (d) ridiculed the philosopher by making his ideas appear impossible to understand (Heidegger's statement "The nothing itself nothings" is often used in this respect), or (e) were too religious (this deck is about philosophy, not theology). This required lots of reading, careful selection, and revision to get the right quotes. One of the consequences of including quotes such as these was the inability to have the philosopher's art be symmetrical. My design decisions will make this deck definitely a novelty piece, but I can't see a "thought provoking" philosophy-themed deck being done another way well (very subjective claim, I know). Perhaps it shouldn't have been done at all, then? Maybe.

Anyway, here are some samples of the art: 2 cards from 3 of the suit.

cardspreview6.jpg

cardpreviews8.jpg

cardspreview5.jpg

That should give you some idea of the style of the cards I have gone for and substantiate what I claimed about the design above. As for the backs, I have been debating between two designs: (1) a smaller version of a tuckbox art piece that I created. (2) a colored version of the famous Flammarion wood engraving of a man peering into the "true" universe beyond appearances. For the tuckbox, I chose to recreate a section of Raphael's famous School of Athens piece. I kept Plato and Aristotle at the forefront of the piece, but replaced the figures around them in Raphael's version with philosophers from later eras (Bertrand Russell, Immanuel Kant, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Friedrich Nietzsche, etc.). I think the piece turned out quite nice, but the artist is usually biased! So I could use that art piece on the card backs or use the flammarion piece. Here is an example of the 2 options with their horizontal orientation:

cardpreviews10b.jpg

So on to my feedback questions:

(1) Which back should I use (if any of those 2)? Alex over at Aether Cards has suggested creating a symmetrical back for card game and magic applications, and I think he is probably right. Your thoughts?

(2) What do you think of the overall design? Do I succeed at making the deck aesthetically pleasing, thought provoking, and functional? While I had to make definite trade offs between those different goals, is it overall satisfactory? What suggestions would you make that align with those goals?

(3) Given the non-traditional format of these cards, would anyone besides myself be interested in this deck? I imagine a few philosophy geeks might appreciate them, but would anyone else? Does it have any wider "promise"?

(4) Any other suggestions?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
May 9, 2012
202
0
New York
I do love the back design on top and i dont think it matters if you have symmetrical backs because anyone who buys these will just want them for the novelty. but i'll be honest, as a magician and someone who plays cards reguarly, i wouldn't be interested in them. that doesn't mean they dont have promise. that just my own opinion.
 
Hello, everyone! I am new to the Discourse and the online playing card community in general, so I will start with a brief introduction. My name is Martin Pulido, and like most here, I love card games (as well as board games). I've run a blog for the playing card game BANG! for over a year now and created various expansions for it. I have recently wanted to get back into drawing and design, and so I created a project for myself: to create a deck of philosophy themed playing cards. I have always loved studying philosophy--it's fun to explore our lives and the world we live in, look for justifications (if any) for our deeply held beliefs, and it also creates great late night conversations. In making a deck about philosophy, I wanted it to be (1) aesthetically pleasing, (2) thought provoking, and (3) functional. An ambitious goal.

Through much deliberation, I determined to organize the suits according to philosophical time periods: spades (ancient and medieval philosophers), diamonds (modern philosophers: 16th-18th c.), clubs (contemporary analytic philosophers: 19th - 21st c.), and hearts (contemporary continental philosophers: 19th - 21st c.). Each card suit also has a unique card face background, highlighting ideas taught by philosophers in the specified time period. These backgrounds are gray or a faint red on white depending on the suit, and I hope help in suit identification. I prefer the white backgrounds/borders as they limit damage from scuffing (or so I believe; maybe I am wrong?).

Each card contains a personally hand-drawn and then vectorized and digitally finished portrait of an important philosopher. I tried to find the most famous depiction of the philosopher, regardless of the medium (sculpture, drawing, painting, photo, etc.) and then redraw it to have a more consistent look across the cards. Many design decisions were tough: I looked up in biographies to discover the hair color of many philosophers, but with ancient philosophers, I just had to arbitrarily decide. I also had to make decisions on clothing.

Since each card, versus just the court face cards, portrayed a specific philosopher, I chose not to include pips. I tried to include some "micro pips" that went vertical up and down the sides of the portraits, but I found these to be too busy and not very appealing. I recognize that this will be a downside for the pip enthusiasts. 12-16 philosophers, however, didn't seem to cut it for the deck, so I had to make a call, which ended up being a lot more work for me! Maybe it was a bad one.

The next step was to make the cards "thought provoking." I concluded to include a quote from each philosopher that wasn't loaded with jargon, so it could be understood by the layman. I also tried not to pick quotes that were (a) cliche, (b) made funny trite statements but said little philosophically, (c) made little sense out of context (Nietzsche's "God is dead" for instance), (d) ridiculed the philosopher by making his ideas appear impossible to understand (Heidegger's statement "The nothing itself nothings" is often used in this respect), or (e) were too religious (this deck is about philosophy, not theology). This required lots of reading, careful selection, and revision to get the right quotes. One of the consequences of including quotes such as these was the inability to have the philosopher's art be symmetrical. My design decisions will make this deck definitely a novelty piece, but I can't see a "thought provoking" philosophy-themed deck being done another way well (very subjective claim, I know). Perhaps it shouldn't have been done at all, then? Maybe.

Anyway, here are some samples of the art: 2 cards from 3 of the suit.

cardspreview6.jpg

cardpreviews8.jpg

cardspreview5.jpg

That should give you some idea of the style of the cards I have gone for and substantiate what I claimed about the design above. As for the backs, I have been debating between two designs: (1) a smaller version of a tuckbox art piece that I created. (2) a colored version of the famous Flammarion wood engraving of a man peering into the "true" universe beyond appearances. For the tuckbox, I chose to recreate a section of Raphael's famous School of Athens piece. I kept Plato and Aristotle at the forefront of the piece, but replaced the figures around them in Raphael's version with philosophers from later eras (Bertrand Russell, Immanuel Kant, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Friedrich Nietzsche, etc.). I think the piece turned out quite nice, but the artist is usually biased! So I could use that art piece on the card backs or use the flammarion piece. Here is an example of the 2 options with their horizontal orientation:

cardpreviews10b.jpg

So on to my feedback questions:

(1) Which back should I use (if any of those 2)? Alex over at Aether Cards has suggested creating a symmetrical back for card game and magic applications, and I think he is probably right. Your thoughts?

(2) What do you think of the overall design? Do I succeed at making the deck aesthetically pleasing, thought provoking, and functional? While I had to make definite trade offs between those different goals, is it overall satisfactory? What suggestions would you make that align with those goals?

(3) Given the non-traditional format of these cards, would anyone besides myself be interested in this deck? I imagine a few philosophy geeks might appreciate them, but would anyone else? Does it have any wider "promise"?

(4) Any other suggestions?

Personally I don't understand the theme of the deck, although I don't particularly like it, I'm sure there are people who love it. If this is aimed to be a collector's item, then its great due to its very unique design. But if you have made this deck for flourishers, magicians etc then its not going to be a very popular deck, because of the 1 way faces and the non-simplistic back design.

With saying this I don't mean to be rude nor mean, I'm just being "Cruel" to be "Kind". Also I have a question will you be selling this on Kickstarter, or through another website?

So with all of my opinions and questions said/asked, I wish you the best of luck and a congrats on the fantastic idea
 
Jul 31, 2012
11
0
Thanks for both of your opinions! I appreciate the time you took to review and respond to my design.

@PurpleMustache:

Out of curiosity, are you not interested in the deck due to the theme, the text heaviness, or just the design in general? It is nice for me to know the reasons why it lacks appeal to some audiences.
I have sat and pondered about how to create some 2-way designs and still accomplish what I want for the deck. After messing around on my computer, I threw together some mock-ups for some vertically symmetrical faces, as well as ones that included pips. The image below shows some of the possibilities I am exploring to help the cards be more palatable to those that want pips or want the symmetrical cards (the original is in the top left for comparison's sake):

2sidedvariants.jpg

Are any of these more appealing in terms of concept? Or is the original, though one way, still superior?

@TheMagicianInvisible:

Your comments were just fine! I didn't think they were cruel at all. Sad that others must have responded negatively to your fair-minded criticism in the past.

(1) The theme: I guess I wasn't clear. The theme is western philosophy, and the deck cards showcases western philosophers and their ideas.

(2) The audience and the appeal of the design: I figured that the deck would mainly appeal to philosophy enthusiasts, but I wondered if there might be a wider audience. That's why I have been looking for tips to improve the design so it can be as broadly appeal as possible. Do you think the 2-sided face cards worked any better? As for the back, I plan on using the Flammarion engraving of the man peering into the universe, but adjusting it so that it is vertically symmetrical. I will try to extract the sun from the side, remove its face, and have that in the center of the card separating the 2 landscapes. I wonder if that will be an improvement.

(3) Selling platform: I am not sure yet. I have been assessing interest to decide if it is worth the effort. Kickstarter is always a possibility once the design is tweeked.
 

CaseyRudd

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I love the newest back design! I think it fits the theme of the deck really well - you should definitely keep it. I also think something you could change is add a solid white border, or a smokey white border that you see on Bee Stingers. Because I also think that the face of the cards, specifically the design in the background, also makes up the deck in a unique way. Instead of the background design on the face cards go to the very edge, there can also be a smokey white border that fades into the design. I feel that aesthetically it will be more pleasing to the eye. Let me know what you think!
 
Jul 31, 2012
11
0
Hey Casey, I am glad you like the new back. As for the white border, I will definitely do that. How thin would you suggest it being? And doing a fade gradient on the border alternatively shouldn't be a problem. If I ever get this funded and printed on a Bee stock, I will have to do it!

As for the fronts, I am still partial to the original one way design. I do like the top far right one with the micro pips somewhat though. Any thoughts?
 
Jul 31, 2012
11
0
I thought of a more minimalist design idea that is fully symmetrical that you may or may not like:

(1) Removed the quotes.
(2) Replaced quotes with key ideas of the philosopher, such as William James' "stream of consciousness." The key ideas are placed in the background replacing the old abstract idea collages. They repeat all across the card. I arranged the text boxes of the key ideas so that they are symmetrical. NOTE: I am thinking of still using those collages, but working them into the aces.
(3) Kept the philosopher art and made it two way.
(4) In between the philosopher art I placed pips that are vertically symmetrical.
(5) Names of philosophers either read vertically down the card sides (my preference) OR are in the background text.

Here is an example:

2sidemin.jpg


What do you think? I am sad to see the quotes go, but something is still learned about the philosopher this way and the design is more conducive to playing cards while also less complicated.
 
Jul 31, 2012
11
0
I wanted to start a poll. I wanted to get votes on the best overall design for the card fronts since I have been getting feedback. I have nine designs below for you to choose from. I have already widdled down the results based on feedback I have gotten from the playing card and philosophy communities.

finaldesigns.jpg


I would greatly appreciate it if:

(1) You listed the number you liked most (ie, 7).
(2) You stated whether you would buy a deck (this helps me prioritize the results; i definitely take all under consideration--as should be apparent by now--but I should cater more to those actually interested in getting a deck).
 
Jul 31, 2012
11
0
Well, it is pretty obvious at this time that the one way art design is preferred, since it is by a definite majority (75% of those polled). Looks like I got it right from the outset. Preferences are pretty evenly divided between #7 and #8. If #8 is chosen, many people suggest 2 quotes. I will probably end up with 2 paraphrased statements instead, but I honestly don't mind that. I think I am leaning in that direction.

Now that the design is decided, I still have some questions on the court cards and aces, and how to make them unique. For the aces I was thinking I could inscribe the art within the suits, in something like this:

acesa.jpg


I could of course make them slightly more ornate, but my cards might be complicated enough at this point.

As for the court cards, I think I could add a border, either just on the top and bottom, or all around. The border could try to contain classic card elements, such as having the Jacks border have spears/halberds, king having swords, and queens having flowers. The suit could also be in the border. Any other ideas come to your mind?
 
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